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Rick2583

Rick2583

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Only 10 plays have AVERAGED over 40 HRs a season over a 10 year span & 5 of then are connected to PEDS with another in question.


1) Sammy Sosa.................(479) - 1995-2004
2) Babe Ruth.....................(467) - 1920-1929
3) Alex Rodriquez...............(454) - 1998-2007
4) Barry Bonds...................(444) - 1995-2004
5) Jimmie Foxx...................(415) - 1930-1939
6) Albert Pujlos..................(408) - 2001-2010
7) Mark McGuire.................,(405) - 1990-1999
8) Harmon Killibrew.............(403) - 1961-1970
9) Ken Griffey Jr.................(402) - 1991-2000
10) Rafael Palmeiro...............(402) - 1994-2003
 
Sammy, Alex, Barry, Mac and Rafi. Who is your question, Pujols or Grif? Both were injury plagued.
 
totus44 said:
Sammy, Alex, Barry, Mac and Rafi. Who is your question, Pujols or Grif? Both were injury plagued.
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Pujols has been mentioned by some as a possible. Though I really don't get how Griffey just gets dismissed automatically. He was hitting the long ball right beside all the others I mean back to back 56 home run seasons & averaged 50 HRs a season between 1996 & 2000 which was only 1 less then Bonds over a 5 year span & 1 more then A-Rod. I just don't get how EVERYONE assumes he's clean.
 
Right, never understood why KGJ got a pass. He would would have been performing back in the heyday of oral supplements.
 
...I think what happens with some of the PED users is that the hyper-developed muscles over power the joints, ligaments, tendons etc. To be honest, I always suspect Griffey when he started having injury problems all of a sudden for the reasons I just pointed to...Pujols too.
...it becomes a case of the "weakest link" failing (hammys, joints, tendons, ligaments) because they can no longer support the torque/pressure that the over developed muscles put on them.
 
It has just ALWAYS surprised me that KGs name never came up & he was right in the middle of the mix with all those other guys. But they were dirty & he was clean. Really?
 
And like 59 pointed out with PEDs your body just breaks down & nobody broke down the way KG did. After his amazing run between 1996-2000 where he average 50 HRs a year, over the next 6 seasons he missed well over 300 games due to injuries.
 
Rick2583 said:
Only 10 plays have AVERAGED over 40 HRs a season over a 10 year span & 5 of then are connected to PEDS with another in question.


1) Sammy Sosa.................(479) - 1995-2004
2) Babe Ruth.....................(467) - 1920-1929
3) Alex Rodriquez...............(454) - 1998-2007
4) Barry Bonds...................(444) - 1995-2004
5) Jimmie Foxx...................(415) - 1930-1939
6) Albert Pujlos..................(408) - 2001-2010
7) Mark McGuire.................,(405) - 1990-1999
8) Harmon Killibrew.............(403) - 1961-1970
9) Ken Griffey Jr.................(402) - 1991-2000
10) Rafael Palmeiro...............(402) - 1994-2003
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OK, I don't have issues with Ruth, Foxx, Killibrew, or Griffey, but I can understand why some might think he's (Griffey) suspicious based solely on the era he played in... So 3 clean for sure, and 2 in question (Pujols and Griffey)...
 
Hammerojustice said:
OK, I don't have issues with Ruth, Foxx, Killibrew, or Griffey, but I can understand why some might think he's (Griffey) suspicious based solely on the era he played in... So 3 clean for sure, and 2 in question (Pujols and Griffey)...
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It just really pisses me off that a stat that was so sacred as I was growing up, has become so tarnished.
 
Rick2583 said:
It just really pisses me off that a stat that was so sacred as I was growing up, has become so tarnished.
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I can see that... I really can... hell, it pisses me off and I'm significantly younger...
 
I too long for simpler days when only-

Ruth
Mays
Aaron
Robinson
Mantle
Ott
Foxx
Matthews
Killebrew
McCovey
Williams
and Banks

had either 500+ Home Runs, or were in pursuit of 500 HR's
 
griffey was never linked to roids, but i guess never was bagwell...

griffey just had that pretty swing man, the natural for sure, and he never got all jacked up did he? i always remember him being a skinny fella
 
...you mean including that Griffey was skinny?...and the notion that PED users are jacked up?...lol.

