Zombie The Coronavirus Financial Thread (Personal, Local, National)

[Phatguysrule]

So, why do you think that is? It's mostly because such items need to be mil. spec'd and each has it's own drawing which must be maintained. I saw this on Boeing airplanes that were built for the military. Also, such items cannot be built to civilian standards because aircraft space when in use is expensive. You don't want a broken toilet seat when flying a nuclear mission.

Bingo. Maintaining traceability is critical in many applications and its incredibly expensive.

There is as much, or more waste in the corporate world as there is in government.

 

[tlongII]

Bingo. Maintaining traceability it critical in many applications and its incredibly important.

There is as much, or more waste in the corporate world as there is in government.

LOL. That's laughable.

 

[Phatguysrule]

LOL. That's laughable.

Look no further than our healthcare system compared to other government run systems which see as good or better results than ours at a fraction of the price.

 

[Hoopguru]

So, why do you think that is? It's mostly because such items need to be mil. spec'd and each has it's own drawing which must be maintained. I saw this on Boeing airplanes that were built for the military. Also, such items cannot be built to civilian standards because aircraft space when in use is expensive. You don't want a broken toilet seat when flying a nuclear mission.

A Kohler toilet and seat you but at Home Depot would be adequate for flying a nuclear mission.

 

[tlongII]

Look no further than our healthcare system compared to other government run systems which see as good or better results than ours at a fraction of the price.

That has nothing to do with waste. There is no incentive for efficiency in government. That’s why there’s so much waste.

 

[Hoopguru]

I used to deal with state agencies with procurement and they operate on one annual goal. If we dont spend our fiscal year budget regardless, we wont get it, and/or an increase next year. Ive seen stock piles of expensive equipment that were purchased to use their budget.

 

[Phatguysrule]

That has nothing to do with waste. There is no incentive for efficiency in government. That’s why there’s so much waste.

Huh? There is tons of waste in our healthcare system. Wasted time, effort, equipment, etc.

And there is tons of incentive for waste in the corporate world.

I get that you're repeating what you've heard from "fiscal conservatives" but they've been proven to spend more on private industry than even democrats spend on government.

It's a nice idea that corporations are actually lean and mean, but it's just not reality.

 

[tlongII]

Huh? There is tons of waste in our healthcare system. Wasted time, effort, equipment, etc.

And there is tons of incentive for waste in the corporate world.

I get that you're repeating what you've heard from "fiscal conservatives" but they've been proven to spend more on private industry than even democrats spend on government.

It's a nice idea that corporations are actually lean and mean, but it's just not reality.

I never said there was no waste in corporations, but there is far less than there is in government. That is a fact Jack. The incentive in the corporate world is shareholder return. Obviously waste does not improve shareholder return.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I never said there was no waste in corporations, but there is far less than there is in government. That is a fact Jack. The incentive in the corporate world is shareholder return. Obviously waste does not improve shareholder return.

Of course it does. Why wouldn't it? Waste is written off as a loss which means they pay less tax, but can then be turned into profit later.

Heck, Trump (and many others) made millions on scams like that with real estate...

Every company does that kind of thing. Even the company I work for with 25 employees scraps stuff out and bills for loss all the time. Then turns around and profits off of the "scrap material" anyway. Or just throws the material away...

The corporate world is just as bad as government. Our system is set up to encourage it.

 

[barfo]

I used to deal with state agencies with procurement and they operate on one annual goal. If we dont spend our fiscal year budget regardless, we wont get it, and/or an increase next year. Ive seen stock piles of expensive equipment that were purchased to use their budget.

Lots of corporate departments work on the same budget scheme. It's not just government.

barfo

 

[barfo]

I never said there was no waste in corporations, but there is far less than there is in government. That is a fact Jack. The incentive in the corporate world is shareholder return. Obviously waste does not improve shareholder return.

I'm afraid that there are lots of employees in corporations who do not put shareholder return first, just as there are lots of government employees who do not put 'taxpayer return' first. People have a variety of incentives, intentional and unintentional, explicit and implicit.

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

Lots of corporate departments work on the same budget scheme. It's not just government.

barfo

Sure they all have fiscsal year budgets, but they also know inventory, turns & cost of doing business as a percentage of sales. And if they are not profitable and managed well they will lag or go oob.

 

[Hoopguru]

Lots of corporate departments work on the same budget scheme. It's not just government.

barfo

What State or Fed agency do you work for?

