The Frail Blazers

[Fez Hammersticks]

But in the summer of 2009, Roy went to the bargaining table looking for a contract extension. By that time, he had another surgery on his left knee in August of 2008, leaving him with no meniscus in that knee.

Roy wanted a maximum deal allowed by the NBA's collective bargaining agreement – a four-year deal with an option for a fifth year totaling $82 million. The Blazers wanted the deal to be four years. After more than a month of negotiations, Roy got his option year, and essentially, his $82 million guaranteed.

Miller, who was in on the negotiation of Roy's deal, said the team was fully aware that Roy's knees had little to no cartilage left when they granted the extension.

Oden had hip surgery in sixth grade, and one of his legs is shorter than the other, causing a natural limp. While in high school, he also had ligament damage to his right wrist, which was later operated on at Ohio State University.

"I did have concerns with a guy who was hurt as much as Oden," Patterson said, noting that he was in favor of drafting Durant.

It's difficult to say whether Allen and the Blazers have learned a lesson about valuing medical information. In last summer's NBA draft, the Blazers selected guard Elliot Williams with the 22nd overall pick. The first week of the season, the team announced Williams would have season-ending surgery on his right knee. Another surgery, on his left knee, is scheduled for this month.

Miller said when the Blazers drafted Williams, they were aware he would need surgery. Miller said the bright side is that Williams should only miss a season.

The team's new general manager, Rich Cho, said he values medical history and the advice provided by medical personnel when acquiring players

LINK​

 

[BlayZa]

the worst part out of all that is that there is no insurance on brandons knees, in fact its an exception i believe.

seriously, WTF?! why did we ever agree to that.

in saying that though, we'll no doubt do the same thing with Oden....

let's hope not..

 

[Sedatedfork]

the worst part out of all that is that there is no insurance on brandons knees, in fact its an exception i believe.

seriously, WTF?! why did we ever agree to that.

in saying that though, we'll no doubt do the same thing with Oden....

let's hope not..

Maybe the insurance company wouldn't insure the knees or the premium was too high. Who knows.

 

[MARIS61]

Larry Miller has singlehandedly negated 5 years of impressive rebuilding, leaving the team in about the same shape Bush left the country in.

 

[oldmangrouch]

On a related note, how many NBA teams allow their players to compete in international competitions when they are suffering from an injury?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/01/trail_blazers_injury_woes_how.html

I guess all that needs to be added is WTF!!!!!!!!

This makes me really happy KP is gone

 

[Nikolokolus]

Gambling is sometimes OK and even necessary for teams looking to get into a position to contend, but when you gamble as many times as the Blazers have on health in recent years it almost seems inevitable that there are going to be significant setbacks; if it happens to a player or two then maybe you can work around it, but this whole roster feels like it's built on guys with shaky pre-draft physicals: Batum's heart (Father died on the court), LMA's heart condition (treated successfully), Oden with red flags on his knees and hip, Brandon with red flags on at least one knee, Williams with known congenital defects in his knees, drafting Claver after a severe knee injury the year before. Even the free agents and trade acquisitions (aside from Miller) have a spotty record: Pryzbilla has never been the most durable guy, Camby has struggled with staying healthy his whole career, ... certainly you wouldn't expect every single guy to have career threatening setbacks, but that's a lot of risk for a franchise to bear that has hopes of doing anything sustainable.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

Well, hopefully they've learned their lessons and they'll restrict their gambling on players to guys with character concerns.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Larry Miller has singlehandedly negated 5 years of impressive rebuilding, leaving the team in about the same shape Bush left the country in.

Hopefully Cho is better than Obama at cleaning it up

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

This doesn't upset me. To build a title contender, you generally have to take some risks...whether on attitude, talent potential or injury chance. Pritchard took his risks on injury chance, not talent potential or attitude. Whitsitt took his risks on attitude. Nash and Patterson took no risks.

Hopefully, Pritchard took good risks, based on the information at the time (which I don't have a complete picture of, nor do I think anyone on the forum does). If he didn't, then he deserves to be blamed for that. But I don't think the fact that they didn't work out is de facto proof that they were bad risks. You can take good risks and fail.