...unfortunately, no one is above suspicion...Griffey was very likable which helps him in the eyes of a lot of people. Was he a PED user? Who knows?...but if he were outed for being a user, I would not be surprised.
 
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yankeesince59 said:
...you mean including that Griffey was skinny?...and the notion that PED users are jacked up?...lol.

...unfortunately, no one is above suspicion...Griffey was very likable which helps him in the eyes of a lot of people. Was he a PED user? Who knows?...but if he were outed for being a user, I would not be surprised.
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Ron I enjoyed the entire link until the very last line & said to myself with much question..."WHAT THE FUCK?' But reading your final post here I find that we are totally & completely in agreement. And to those ignoramuses who think that bulk equals PEDs please think of the culprits & there individual mass or lack of same.
 
3RA1N1AC said:
griffey was never linked to roids, but i guess never was bagwell...

griffey just had that pretty swing man, the natural for sure, and he never got all jacked up did he? i always remember him being a skinny fella
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exactly... he had such a sweet swing, and seemed so natural... hard to believe he was dirty...
 
yankeesince59 said:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402223-why-do-we-always-assume-ken-griffey-jr-didnt-use-steroids
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3RA1N1AC said:
that article reads as if it was written by a sufferer of battered women syndrome

I happen to still possess the abillity to use my brain when forming judgments though, and am not yet a slave to my emotions of fear and betrayal
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I have to agree with 3RA1N1AC on this... it just screamed as if it was just trying to grab straws and pose a theory with no proof or even hints of proof... Not buying that...

AND.... if he were on PEDs, wouldn't he have been more likely to stay on the field more often from 30 to 37???

I would think the not being able to overcome the injuries is more a testament to being clean than anything... if he were a roider, her would have broken down at the end, not for a 7 year stretch...

just my 2 cents...
 
...very unfortunate timeline in the history of the game...there's just no way to know for sure who "inhaled" and who didn't. There are countless players who were users but were never caught and conversely, players who may have been clean but sadly are "suspected" because of the era they played in.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...very unfortunate timeline in the history of the game...there's just no way to know for sure who "inhaled" and who didn't. There are countless players who were users but were never caught and conversely, players who may have been clean but sadly are "suspected" because of the era they played in.
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no doubt about that... BUT.... I don't believe Griffey Jr. is one of them...
 
Hammerojustice said:
I have to agree with 3RA1N1AC on this... it just screamed as if it was just trying to grab straws and pose a theory with no proof or even hints of proof... Not buying that...

AND.... if he were on PEDs, wouldn't he have been more likely to stay on the field more often from 30 to 37???

I would think the not being able to overcome the injuries is more a testament to being clean than anything... if he were a roider, her would have broken down at the end, not for a 7 year stretch...

just my 2 cents...
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...this is not an argument of whether or not JR. was a PED user or not. The article was simply someone pointing to how easily we were fooled multiple times in the past. The writer was not trying to prove anything. Instead, he provided possible scenarios. I think we were all surprised when Arod's name first came out, I know I was...same with Pettitte...and Montero...and Cervelli, et al.
 
Hammerojustice said:
no doubt about that... BUT.... I don't believe Griffey Jr. is one of them...
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...not one person in this thread said that Griffey WAS. I certainly didn't. Again, the article simply offered another way of thinking. The individual reader can take from it what they choose.
 
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The problem I have with this subject is the language. Not all roids are PEDs, and PEDs can be a lot of things beyond anabolic steroids. And many of the substancesbon the WADA list are legitimate drugs that could be prescribed to someone recovering from an injury or to treat for a physiological imbalance.

There is sound medical theory for a pitcher to get growth hormone after an injury or surgery. Same with steroids, I know I had them prescribed after a major car accident, it was an alternative to surgery on my shoulder and rotator cuff. Now 9 months later I mean from not being able to lift a pencil to bench pressing 315lb....but I digress. We also had an unregulated supplement industry spiking drinks and powders with off label ingredients, or sharing time on filling/packaging equipment where someone else had had some sort of PED in their mix.

