The Excuse Machine and the Disappearing Man

[riverman]

Fans creating a supportive environment for team success...and just when did this become a character flaw? No excuses, mistakes were made in every loss any team has had all season. To harp endlessly about them is to really miss out on the joy of competitive sports. People are not machines. There's a 50% chance that every team will lose a game tonight. Pick the one you enjoy the most and start cheering. Bashing teams is boring, misses the point of why we follow them and escalates doubt and negative affirmations. Sometimes the reactions you read on these threads just baffles the mind

 

[H.C.]

Agreed. Batum plays through injuries, which speaks to his character & determination. He had to know that playing with a fractured finger on his shooting hand was going to affect his offensive production & percentages. He's started all 54 games this year. He's averaging almost 38 min in Feb. He's guarding other teams PGs. The offensive results? He's shooting around 27% on 3s going back to Jan. He's not able to back down smaller players and shoot over them, or hit runners like he did early in the season. He didn't sit out because his will to win & be there for the team is greater than his fear of playing poor (due to injury). That's rare.

so when he plays through injuries huh? what happened earlier in his career when he had injuries? certainly didn't play through it.
but at least hes not Meyers leonard with his sprained ankle. oh gee -.-

 

[TBpup]

Fans creating a supportive environment for team success...and just when did this become a character flaw? No excuses, mistakes were made in every loss any team has had all season. To harp endlessly about them is to really miss out on the joy of competitive sports. People are not machines. There's a 50% chance that every team will lose a game tonight. Pick the one you enjoy the most and start cheering. Bashing teams is boring, misses the point of why we follow them and escalates doubt and negative affirmations. Sometimes the reactions you read on these threads just baffles the mind

I have no problem celebrating a win but that doesn't mean I go Pollyanna and just accept losses like there is nothing to be done about them. As for having a 50% chance of winning/losing each game, that would shout out 'mediocrity' and I don't think that is the goal here. Fan support is great but I don't expect it to be 'blind support'. Realistic support with legitimate questions or expectations seems completely appropriate.

If everything is just roses, why compete? Why try to get better? Why have trades at all? Heck, why even have practice? Just be happy with what is and don't dare question or try and improve on anything. Now I'm baffled...

 

[BlazerWookee]

Ever since the glorious series where we blew HCA and got curb-stomped by the Rockets, my mantra has been "NO MORE EXCUSES!"

Just win - or STFU.

I was so happy with this team 2 months ago, it makes the current disappointment even harder to swallow. Don't say "wait till next year"....this IS next year's team. What we have seen the last month is all we can expect for the forseeable future: indifference and mediocrity.

Grouch indeed, lol...

 

[BlazerWookee]

Downward trend and not near the consistency of LA. Some people questioned LA's toughness which was reasonable given his talent but he was always quite consistent with his production.

And Nic's injured finger is no his non-shooting hand. I believe it is the ring finger on his left. It's not that Nic isn't talented and this certainly is not a knee-jerk reaction to one game. It is just amplified by the fact that LaMarcus was out and every other teammate stepped up except for him....in a game where every other player on the other team stepped up as well because they had 3 starters out.

Nic has the tools but I just don't see near the signs like you saw with LA.

You saw him miss his first six shots, right? If he'd kept shooting and missing, you'd be complaining that he was jacking up too many shots. I have my complaints about Nic's game, but his positives drastically outweigh his negatives.

 

[MarAzul]

The team overachieved early in the season when they were playing seriously inferior competition, and against good teams that were slow out of the gate. Let's not forget that we barely beat DET and CLE prior to getting stomped by the Wolves. Sure, those games went into the W column rather than the L column, but all that did was disguise the fact that we weren't playing as good as our record suggested.
We peaked during the stretch of games in Nov/Dec where we beat GS, IND, and OKC. Since then our play leveled off, and recently has steadily declined. The offense that was hailed as "genius" has been scouted and it doesn't work anymore. If Stotts was truly an offensive genius he'd have 4 or 5 other offensive schemes to throw at defenses. But whenever we go into a scoring drought what do we see? Guys running from spot to spot, a lot of heavily defended dribbling, and long contested jumpers.
I like Stotts a heck of a lot more than I liked Nate. But I don't think he's the right coach by any stretch of the imagination. Both he and the players have talked about how he doesn't really draft up plays, but instead trusts his players to make plays. That's essentially what Mo Cheeks did when he was here! Sure, Stotts gave them a loose framework for how to space the floor, which is far more than Mo could hope to do, but now that the spacing has been figured out by the entire league he doesn't have a rebuttal. Watching him try to coach a 7-game series is going to be brutal.

What's this? A Post that doesn't rail about Lamarcus? Does this mean you think Stotts needs Lamarcus on the court?

 

[TBpup]

You saw him miss his first six shots, right? If he'd kept shooting and missing, you'd be complaining that he was jacking up too many shots. I have my complaints about Nic's game, but his positives drastically outweigh his negatives.

Not if they are good shots. If he is jacking up contested '3's, yes. If he is attacking the rim and taking advantage of his mismatch against almost any defender, absolutely not. Type of shot means as much as percentage. Sometimes they don't go down but that doesn't mean you stop taking good, aggressive shots.