 

[maxiep]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

Meh. A lot of "what if" and 20/20 hindsight. I thought it was interesting how Patterson wants all the credit for the 2006 draft, but doesn't want to be blamed for Brandon Roy's bad knees.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

Meh. A lot of "what if" and 20/20 hindsight. I thought it was interesting how Patterson wants all the credit for the 2006 draft, but doesn't want to be blamed for Brandon Roy's bad knees.

Not too mention he said he was in favor of drafting Durant as well, lol. Good one, Steve. If you were so smart you'd still have a job.

Also, it's odd people kill KP for taking risks on players with potential injury problems, yet those same people kill him for not taking Blair. Funny how that works.

In the end it sounds like Oden was more bad luck than anything else and Roy was the real injury risk. That said, I'm still happy KP drafted Roy as he got the best player in the draft and he is the #1 reason why the Blazers' franchise turned around. If there was no Roy this whole time Oden has been down who knows what the team would have done(I'd bet the playoff drought would still be going). At this point the only unfortunate thing about Roy is the contract the organization gave him, not Roy himself. I still think down the road Roy will be useful in some way or another, though.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

Blair was a second round guy. Oden, Roy, Williams combined draft slots don't equal Blairs slot.

Blair = 37

Oden, Roy, Williams = 29


So maybe it's not the same?


As for Oden being bad luck, surgery on the lower part of his body in high school says differently

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

Blair was a second round guy. Oden, Roy, Williams combined draft slots don't equal Blairs slot.

Blair = 37

Oden, Roy, Williams = 29


So maybe it's not the same?

An injury risk is an injury risk. Besides:

- Oden would have been taken 2nd anyways
- Roy was either going to be a Blazer or Rocket. Blazers drafted Foye who the Wolves wanted so they got Roy. He worked out great for 4 years.
- Don't know much about Williams, but Blazers took him knowing he would need surgery. I guess we'll just have to see how he plays first.

You can say it's not the same I suppose, but an injury risk is an injury risk if you ask me, and the only player you can say they reached for is Elliott.

As for Oden being bad luck, surgery on the lower part of his body in high school says differently

We don't know the final grade the team doctors gave on Oden, but we do know his knees looked "pristine". Those were the words of Jay Jensen a month ago. They also said his bone density was off the charts and that they've done various tests before and after drafting him and everything has been fine. Jay Jensen really seemed at a loss for words as to why this is happening because they can't find a whole lot wrong with his knees other then they keep getting inured.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

An injury risk is an injury risk. Besides:

- Oden would have been taken 2nd anyways
- Roy was either going to be a Blazer or Rocket. Blazers drafted Foye who the Wolves wanted so they got Roy. He worked out great for 4 years.
- Don't know much about Williams, but Blazers took him knowing he would need surgery. I guess we'll just have to see how he plays first.

You can say it's not the same I suppose, but an injury risk is an injury risk if you ask me, and the only player you can say they reached for is Elliott.




We don't know the final grade the team doctors gave on Oden, but we do know his knees looked "pristine". Those were the words of Jay Jensen a month ago. They also said his bone density was off the charts and that they've done various tests before and after drafting him and everything has been fine. Jay Jensen really seemed at a loss for words as to why this is happening because they can't find a whole lot wrong with his knees other then they keep getting inured.

No one can convince me that with Oden's two microfracture surgeries since he has been a Blazer that Oden had "pristine" knees before we drafted him. I don't believe it for a second, and was told differently by someone who might know as well.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

No one can convince me that with Oden's two microfracture surgeries since he has been a Blazer that Oden had "pristine" knees before we drafted him. I don't believe it for a second, and was told differently by someone who might know as well.

Well liked I said the team won't say what the final grade was that they gave Oden on potential injuries. I buy that the knees looked fine, though. I also buy that the team can't figure out why it keeps happening as well. They can explain the fractured patella, but not why his articular cartilage keeps chipping or however you want to describe it.

