Politics The Inherent Pitfalls of Tribalism. Vol. 1: Dogwhistles.

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Is the President a Racist?

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jonnyboy said:
People can only take the Trump blame game so far. When both sides are running around being complete dipshits maybe it’s time to look in the mirror rather than pointing the finger elsewhere. I see all these toxic, divisive people who clamor on about how divisive Trump is and it seems like they are just using it as an excuse to justify their own shit behavior.
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Yes, people use Trump to justify shitty behavior. That's entirely the point! That's exactly why you don't want a shitty person as president.

barfo
 
jonnyboy said:
People can only take the Trump blame game so far. When both sides are running around being complete dipshits maybe it’s time to look in the mirror rather than pointing the finger elsewhere. I see all these toxic, divisive people who clamor on about how divisive Trump is and it seems like they are just using it as an excuse to justify their own shit behavior.
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Trump "is a POS"....and "a war criminal".

EOM
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
So all I have to do is find a president I don’t like and do bad things and use that president to justify it and its the presidents fault. Good to know.
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That's not jumping to conclusions that's leap frogging to conclusions.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Is it? He’s basically on the premise that Trump is bad because people use his existence to justify their crappy behavior. So...
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No, he is saying that Trump is bad because of all the bad things that he does. Looks pretty much like straight forward logic to me.
So you're saying that because of legal action taken against the Trump Foundation, Trump University, Trump's racial decisions not to sell or rent to Blacks, his multitude of lies every day, his repeated violations of the Constitution and laws, his violation of the emoluments clause, his wild eyed spending binge, his tax cuts for the wealthy, his damage to the country and on and on and on and on make him not a shitty person?
 
Lanny said:
No, he is saying that Trump is bad because of all the bad things that he does. Looks pretty much like straight forward logic to me.
So you're saying that because of legal action taken against the Trump Foundation, Trump University, Trump's racial decisions not to sell or rent to Blacks, his multitude of lies every day, his repeated violations of the Constitution and laws, his violation of the emoluments clause, his wild eyed spending binge, his tax cuts for the wealthy, his damage to the country and on and on and on and on make him not a shitty person?
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Thats not what he said though so...
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Thats not what he said though so...
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I interpreted it to mean that the shitty behavior was referring to Trump's shitty behavior or shitty behavior instantiated by Trump followers.
That's another of Trump's shitty behavior that I left out and that's how he uses dog whistles to incite his cult to do shitty things.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
So all I have to do is find a president I don’t like and do bad things and use that president to justify it and its the presidents fault. Good to know.
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I don't think that's a plausible interpretation of what I said. Maybe if you'd said:

So all I have to do is find a president who is a shitty person and do bad things and use that president to justify it. Good to know.
Click to expand...

barfo
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
So all I have to do is find a president I don’t like and do bad things and use that president to justify it and its the presidents fault. Good to know.
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1. Trump is different than any President during my life. He truly is a villain in a literal sense. Racism is what I'm focussing on in this thread, but there are other things.

2. His verifiable racism emboldens people. So, say you have racist thoughts but all of society tells you that such thoughts are not okay and are against the moral code (or whatever you want to call it), say acting on it makes you a fanatic or a lunatic or a pariah. Society has this nifty ability to keep people in line, because there are consequences for such behavior. And here is where Trump is poison and here is the point of this whole thread: Trump tears down those walls and allows people to act on their worst tendencies without consequences. It's utter madness. I'd argue, and I'm here to argue, that supporting such a man detracts from who you are, regardless of your political alignment.
 
This thread is exhibit A of what is wrong with this country. You people make excuses for everything.
 
Sorry to anyone who reads my posts tonight. I'm deleting them, just a stressful day, should just get off my computer. Hope you guys have a good new years.
 
jonnyboy said:
People can only take the Trump blame game so far. When both sides are running around being complete dipshits maybe it’s time to look in the mirror rather than pointing the finger elsewhere. I see all these toxic, divisive people who clamor on about how divisive Trump is and it seems like they are just using it as an excuse to justify their own shit behavior.
Click to expand...

In the real world, minorities have left the left to support POTUS Trump in double digits due to already having their lives changed positively in large, measurable ways by his policies.

His economic policies have literally freed more slaves than Lincoln did.

He is the most admired man in America, because of his amazing success at uniting Americans and taking the yoke of socialism off their shoulders.
 
