"The Debate"

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Obama's hardly the first incumbent to have a horrible first debate. Often though the second is a different story. Should be interesting.
 
Nothing really happened in this debate.

Neither provided great substance, and both called each other out multiple times. It seems Romney is getting the victory because of his body language and tone.

The fact checkers are out in full force right now. We'll have a better idea what actually happened tomorrow.
 
RoyToy said:
Nothing really happened in this debate.

Neither provided great substance, and both called each other out multiple times. It seems Romney is getting the victory because of his body language and tone.

The fact checkers are out in full force right now. We'll have a better idea what actually happened tomorrow.
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Haha.

Just as I said earlier. The "objective fact-checkers" will put their spin on what was clearly a disaster for Obama. Problem is, this debate was a slaughter, and there is n way "fact checkers" can make it a win for Obama, because people go back to their lives tomorrow.
 
I'll tell you what I saw: Romney is more hungry for the office. Obama has been living in the real world for 4 years.
 
julius said:
cept that history says otherwise...
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Or maybe not!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxpayer_Relief_Act_of_1997

well, for starters, saying that you're going to lower taxes by 20% does equal about 5 trillion. Hate to break that to him. And just saying "no, I'm not going to cut taxes" doesn't make it true.

Secondly, the election won't solely be decided on the economic debate.

But remember, Kerry 'won' the 1st debate in 2004 too. Look how well that worked out for him.

side note: It's interesting to think about how Romney didn't really embrace the right wing of the party, yet because of the blind drive to not have Obama in office, they don't seem to mind.

I don't necessarily think Romney had a great debate, I just think by comparison he had a great debate. Obama dropped the ball a TON, was passive and allowed Romney to run the debate. He didn't call him on any lies he made, and basically he sat there and took it.
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noknobs said:
Except I didn't hear very much substance from Romney either. It's pretty easy to just say the guy in charge sucks at his job and you've got a better strategy. But when you say you're going to cut 5 trillion in taxes for the wealthy and not add to the deficit, you can't just say I'll cut loopholes and reduce deductions to counter a $5 trillion tax cut. Tell me what loopholes and what deductions please. If Romney has a plan that would actually accomplish this I would think he'd be giving specifics 24/7, because that would make independents like me vote for him. I'm looking for a reason to vote for him but I need more than empty rhetoric.

Obama looked flat and like he didn't want to be there, and Romney looked like a man who'd say anything to get elected.

Tonight really cemented to me the fact that we don't have a good choice between the two.
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I don't know where this $5T number comes from. A 20% tax cut ACROSS THE BOARD that reduces revenues by $5T would mean that they expect $25T in revenues over the next 10 years (from income tax). Considering revenues from income tax without the cuts would not even be $2T (or 1/10th of $20T, still short of that $25T) in 2017 (after year 5 of the 10 years), I find the claim to be questionable at best (bullshit, outright lie) at worst.

I don't see why Romney should identify $5T (or whatever the real number is) in loopholes he'd eliminate. Him saying they're all on the table is an invitation to democrats and republicans in congress to take part in that decision. It's consistent with what he said about how ObamaCare got passed (a partisan vote, not a single republican). It's also consistent with him saying he wouldn't be signing a tax cut that wasn't revenue neutral. He actually said that.

I went to Romney's WWW site for the first time ever yesterday and found a PDF file that is 172 pages of his economic plan. I think if he were giving specifics 24/7, he'd come of as wonky as Obama. But the 172 pages are there for all to see.
 
Not that it means anything...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57525698/poll-uncommitted-voters-say-romney-wins-debate/

Poll: Uncommitted voters say Romney wins debate

(CBS News) By a 2 to 1 margin, uncommitted voters crowned Mitt Romney the winner over President Obama in the first presidential debate in Debate, Colo., on Wednesday night, according to a 500-person instant poll taken by CBS News.

In the moments following the candidates' performances on the University of Denver stage, 46 percent of voters gave the economy-centric debate to Romney, 22 percent said they believed the president was the winner, and 32 percent called it a tie. More good news for the GOP nominee: 56 percent of those polled said they viewed Romney in a better light after watching the debate. Eleven percent said their opinion of him dropped, and 32 percent cited no change in opinion.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/03/cnn-poll-romney-wins-debate-by-big-margin/

CNN Poll: Romney wins debate by big margin

(CNN) – Sixty-seven percent of registered voters who watched the debate said GOP nominee Mitt Romney won the debate, while 25% said President Barack Obama came out as the winner, according to a CNN/ORC International Poll released late Wednesday night.

For the survey, 430 adult Americans were interviewed by telephone after the end of the debate. The poll does not and cannot reflect the views of all Americans. It only represents the views of people who watched the event.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
@Jeff_Daniels: If any of the Moderators are unable to moderate the upcoming Presidential Debates, Will MacAvoy is available.
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What is it with these Sorkin series? First, Martin Sheen thought he actually was the President, now Harry Dunne thinks he's Walter Cronkite.
 
julius said:
Man Jim Lehrer is a bad moderator.
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I've thought he was very good in previous debates. He lost a bit of control, but I think he wanted more back and forth. Perhaps he wanted the chaos.
 