 

[barfo]

Sure they all have fiscsal year budgets, but they also know inventory, turns & cost of doing business as a percentage of sales. And if they are not profitable and managed well they will lag or go oob.

Right, and is it efficient to go out of business?

For example, let's consider the case of Quibi. Raised $1.75B, was out of business 6 months later.

Waste, or shareholder return?

Failed business ventures litter the landscape - literally.

barfo

 

[barfo]

What State or Fed agency do you work for?

Next time I work for the government will be the first time.

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

Right, and is it efficient to go out of business?

For example, let's consider the case of Quibi. Raised $1.75B, was out of business 6 months later.

Waste, or shareholder return?

Failed business ventures litter the landscape - literally.

barfo

I get, so how does a State or Federal agency go out of business/shut down for lack of performance? Or do they?

 

[tlongII]

Of course it does. Why wouldn't it? Waste is written off as a loss which means they pay less tax, but can then be turned into profit later.

Heck, Trump (and many others) made millions on scams like that with real estate...

Every company does that kind of thing. Even the company I work for with 25 employees scraps stuff out and bills for loss all the time. Then turns around and profits off of the "scrap material" anyway. Or just throws the material away...

The corporate world is just as bad as government. Our system is set up to encourage it.

A company that relies on losses to pay less taxes will not last very long so I disagree with your position.

I'm afraid that there are lots of employees in corporations who do not put shareholder return first, just as there are lots of government employees who do not put 'taxpayer return' first. People have a variety of incentives, intentional and unintentional, explicit and implicit.

barfo

Sure there are. But employees in corporations have more incentive to put shareholder return first as it generally aligns with their reviews. The incentive for government employees to operate efficiently and productively does not exist in general.

 

[Phatguysrule]

A company that relies on losses to pay less taxes will not last very long so I disagree with your position.

You don't have to lose money on the year to write off a loss... See hospitals. See Donald Trump. Etc, etc, etc...

Sure there are. But employees in corporations have more incentive to put shareholder return first as it generally aligns with their reviews. The incentive for government employees to operate efficiently and productively does not exist in general.

This is a nice idea. However, in reality it doesn't work out that way. Most employees (including managers) don't care about saving the company money or mitigating waste.

As long as the paperwork checks out they're good with it. In fact, waste often makes the numbers look better.

 

[tlongII]

You don't have to lose money on the year to write off a loss... See hospitals. See Donald Trump. Etc, etc, etc...



This is a nice idea. However, in reality it doesn't work out that way. Most employees (including managers) don't care about saving the company money or mitigating waste.

As long as the paperwork checks out they're good with it. In fact, waste often makes the numbers look better.

Uh, no.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Uh, no.

Have you worked for a government agency?

 

[tlongII]

Have you worked for a government agency?

Uh, no.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Uh, no.

Then your opinion is full of shit.

 

[barfo]

I get, so how does a State or Federal agency go out of business/shut down for lack of performance? Or do they?

Well, the way is they get defunded (no, not the police) or merged with other agencies or whatever.

But that's kind of my point. Government has to live with their failures - they 'count'. Governments don't go out of business, at least not in the US (yet?).

Those that want to hold business up as more efficient conveniently forget about the many billions of dollars wasted on failed corporate ventures.

The fair comparison to government is to take all corporations, successful, less successful, failed, together. And determine how 'efficient' and productive that amalgam is.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Sure there are. But employees in corporations have more incentive to put shareholder return first as it generally aligns with their reviews. The incentive for government employees to operate efficiently and productively does not exist in general.

Are you of the belief that government employees don't have performance reviews?

barfo

 

[tlongII]

Are you of the belief that government employees don't have performance reviews?

barfo

No. I’m of the belief that their reviews do not promote efficiency to the degree corporate reviews do.

 

[tlongII]

Then your opinion is full of shit.

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[tlongII]

If you haven't worked for government your opinion is full of bias. Hence, full of shit.

You work for Nike bro. I could tell you some stories I have heard about that place. But, I have never worked there.

So according to you if you haven’t worked for the government you cannot make a statement that private industry is more efficient than the government?

 

[tlongII]

You don't know how hard government workers work. You have never been in that world. Yes, there are some that don't work to their full potential. I've seen the same shit in the corporate world. Multiple times.

You can make a statement. That statement is just biased and full of shit.

Private industry is predicated on competition. Government is not. I’m not saying people in government don’t work hard. I’m saying that efficiency is not a prerogative.

 

[HailBlazers]

My SO has worked a government job for years. They told her not to go above and beyond because it's above her pay grade.

 

[tlongII]