The duplication of Dame and CJ

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OK, hate on Frazier as much as you like, it's his problem, not mine, anyway
 
Frazier could improve in a different situation...being 3rd string sort of limits your chance to build skills that fit a team..he's just too small and tends to overdribble
 
riverman said:
Frazier could improve in a different situation...being 3rd string sort of limits your chance to build skills that fit a team..he's just too small and tends to overdribble
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I really don't think size or over dribbling is his issue. Chris Paul is small and over dribbles, John Stockton was small and over dribbled and neither could jump. But they happened to be really good. And that is the difference. If Frazier was a good shooter, nobody would care about his size. Look at Isaiah Thomas
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I really don't think size or over dribbling is his issue. Chris Paul is small and over dribbles, John Stockton was small and over dribbled and neither could jump. But they happened to be really good. And that is the difference. If Frazier was a good shooter, nobody would care about his size. Look at Isaiah Thomas
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I'm sorry but Frazier is not Chris Paul or Isiah Thomas or even Mugsy Bogues...he's a project player that hopefully will put it all together...he does not have the scoring skills or passing skills of John Stockton...it's like comparing a sports car to a scooter
 
riverman said:
I'm sorry but Frazier is not Chris Paul or Isiah Thomas or even Mugsy Bogues...he's a project player that hopefully will put it all together...he does not have the scoring skills or passing skills of John Stockton...it's like comparing a sports car to a scooter
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Obviously, but my point was it is not his size that is holding him back. It is his talent.
The too small excuse is over used with PG's IMO
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Obviously, but my point was it is not his size that is holding him back. It is his talent.
The too small excuse is over used with PG's IMO
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To me Frazier has flashes of becoming a rotation pt guard but he isn't there yet which is why he'd probably improve faster on a team without 2 good pt guards. I'll say this, he works hard and is a better defender than he gets credit for at times. I don't dislike him but he's not good enough for a top 10 rotation spot on this team yet
 
B-Roy said:
People don't like situations without precedence. But guess what, no one won a championship playing like the Warriors did last year and they steamrolled everyone.

If something doesn't work, it doesn't work. But there's no evidence that the Dame/CJ pairing won't work....yet.
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I mean, the precedence for the Warriors is the Jordan/Pippen/Rodman Bulls. Athletic guards/forwards who can defend multiple positions.

The Warriors don't win that championship without Draymond and Iggy with their defense. I'm not entirely sure what's so ground breaking about Golden State though. They are/were a team with athletic, versatile wings who could defend LeBron.
 
I think this is being blown out of proportion.

In the 10 games leading up to Damian's injury (so with Damian playing), CJ averaged 21.4 ppg, 4.7 apg, on 45% shooting from the field and 44% from three. All of those are over his season average.

Why do the 7 games he's played in since Damian returned matter more than those 10 games?

I think the reason he's struggled over the last 7 games is either:

1) More and more he's become a focus of opposing teams scouting and game planning
2) Players go through shooting slumps.
2) The accidental DNP temporarily traumatized him

Or perhaps a combination of the above. All I know is he and Damian can play well together and I think they have great chemistry on/off the court. He did shoot 9 of 16 yesterday with 6 threes so hopefully his slump is over. I like having two distributors on the court who can handle the ball. Nic use to be the other but he's gone. Having two guys who can create shots for themselves and others should be viewed as a luxury, not a duplication.
 
noknobs said:
I think this is being blown out of proportion.

In the 10 games leading up to Damian's injury (so with Damian playing), CJ averaged 21.4 ppg, 4.7 apg, on 45% shooting from the field and 44% from three. All of those are over his season average.

Why do the 7 games he's played in since Damian returned matter more than those 10 games?

I think the reason he's struggled over the last 7 games is either:

1) More and more he's become a focus of opposing teams scouting and game planning
2) Players go through shooting slumps.
2) The accidental DNP temporarily traumatized him

Or perhaps a combination of the above. All I know is he and Damian can play well together and I think they have great chemistry on/off the court. He did shoot 9 of 16 yesterday with 6 threes so hopefully his slump is over. I like having two distributors on the court who can handle the ball. Nic use to be the other but he's gone. Having two guys who can create shots for themselves and others should be viewed as a luxury, not a duplication.
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I really don't think it's so much that he's playing badly, but I have to wonder if maybe he'd be playing better. He thrived as the starting point guard. My opinion is that we have Crabbe, so if we could move CJ for a comparable star at another position of need, I would do it.
 
noknobs said:
Or perhaps a combination of the above. All I know is he and Damian can play well together and I think they have great chemistry on/off the court. He did shoot 9 of 16 yesterday with 6 threes so hopefully his slump is over. I like having two distributors on the court who can handle the ball. Nic use to be the other but he's gone. Having two guys who can create shots for themselves and others should be viewed as a luxury, not a duplication.
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Nothing wrong with the duplication except that it is all in the back-court and neither is a defender. Curry and Green can both score, shoot and pass but one is in the front-court and one in the back-court. Curry is balanced in the back-court by more of a catch-and-shoot SG who is also a Plus defender. My biggest concern is that both Dame and CJ seem to excel to their fullest when they have the ball in their hands which obviously can't happen when they are both on the court together. How well they can learn to balance that will be how high they can progress.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I really don't think it's so much that he's playing badly, but I have to wonder if maybe he'd be playing better. He thrived as the starting point guard. My opinion is that we have Crabbe, so if we could move CJ for a comparable star at another position of need, I would do it.
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I think most people would agree with that. Now getting people to agree on who is comparable.... is a different story. :emotions:
 
Well clearly the roster would need to improved at several positions if we wanted to have a contender. But I don't think getting rid of CJ is necessary of even preferable. We've got a ton of other movable pieces, tons of capspace and maybe a lottery pick.
 