It's not like they have a reason to hide anything. They mentioned Roy's red flags twice now(before draft, before max contract), yet nothing on Oden. Both are knee concerns as well. If there was something before the draft that concerned them about Oden's knees I think they would mention it, but they haven't.

 

[BBert]

Hopefully Cho is better than Obama at cleaning it up

Considering Cho won't have the entire Republican party and the vast Rupert Murdoch propaganda network blocking him every step of the way, if Cho were as capable as Obama his chances would be good. I doubt it.

 

[Rodolfo]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

No one can convince me that with Oden's two microfracture surgeries since he has been a Blazer that Oden had "pristine" knees before we drafted him. I don't believe it for a second, and was told differently by someone who might know as well.

What it really comes down to with Greg, is body alignment. His body just isn't made for the stresses that are put on a body in the NBA. He may go stretches, but he'll never go years, without injuring himself. I'll betcha' his knees looked great until that first injury.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

What would be interesting is pulling up the threads when the board was chanting to resign Roy and what was taking so long. I was one of them asking why they are messing with Roy and he deserves the max . . . but I know I wasn't the only one.

I do remember EdO being one of the few posters siding with management and wondering what the hurry was in signing Roy to the max suggesting letting him become a restricted agent (worst case you match a max contract), but he was one of the few.

Most were mad at the Blazers (really putting the blame on Miller) for not resigning Roy quickly.

My hat is off to Allen . . . knowing the situation, he took care of Roy (sounds like he personally insured him too) in hopes this was the right thing to do to bring a championship. He probably isn't that upset about the money, if anything I'm guessing he is upset about the fact that the now bad contract really hampers the teams ability to manuever.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

I think we need to change our name. It's too easy for media types to change it to match our state of being. What would be something good that doesn't rhyme with "trail"?

Portland Orange Blazers.

 

[Nikolokolus]

What would be interesting is pulling up the threads when the board was chanting to resign Roy and what was taking so long. I was one of them asking why they are messing with Roy and he deserves the max . . . but I know I wasn't the only one.

I do remember EdO being one of the few posters siding with management and wondering what the hurry was in signing Roy to the max suggesting letting him become a restricted agent (worst case you match a max contract), but he was one of the few.

Most were mad at the Blazers (really putting the blame on Miller) for not resigning Roy quickly.

My hat is off to Allen . . . knowing the situation, he took care of Roy (sounds like he personally insured him too) in hopes this was the right thing to do to bring a championship. He probably isn't that upset about the money, if anything I'm guessing he is upset about the fact that the now bad contract really hampers the teams ability to manuever.

I was definitely one of them ... and really giving him what he ended up getting was probably inevitable given the circumstances around the team and the fact that some other team almost certainly would have taken the risk of offering him a max restricted free agent deal. In the end we'd be in roughly the same place -- no Roy because of injury or no Roy because of free agency (had they let it get that far and chosen not to match).

 

[handiman]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

Well liked I said the team won't say what the final grade was that they gave Oden on potential injuries.

This is a case where "no comment" clearly means they're biting their tongue on something bad.

It's not like they have a reason to hide anything. They mentioned Roy's red flags twice now

Roy already panned out as a prospect. Oden is a bust if he does nothing more. They can admit hindsight mistakes on Roy and not look bad (aside from the contract mess), whereas doing so with Oden makes them look like idiots.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

For me, the worst part of that article was this: "
Like many NBA teams, the Blazers medical staff assigns a ranking to a potential draft pick or player they are interested in acquiring.

Of the seven players on the Blazers' current roster who were drafted in the first round by Portland from 2006-2010, five were rated as high risk from a medical standpoint, including one who was essentially given a red flag as dangerous to draft. Because of laws protecting the privacy of players, the team would not disclose those players' names.

So they drafted one guy who the staff told them they should absolutely not draft??!!

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

This is a case where "no comment" clearly means they're biting their tongue on something bad.

Looks like you missed this part:

Of the seven players on the Blazers' current roster who were drafted in the first round by Portland from 2006-2010, five were rated as high risk from a medical standpoint, including one who was essentially given a red flag as dangerous to draft. Because of laws protecting the privacy of players, the team would not disclose those players' names.

