The disappearing black middle class

[mook]

I imagine some of the problems with the black middle class is that it's tough to get there if you, mom or dad is in prison:

 

[maxiep]

I imagine some of the problems with the black middle class is that it's tough to get there if you, mom or dad is in prison:

In your mind is it a problem with societal racism or a problem with the choices many in black society make?

 

[mook]

In your mind is it a problem with societal racism or a problem with the choices many in black society make?

I think the larger issue is that a crap-ton of that growth in prison sentencing is for petty drug possession crimes. It's not societal racism that causes that--it's pandering politicians, a fear-based media, police unions, and of course privatized prisons which have created a profit motive to continue escalating the size of our prison system. It sure doesn't help that blacks still get treated like crap in a lot of areas by cops, prosecutors and judges, but I don't think that's the only deciding factor.

We have more people in prison per capita than ANY COUNTRY ON THE PLANET. 18% more than our nearest competitor (which is fucking Russia!) Look at the list and tell me it ain't absurd who dominates the top 10 rankings beside us: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita

Canada has 1/6th as many prisoners per capita as we do. Ditto for most other first-world countries.

So you take the moderate institutional racism that remains inherent in our system and you add in the massive multiplier effect of our gargantuan prison industry, and there you go.

If there's an upside to the disaster our economy is in, it's that both the states and the feds are finally starting to ask themselves the hard questions about what all this "tough on crime" bullshit is actually costing us, and getting for us.

 

[Denny Crane]

Decriminalization is coming, and when it happens I suspect a lot of people making an illegal living are going to have thriving legit businesses. Like when Prohibition ended, the bootleggers were able to form trucking companies.

 

[maxiep]

Walter Russell Mead weighs in: http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/07/12/obamageddon-coming-to-a-city-near-you/

 

[Denny Crane]

Is Obamageddon the new normal name for Obamanomics?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Will I be looked down upon here when I officially go on unemployment for the first time this fall? Already cancelled my wife and my health insurance. Is unemployment considered welfare?

No, b/c you paid for it. If you abuse it (not following the rules, not looking for work, etc.) then that's different.

Then again, I was looked on as a hypocrite for doing so, but hata's gonna hate.

Edit: Maxiep beat me to it.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Are the people being incarcerated being incarcerated illegally? Like, on trumped-up charges? Are innocent people in jail? If so, they should be let out.

Then again, if they broke the law, they can blame their poor decision-making. Maybe we can start cutting back by removing some of the benefits of being a prisoner. When a guy "robs" a bank so that he can go to prison and get a better life, something's wrong with prison life.

 

[Shooter]

There are jobs. There is no incentive to take a $900 a week job if you can get $900 a week in unemployment benefits for 99 weeks.

The longer you go without work, you lose skills.

You don't need capital to start a business. If you can mow lawns and have a lawn mower, you have a business.

If the govt. didn't regulate taxi cabs, all you'd need is a car and a map.

Absolutely right. There are jobs waiting to be taken, except people don't want them because they don't pay enough, or they're unpleasant, or somehow inconvenient. Why get a job when the government is going to pay you NOT to work for 99 weeks?

 

[Klinky]

Absolutely right. There are jobs waiting to be taken, except people don't want them because they don't pay enough, or they're unpleasant, or somehow inconvenient. Why get a job when the government is going to pay you NOT to work for 99 weeks?

Proof please.

 

[maxiep]

Proof please.

We have between 11-14MM illegal immigrants who came here precisely for that reason. Push them out, and fill their jobs in landscaping, crop picking and restaurant work with citizens.

 

[Masbee]

Absolutely right. There are jobs waiting to be taken, except people don't want them because they don't pay enough, or they're unpleasant, or somehow inconvenient. Why get a job when the government is going to pay you NOT to work for 99 weeks?

What part of 1,000,000 applicants for shit jobs at McDonalds tells you your OPINION has much basis in truth.

Some people have a mental block. Some of those that are priviledged and lucky just can't get over the fact that they are priviledged and lucky. They have to put it down to moral superiority or some other bullshit.