His positive CAN CERTAINLY outweigh his negatives....no question about it. But for the money tied up in him, it's just not worth it for what he is producing. Low shooting percentages, barely breaking double-digit scoring and not nearly the defensive intensity he used to have. Again, all the tools in the world but he just doesn't use them that often.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Fans creating a supportive environment for team success...and just when did this become a character flaw? No excuses, mistakes were made in every loss any team has had all season. To harp endlessly about them is to really miss out on the joy of competitive sports. People are not machines. There's a 50% chance that every team will lose a game tonight. Pick the one you enjoy the most and start cheering. Bashing teams is boring, misses the point of why we follow them and escalates doubt and negative affirmations. Sometimes the reactions you read on these threads just baffles the mind

Nobody cares what you consider a good fan or whatever you're talking about. The joy of competitive sports is that you can say whatever you feel/want and it doesn't really matter, because it's just a game. There's no "point of why we follow them", because everyone can have a different reason and it doesn't matter what it is.

 

[jlprk]

Batum was always all potential. He’d look good on 10% of his plays, bad on 10%, and mediocre on 80%. He loved to rove like Mo Williams does, but had none of Mo’s dribbling ability. So he had to quickly unload the ball and pretend to be a good passer.

When the Timberwolves wanted him and he hinted he wanted to go, this board displayed all sides. As the most reasonable person here, I struck a practical compromise. I said, “Yes he’ll be vastly overpaid, yes he has potential but is taking forever to meet it. But if we don’t sign him, we’ll give him away to Minnesota for nothing. There is a good chance that his new salary will cause 1) him to feel that he owes it to us to expand his role, out of guilt, and 2) management to expand his role, to get a return on their investment.

Gifted with the wisdom of Solomon, I continued, “So this contract might cause him to approach his potential. Give it one year. Then trade him if he’s not there. That way we won’t just give him to the Wolves for free.”

The high pay did indeed motivate management to expand his role. Now he boastfully catches and passes with one hand, piling up assists and turnovers in a bad ratio. His conception of what he should do is still all wrong, which is why his potential is still unrealized. As the George Washington of the board, I say, trade him.

 

[craigehlo]

As the George Washington of the board, I say, trade him.

I second this sentiment, so I guess I'm John Adams.

 

[ponderguy]

I second this sentiment, so I guess I'm John Adams.

dibs on thomas jefferson

 

[TBpup]

dibs on thomas jefferson

How long till we get to JFK or Ronald Reagan?

 

[jlprk]

Yea, though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, you will fear no evil: for I am with you; my rod and my staff they comfort you, you little sheep.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Yea, though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, you will fear no evil: for I am with you; my rod and my staff they comfort you, you little sheep.

......especially thy rod and staff.........giggity.

 

[cmeese47]

Do the Pacers match a Batum sized deal for Stephenson?

 

[Sinobas]

I think Batum just over-rated. He's not athletic enough, nor does he have the ball handling skills to be a slasher. He doesn't seem to have much of an offensive game aside from spot up shooting, and he's always been fairly mediocre at that. Now he does finish around the rim very well, but he only gets tip ins and the occasional point blank look there.

His defense is so over-rated. Yes, he has long arms and he defends PGs better than Blake/Felton/Lillard but he's still not that great. I see him giving up a lot of penetration of his own. He's always throwing these stupid-ass passes.

He's not bad....just an average run of the mill wing. Not worth 10+ mill.

 

[TBpup]

Do the Pacers match a Batum sized deal for Stephenson?

Player...........Pts...Rebs...Asts..Stls...FG%..3Pt%..A/TO
Batum..........12.8..6.4....5.4.....1.0. .455.. .338....2.1
Stephenson..14.0..7.3....5.1.....0.7. .497.. .327....1.8

One would think that Lance would be very grateful for the contract Nic got. More points, rebounds, much higher FG% and very similar on almost everything else.

 

[riverman]

I have no problem celebrating a win but that doesn't mean I go Pollyanna and just accept losses like there is nothing to be done about them. As for having a 50% chance of winning/losing each game, that would shout out 'mediocrity' and I don't think that is the goal here. Fan support is great but I don't expect it to be 'blind support'. Realistic support with legitimate questions or expectations seems completely appropriate.

If everything is just roses, why compete? Why try to get better? Why have trades at all? Heck, why even have practice? Just be happy with what is and don't dare question or try and improve on anything. Now I'm baffled...

This is why you have a coaching staff and a GM...I happen to like ours. As for blind support, this is an insult to all blind people who love sports. I have legititmate questions all the time. I believe in practice and enjoy winning as much as you. So be baffled! Twisting the jist of my post doesn't make my criticism of some's posts mediocre or less valid than anyone's trade ideas. Big difference between being happy about a 3pt loss to the Spurs and enjoying the game. To each his own

 

[TBpup]

This is why you have a coaching staff and a GM...I happen to like ours. As for blind support, this is an insult to all blind people who love sports.

That's just silly. You know what was meant. But if that is how you need to word your response, now worries. It kind of speaks for itself.