----

Roy already panned out as a prospect. Oden is a bust if he does nothing more. They can admit hindsight mistakes on Roy and not look bad (aside from the contract mess), whereas doing so with Oden makes them look like idiots.

Oden has shown enough flashes of brilliance that there's little doubt he would have been a very good player. There's no doubt the Blazers drafted themselves a very good player. I don't think they have to worry about protecting their image of drafting a "bust".

And the bold part is just one reason why the team has no reason to lie. If they're willing to admit that, they'd admit to anything imo. That's really as bad as it gets because we're talking about a lot of money, not just a draft pick.

I don't buy the team is hiding anything when it comes to Oden. Besides, it's a lose-lose situation. Share that your grade was a good one, you look foolish because of what has happened to Oden. Share a bad grade given, you look foolish for taking him. I tend to believe(although I have no evidence of it) that he graded out "OK". They at least shared that the MRI's were fine and since he's had no other injury problems that I can think of that would lead me to believe overall his report looked fine. If there were serious severe risks the team could have just taken Durant, a guy they knew would be a star. They weren't tied to Oden. In the end I'm chalking it up more to bad luck than anything else.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/01/trail_blazers_injury_woes_how.html

The article steers blame from Pritchard to Allen. Count the frequency of names.

For years, Quick credited his god Pritchard for all draft picks. Now that he casts a shadow on the picks, Quick changes his tune. He mentions the name of Paul Allen about 15 times, Larry Miller about 8 times, every doctor and trainer you can think of several times, but Kevin Pritchard only about twice in the whole article! Even Steve Patterson, whom the paper hates, is mentioned about 10 times, favorably!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

As for Oden being bad luck, surgery on the lower part of his body in high school says differently

What surgery was that? He had hip surgery in 6th grade and the wrist surgery the summer after after he graduated from high school. He basically played six years; junior high and high school, year round (including AAU ball) without any significant injuries or surgeries. Neither of those injuries have proven to be recurring.

BNM

 

[Ed O]

I do remember EdO being one of the few posters siding with management and wondering what the hurry was in signing Roy to the max suggesting letting him become a restricted agent (worst case you match a max contract), but he was one of the few.

What the who, now?

I was (a) correct (sort of) and (b) acknowledged after the fact as being (sort of) correct?

It's a 2011 miracle!

Ed O.
(Yes, bad grammar. I've had a LOT of rum tonight.)

 

[handiman]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

Looks like you missed this part:

I don't see what makes you think I missed that part... If there was nothing bad to comment on, privacy laws wouldn't be an issue. They would just come out and say he did not have any red flags.

Oden has shown enough flashes of brilliance that there's little doubt he would have been a very good player. There's no doubt the Blazers drafted themselves a very good player. I don't think they have to worry about protecting their image of drafting a "bust".

You're speaking as a die hard Blazers fan; hardly representative of the average fan the team has to cater to image-wise.

Neither of those injuries have proven to be recurring.

We're not still stuck on recurring/related injuries, are we? Not one of Oden's injuries have fit that bill, but the book is pretty much closed on whether he's injury prone...

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

What surgery was that? He had hip surgery in 6th grade and the wrist surgery the summer after after he graduated from high school. He basically played six years; junior high and high school, year round (including AAU ball) without any significant injuries or surgeries. Neither of those injuries have proven to be recurring.

BNM

He had hip surgery in 6th grade

You answered the question yourself. My surgeon thinks the hip injury as a youth probably started a lot of the problems. As someone said in this or another thread, his body just isn't aligned properly to withstand the NBA game. This wasn't a year where one player was a consensus #1 pick and then there was a big drop off. This was a year where there were two players that were consensus #1 picks. If there was even the slightest question about ANYHING concerning Oden, they shold have picked Durant. (and I was definately a pick Oden guy) Especially with our past history with Sam Bowie and Michael Jordan.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Re: Medical staff warned front office about high risk guys

We're not still stuck on recurring/related injuries, are we? Not one of Oden's injuries have fit that bill, but the book is pretty much closed on whether he's injury prone...

The terms "bust" and "injury prone" just seem to set some people off.