Denny Crane said:
I went to Romney's WWW site for the first time ever yesterday and found a PDF file that is 172 pages of his economic plan. I think if he were giving specifics 24/7, he'd come of as wonky as Obama. But the 172 pages are there for all to see.
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Thanks I'll check that out.
 
maxiep said:
I've thought he was very good in previous debates. He lost a bit of control, but I think he wanted more back and forth. Perhaps he wanted the chaos.
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I thought he tried to tee up some softballs for Obama early. When Obama didn't tee off on those, he just gave up.
 
Denny Crane said:
A mistake I see Romney has made a few times is saying he agrees with Obama on some things.
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I think it was intentional; trying to get some of the undecideds who voted for Senator Obama in 2008.
 
maxiep said:
I think it was intentional; trying to get some of the undecideds who voted for Senator Obama in 2008.
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I hate to quote DailyKOS, but he got it right.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...residential-debate-President-Obama-vs-Mr-47-6

6:44 PM PT: Romney almost makes a collosal mistake, initially saying he and Obama have the same plan on Medicare for people in the next decade. But he quickly realizes that would be a denial of his bogus $716 billion attack. So in the course of about 75 seconds he goes from saying he and Obama agree on Medicare ... to Obama is the worst person in the world on Medicare.

Got whiplash? I do.

6:46 PM PT: This split-screen really is not kind to Mitt Romney. And while I think he's generally been fairly composed during his speaking moments, he really hasn't laid down the seeds of any argument that will undermine or weaken Obama. And I really think he made a mistake with his Medicare answer, initially forgetting that he's supposed to say Obama is evil.
 
noknobs said:
Obama's hardly the first incumbent to have a horrible first debate. Often though the second is a different story. Should be interesting.
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Bingo. The challenger almost always has the advantage. President Obama will be much more agressive and much better prepared in the second debate. It's also a town hall format, which should be to the president's advantage.
 
Denny Crane said:
I thought he tried to tee up some softballs for Obama early. When Obama didn't tee off on those, he just gave up.
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The comment to President Obama where he said, "So, you're for a balanced approach" instead of saying "So, you're for increasing taxes along with reducing revenues" was cringeworthy.
 
545773_531594270188568_1479759273_n.jpg
 
maxiep said:
Bingo. The challenger almost always has the advantage. President Obama will be much more agressive and much better prepared in the second debate. It's also a town hall format, which should be to the president's advantage.
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How is that going to be an advantage for Obama? Unemployment is up under Obama, and the only positive in the presidency in terms of the economy is that the stock market is still paying off for those who can afford to play that game.

I know your m.o. here in terms of playing it even, but I put $200 where my mouth is, because I see Obama just falling apart in October once Romney finally shows that Barry isn't running against Bush. It was PATHETIC watching Obama bring up Clinton tonight, by the way. Nobody cares anymore, Barack.
 
I was intrigued that the President brought up pay-for-performance in terms of doctors and health care, but teachers' unions (as shown in Chicago and the Washington State races I'm peripherally following) being adamantly opposed to it. I know he said something about it in 2009, but if there has been more traction on it since then I haven't seen it. As I'm lazy, can someone tell me if PPACA has any merit-pay incentives or rules?
 
2008
19campaign.600.jpg

(That would be Portland!)

michelle_obama_crowd.jpg


2012

120819-obama-empty-seats.jpg


7268901318_f50310d7dc_b.jpg


7268984676_3ef1b9d4fa_b.jpg
 
maxiep said:
The comment to President Obama where he said, "So, you're for a balanced approach" instead of saying "So, you're for increasing taxes along with reducing revenues" was cringeworthy.
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Or, the open-ended "what is your approach" is better than the yes/no softball.

Lehrer was a joke, but Obama whiffed on softballs.
 
PapaG said:
How is that going to be an advantage for Obama? Unemployment is up under Obama, and the only positive in the presidency in terms of the economy is that the stock market is still paying off for those who can afford to play that game.

I know your m.o. here in terms of playing it even, but I put $200 where my mouth is, because I see Obama just falling apart in October once Romney finally shows that Barry isn't running against Bush. It was PATHETIC watching Obama bring up Clinton tonight, by the way. Nobody cares anymore, Barack.
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It is my hope that Gov. Romney will win, and I think he's the superior candidate. However, my concern is about people who don't pay attention (low information voters) and believe everything they hear and those who like "free" shit from the government.
 
PapaG said:
It's cute seeing you try so hard to prop up an incompetent President. Nobody cares about defunding PBS.
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First, I said that Romeny was winning the debate. First post in this whole damn thread.

Second, I've been posting humorous things I saw on twitter from both sides. You don't know a damn thing about my politics or beliefs so please don't try and label me.

And lastly, I rather enjoy PBS, I have contributed to it and would miss it if it were gone.
 
What impressed me most about Gov. Romney was his command of the salient facts. He prepared--I imagine--the same way he would prepare for a pitch to buy a company. Turn it inside-out, figure out the issues and be ready for any defense that may come up from management.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
First, I said that Romeny was winning the debate. First post in this whole damn thread.

Second, I've been posting humorous things I saw on twitter from both sides. You don't know a damn thing about my politics or beliefs so please don't try and label me.

And lastly, I rather enjoy PBS, I have contributed to it and would miss it if it were gone.
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88% of PBS funding comes from viewers like you. It would be OK with me if it were 100%.
 
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