However, I would think it is ok to question coaching philosophy or a GM's moves just like it is ok to commend them when they do well. Otherwise, it seems a little one-sided. Yes, to each their own.

 

[riverman]

Nobody cares what you consider a good fan or whatever you're talking about. The joy of competitive sports is that you can say whatever you feel/want and it doesn't really matter, because it's just a game. There's no "point of why we follow them", because everyone can have a different reason and it doesn't matter what it is.

If this were true in your case, why would you take time to write this? Maybe you are this nobody who cares? What I say might not matter, you're right, it's a game, you're right again. There's no point of why...maybe in your world. I have a reason to support the team. You may not like my take on this thread and you're welcome to your own different reason because it DOESN'T matter what it is. Some folks actually do care.

 

[jlprk]

Do the Pacers match a Batum sized deal for Stephenson?

Player...........Pts...Rebs...Asts..Stls...FG%..3Pt%..A/TO
Batum..........12.8..6.4....5.4.....1.0. .455.. .338....2.1
Stephenson..14.0..7.3....5.1.....0.7. .497.. .327....1.8

One would think that Lance would be very grateful for the contract Nic got. More points, rebounds, much higher FG% and very similar on almost everything else.

We can do better for Batum than Stephenson. Anyway, here’s a statistical illusion. Batum is better than Stephenson at 2 pointers (.569 to .556) and 3 pointers (.338 to .327), but worse at their total (.455 to .497).

I verified the counterintuitive arithmetic is right, so...how can this be?????

http://bkref.com/tiny/DlYTe

 

[illmatic99]

We can do better for Batum than Stephenson. Anyway, here’s a statistical illusion. Batum is better than Stephenson at 2 pointers (.569 to .556) and 3 pointers (.338 to .327), but worse at their total (.455 to .497).

I verified the counterintuitive arithmetic is right, so...how can this be?????

http://bkref.com/tiny/DlYTe

Nic takes more threes. His 33% has more influence on his overall shooting than Lance's 33%

 

[illmatic99]

Do the Pacers match a Batum sized deal for Stephenson?

Tough now with Turner. I think they will have to choose among one of them and prolly S&T the other.

 

[TBpup]

We can do better for Batum than Stephenson. Anyway, here’s a statistical illusion. Batum is better than Stephenson at 2 pointers (.569 to .556) and 3 pointers (.338 to .327), but worse at their total (.455 to .497).

I verified the counterintuitive arithmetic is right, so...how can this be?????

http://bkref.com/tiny/DlYTe

First guess is that he shoots so many more '3's in comparison to Stephenson that it drags down his total percentage. Lance shoots more '2's at a higher percentage than his '3's so his total shooting percentage is higher. I think I just got a headache....

 

[1honestfan]

In this day and age, the Blazers manage "The Message" they want you the fan to hear. It in most cases is not correct but rather self-serving. It's not like in the old days when the media controlled "The Message"; back then the media was far more responsible in what they said. Fans today who take what the Blazers say as gospel are in a totally different group then those who don't listen to the blazers and actually look at the team. To keep it short, the Blazers have invaded every part of the media on every level just so they can get out the message they want you to hear and alot of times it's just garbage. As a result, we have arguments from basically two different parties; those who recite what the blazers message contains or those who try and think independently. I would encourage those who take what the blazers say as gospel and try to respect what the independents think because their is value to what they bring.

For example, I have worked with a lot of Doctors and because they are considered an authority when it comes to medical, I have to take what they say as gospel and respect them. I have zero problems reciting what they say because they are well respected in always doing whats right. When it comes to the blazers, they are not an authority nor well respected because they only give out information that is self serving to them. I hope people can see the difference here.

I am not trying to be a troll as this is my opinion and I am giving credit to both sides while also trying to put it in perspective. The blazers are starting to fire-up the excuse machine. I forgot who I heard this from but their is two things that sell in the NBA; you're either selling hope or you're selling championships. With the blazers 0-14 in getting to the second round of the playoffs in the last 14 years, they are clearly selling hope right now.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Right now, the team is banking on faith, selling hope, and hoping for charity.

 

[cmeese47]

We can do better for Batum than Stephenson. Anyway, here’s a statistical illusion. Batum is better than Stephenson at 2 pointers (.569 to .556) and 3 pointers (.338 to .327), but worse at their total (.455 to .497).

I verified the counterintuitive arithmetic is right, so...how can this be?????

http://bkref.com/tiny/DlYTe

Batum is taking a lot more of those 33% shots than Lance. Lance knows he can get a better (higher percentage) shot

 

[jlprk]

In past years, Batum's shooting percentages make him rank high in stats like TS% and even PER, but ranking high in all 3 shot types is deceptive when you take too many of some and too few of others.

 

[cmeese47]

Stephenson is a much better defender and while both are still you I would rather have Stephenson

 

[PapaG]

I'm not expecting him to be LeBron or Durant but when he starts yapping his gums about being the 2nd best SF, that sounds like he things he has arrived.

When did Nic say he was the 2nd-best SF? Is that like you saying that Olshey regrets not getting more help at the deadline last year, when he actually said the opposite, because he wanted flexibility last summer to improve the bench?