Yes Shooter you are right. Your are upright and superior and EVERY SINGLE PERSON who is unemployed is inferior, morally bankrupt, lazy, worthless scum.

 

[BrianFromWA]

It could be that Masbee's right and EVERY SINGLE PERSON who is unemployed is superior, morally pure, working as hard as humanly possible to find any job that will pay him/her, worthy humanity.

I think that it's probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[Minstrel]

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/11/06/unemployment-extension-adds-up-to-99-weeks-of-benefits/

“The probability that a laid-off worker will find a job grows smaller the longer people have been out of work, according to studies in the 1980s by economists Lawrence Katz of Harvard University and Bruce Meyer of the University of Chicago. […] Mr. Katz, Mr. Meyer and other researchers also have found that wages the laid-off can expect when they do find a new job also tend to be lower the longer they were without work.”

You have to be careful with what may loosely be categorized as "correlation studies"...in this case, correlating length of time out of work with likelihood of getting a new job. As we all know, correlation doesn't equal causation. Your implied point seems to be that being out of work longer causes not finding a new job (due to falling into a culture of not feeling one has to work and due to diminished skills). While the diminished skills factor probably has some bearing, the largest factor is probably that the longer people are out of work points to the greater severity of the economic recession. The worse the recession, the longer the lay-off. The worse the recession, the less the chance you find a new job (and, when you do, the lower the wages).

That would still provide the results that these researchers found (longer out of work -> lower chance of finding a new job), but in reality, both items would be caused by the economic climate rather one item causing the other.

 

[Minstrel]

Are there people collecting unemployment who could work? Yes. Same people (or the same sort) who were collecting unemployment when the rate was 5%.

It could be that Masbee's right and EVERY SINGLE PERSON who is unemployed is superior, morally pure, working as hard as humanly possible to find any job that will pay him/her, worthy humanity.

I'm guessing you didn't read his posts.

 

[BrianFromWA]

just responding to the last one. Hyperbole isn't my forte.

 

[Denny Crane]

You have to be careful with what may loosely be categorized as "correlation studies"...in this case, correlating length of time out of work with likelihood of getting a new job. As we all know, correlation doesn't equal causation. Your implied point seems to be that being out of work longer causes not finding a new job (due to falling into a culture of not feeling one has to work and due to diminished skills). While the diminished skills factor probably has some bearing, the largest factor is probably that the longer people are out of work points to the greater severity of the economic recession. The worse the recession, the longer the lay-off. The worse the recession, the less the chance you find a new job (and, when you do, the lower the wages).

That would still provide the results that these researchers found (longer out of work -> lower chance of finding a new job), but in reality, both items would be caused by the economic climate rather one item causing the other.

I think that job seeking with a gap of employment on your resume is a negative to prospective employers. That's the correllation.

 

[Masbee]

just responding to the last one. Hyperbole isn't my forte.

Then why didn't you respond to Shooter's hyperbole?

 

[Minstrel]

I think that job seeking with a gap of employment on your resume is a negative to prospective employers. That's the correllation.

In a huge recession? I think employers are smarter than that, considering most applicants will have "a gap" known as unemployment. If you're saying that people who have been laid off are worse off than people who haven't been...well, thanks for the insight.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[3RA1N1AC]

its all roe v wades fault

 

[Klinky]

We have between 11-14MM illegal immigrants who came here precisely for that reason. Push them out, and fill their jobs in landscaping, crop picking and restaurant work with citizens.

How is it the fault of someone who is unemployed that some companies desire cheap illegal labor? Shooter was implying that the unemployed are lazy and wouldn't work those jobs even if they weren't already filled by illegal immigrants. 11 - 14 million filled jobs are still unavailable to the unemployed regardless of the legal status of whoever is doing them. If someone who was unemployed applied to one of these places filled with cheap illegal labor do you think the company is really going to replace their cheap illegal labor with a legal worker?

Maybe expelling all these illegal workers would open up the job market to the unemployed, but that is easier said than done. It's also a little off topic of the point Shooter was making.

 

[THE HCP]

Even better show!

 

[BrianFromWA]

I was a 227 fan myself. Jackeeee! Sherman Hemsley in "Amen" was alright.