TBpup said:
Nothing wrong with the duplication except that it is all in the back-court and neither is a defender. Curry and Green can both score, shoot and pass but one is in the front-court and one in the back-court. Curry is balanced in the back-court by more of a catch-and-shoot SG who is also a Plus defender. My biggest concern is that both Dame and CJ seem to excel to their fullest when they have the ball in their hands which obviously can't happen when they are both on the court together. How well they can learn to balance that will be how high they can progress.
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I was monitoring that pretty closely yesterday against Washington. The Blazers played very well at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd qtrs yesterday. Both were on the court.

But then for the most part they were not on the court together until the end of the 2nd and 4th qtrs. And one of them was always on the court. (Except during scrub time) So there was over a quarter a piece (14 minutes) when each had a chance to take over the game by themselves. So is it really that big of a concern that they excel to their fullest when they have the ball in their hands. They both will get ample time to do so. And when they are in together, they play pretty good too. At least they showed signs of it yesterday.
 
noknobs said:
Well clearly the roster would need to improved at several positions if we wanted to have a contender. But I don't think getting rid of CJ is necessary of even preferable. We've got a ton of other movable pieces, tons of capspace and maybe a lottery pick.
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We have tons of other movable pieces....but most of those wouldn't bring back anything like CJ would.
 
noknobs said:
Well clearly the roster would need to improved at several positions if we wanted to have a contender. But I don't think getting rid of CJ is necessary of even preferable. We've got a ton of other movable pieces, tons of capspace and maybe a lottery pick.
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I agree with this..if CJ becomes our Manu Ginobli and we slot a 3 and D guy at the 2
 
TBpup said:
We have tons of other movable pieces....but most of those wouldn't bring back anything like CJ would.
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Yeah, there's a big difference between "movable" and "desirable". As much as I like most of the guys on our roster, we only have three desirable players...and that's counting Plumlee and Meyers at 0.5 each, which may be generous in Meyers' case.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Smart has not lived up to his name, and many in the Celtic organization are displeased with his inability to control his emotions on the court. If he were dealt here, he would clearly be a backup, clearing room for Crabbe to start. Smart however is a bigger PG, and a plus defender (or so his reputation was; I don't know if that's held true in the pros). I'd need a first round pick along with Smart to make that deal though. Make it lowest lottery pick available (theirs, or Brooklyn's if Boston makes the playoffs).

Edit: just looked more closely at Smart's stats, especially his shooting percentages. :smiley-puke: Definitely need Brooklyn's pick to trade CJ for him.
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His FG% will improve, Smart is a good player; don't let his FG% or emotions fool u, Smart plays winning basketball & he IS a "smart" player (good BBIQ & he's improving:smiley-laughing:). Smart's defense is good & dude is a tank! I also watch a lot of Bos. b-ball & there was 1 game where HE guarded a few times throughout the game & KEPT Boogie out of the lane! Boogie got so frustrated w/ Smart, he TRIED to throw Smart but dude's so stout that he went to the floor but slowly & barley!:biglaugh: There r hardly ANY players @ ANY position that can unseat/out muscle Smart:ygrin: I would LOVE it IF we could get Smart PLUS a good pick from 1 of those clubs!:smiley-yay:
 
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Not interested in anything on the Boston roster for CJ.

Protected picks? Mid/low firsts? No thanks.

Okafor? I'd be interested. Noel? Same.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Not interested in anything on the Boston roster for CJ.

Protected picks? Mid/low firsts? No thanks.

Okafor? I'd be interested. Noel? Same.
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Brooklyn's pick is not protected. It plus Smart is good value for CJ, plus it would probably guarantee we keep our pick this year too. Those in the "must add more talent" camp should be thrilled if something like that happened.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Brooklyn's pick is not protected. It plus Smart is good value for CJ, plus it would probably guarantee we keep our pick this year too. Those in the "must add more talent" camp should be thrilled if something like that happened.
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If we trade CJ, we need a get a good starter for him. Smart would make a good backup on a contending team similar to Dellavedova’s role on the Cavs.

This draft class is very weak; even Brooklyn’s pic at #3 could be a bust.

Trading CJ for Smart and Brooklyn’s pic feels like a giant step……..backwards. It would take a season or two just to get back to where we are now, maybe.
 
oldfisherman said:
Trading CJ for Smart and Brooklyn’s pic feels like a giant step……..backwards. It would take a season or two just to get back to where we are now, maybe.
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I agree but if trading CJ also got you Brooklyn's pick AND you kept your own at around #8-10, that would be at least something I would consider. Right now, NbaDraft.net projects that would net you Jaylen Brown at #3, a 6'7" bruising SG out of Cal and somewhere around Poeltl, Sabonis, Hield, Murray with the 2nd pick.
 
TBpup said:
I agree but if trading CJ also got you Brooklyn's pick AND you kept your own at around #8-10, that would be at least something I would consider. Right now, NbaDraft.net projects that would net you Jaylen Brown at #3, a 6'7" bruising SG out of Cal and somewhere around Poeltl, Sabonis, Hield, Murray with the 2nd pick.
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Yep, DX has Brown at 5 and Rabb at 10. Those certainly wouldn't be a bad pair of picks to add to a young roster still including Lillard/Smart/Crabbe/Aminu/Harkless/Vonleh/Plumlee/Leonard. Overall, probably a talent upgrade, and would likely ensure that we'd keep our 2017 #1 as well.
yuyuza1 said:
Point you guys are missing here, BOS would not do that
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If they're looking to add a reliable, explosive scorer this year, that might be their best option.
 
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