Of the 103 on the list we'll never see, I would best most were ingesting detectable agents inadvertently. And there are likely a substantial number of people in the last 30 years that knowingly took things that they knew were not detectable at that time.

Its impossible to know except for the idiots that have been caught or decided to come clean. And given the state of science, there is no way to be out ahead and testing pro actively. Tests are developed once a gap in the testing process is exposed. Lance Armstrong passed hundreds of tests, in a sport that had the most strict and comprehensive procedures. Sorry guys, this is going to continue until professional sports take a very different approach. I call it, Leveling the biochemical playing field. Test everyone in the league during ST, establish a testosterone baseline. The manliest guys are Max T. Then allow everyone to supplement to that level. Permit the use of other PEDs during periods of injury and rehab. This isn't the Olympics, these guys do it for money. Seal the record books at 1989. If the majority of your career was before the cutoff, you go in the old record book. The new record book is the modern era of baseball. This way the purists are treated with respect and we end the innuendo and speculation moving forward.
 
I don't think its a stretch to assume that 99.9% of ANYONE considered human will equate Steroids as a P. (performance) E. (enhancement) D. (Drug). Just saying.
 
Rick2583 said:
I don't think its a stretch to assume that 99.9% of ANYONE considered human will equate Steroids as a P. (performance) E. (enhancement) D. (Drug). Just saying.
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Define steroid Rick? That's my point Rick. A steroid is a class of organic molecules with a general ring structure based on its assembly from isoprenoid subunits. Which ones are good and bad, who gets to make that determination? Do you want to characterize them by effect? You ingest multiple steroids every day in a normal healthy diet.

Now define performance enhancing. The common bronchodilator called albuterol, aka the rescue inhaler for anyone with asthma...that is considered a PED. If you are an Olympic athlete, tough shit, don't breathe, as someone could misuse it and increase their normal lung capacity.

I'm sorry, its a freaking witch hunt. People toss around terms that they have absolutely no understanding what these substances are, what they are used for and what they can do. And by FDA definition, you can't get a use label for any compound without a clinical trial that produces measurable results in a double blind study. To say that certain compound are PEDs is in itself pure speculation. 99.9% of all humans are too fucking dumb and ignorant to even realize that they are dumb and ignorant.
 
totus44 said:
Define steroid Rick? That's my point Rick. A steroid is a class of organic molecules with a general ring structure based on its assembly from isoprenoid subunits. Which ones are good and bad, who gets to make that determination? Do you want to characterize them by effect? You ingest multiple steroids every day in a normal healthy diet.

Now define performance enhancing. The common bronchodilator called albuterol, aka the rescue inhaler for anyone with asthma...that is considered a PED. If you are an Olympic athlete, tough shit, don't breathe, as someone could misuse it and increase their normal lung capacity.

I'm sorry, its a freaking witch hunt. People toss around terms that they have absolutely no understanding what these substances are, what they are used for and what they can do. And by FDA definition, you can't get a use label for any compound without a clinical trial that produces measurable results in a double blind study. To say that certain compound are PEDs is in itself pure speculation. 99.9% of all humans are too fucking dumb and ignorant to even realize that they are dumb and ignorant.
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Totus with all due respect are we really going to do the tomato-taMAto thing. I mean ask people what they think steroids are, do you think they're going to say. "Well, do you mean websters version of steroids or are we talking about sports? & if you say sports they're going to respond P.E.D.s
 
Rick2583 said:
Why?................................seriously.
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As stated above...

If he were on PEDs, wouldn't he have been more likely to stay on the field more often from ages 30 to 37???

I would think the not being able to overcome the injuries is more a testament to being clean than anything... if he were a roider, her would have broken down at the end, not for a 7 year stretch...

Add to the fact that from the get go, he had the sweetest swing I've ever seen... that kind of swing would just drive the ball if connected... so........
 
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