Propagandist said:
Yes, but that's a bigger, much muddier topic. It's also an example of the tribalism I'm talking about and the "he did it first" or "they do it too" attitude that does nothing but deepen the divide.

I'm arguing something that if we discuss it long enough, I'm sure we will all agree on: Trump is a racist. There is ample concrete evidence of this. Now, whether that matters to you is another matter. I know plenty of conservatives and I respect those who don't pretend that Trump is a good guy. Otherwise, it's disingenuous, and therefore masking what? Complicity? I just think people underestimate how frustrating it can be.

I mean, is the point of talking politics in the forum to burn the other side? To say "Haha! Got you!"? I don't think so. I like opposing positions as long as they are fair and honest. It takes trust to admit the obvious sometimes. And I'll make concessions. Try me. I feel like there is always a way to phrase your point so that will make sense to someone on the other side, so that they'll respect it. You just have to find it.
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Your claim that POTUS Trump is racist is absurd and unsupportable, as is your slander of his supporters who make up roughly half of America.

This is the new racism the left is creating, knowing that their party of victimhood will lazily embrace whatever party line allows them to escape personal responsibility for weakening our country and infringing on our basic freedom.

Only a racist would accuse half of the country of being racists.

Your OP is the dog whistle, your irrational hatred for your fellow countrymen is divisive and unproductive.

TRUMP CAKEWALK IN 2020!
 
MARIS61 said:
Your claim that POTUS Trump is racist is absurd and unsupportable, as is your slander of his supporters who make up roughly half of America.

This is the new racism the left is creating, knowing that their party of victimhood will lazily embrace whatever party line allows them to escape personal responsibility for weakening our country and infringing on our basic freedom.

Only a racist would accuse half of the country of being racists.

Your OP is the dog whistle, your irrational hatred for your fellow countrymen is divisive and unproductive.

TRUMP CAKEWALK IN 2020!
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I'm going to quote myself from a while ago if that's alright:

"Here are some things Trumps has said (aided by the internet):

-He called Haiti, El Salvador and African nations "shithole countries" and said all Haitians "have AIDS" and that once Nigerians saw the US they would never "go back to their huts."

-"...laziness is a trait in Blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not something they can control."

-He called for the reinstatement of the death penalty in a full-page ad regarding the Central Park Five, the black and latino teens who were found innocent (!) of a rape and murder, and when they were exonerated, completely exonerated, Trump still says they are guilty.

-All that Pocahontas stuff with Elizabeth Warren is crazy racist wow.

-How about the attempt at a "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States"? Wtf.

-"An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud."

-How about saying Mexicans are bringing drugs and crime and calling them rapists?!?!? Trump said of a federal judge from Indiana(!), Gonzalo Curiel, whose parents are Mexican, who presided over the Trump U lawsuits, "He’s a Mexican," he said. "We’re building a wall between here and Mexico." Former Speaker of the House Paul Ryan called the remarks a "textbook definition of a racist comment."

-Telling Tlaib and Omar to "go back" to the "broken" countries they come from. Geez. Texbook, again.

-The US department of Justice sued Trump for discriminating against blacks in their renting practices. What does Trump say to the Justice Department lawyer during his deposition? "You know, you don't want to live with them either."

-He pardoned Joe fucking Arpaio who was determined by the US Department of Justice to have overseen the worst pattern of racial profiling in US history, which included "extreme racial profiling and sadistic punishments that involved the torture, humiliation, and degradation of Latino inmates." Trump called him a "great American patriot" and pardoned him!

There is so so so much more, but I'm worn out.

Trump is worse than other people. He has been worse than other people and so that target that you mention is well deserved. The benefit of the doubt on him ran out in the 1970s.

EDIT: In my haste I forgot the treatment of the immigrants and the separation of children from parents (how inhumane is that?!?!). And all the infestation talk. People hear words like "infestation" and they get it."

I mean, come on. I didn't even mention the dogwhistle reaction concerning Charlottesville in which he called the surely Trump voting racists marching the the streets "very fine people."

A former employee of Trump's Castle in Atlantic City said: "When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor."

There is a treasure trove of this rotten stuff. There's really no debate, but feel free to try... You just can't suspend your disbelief indefinitely...

Listen @MARIS61 everyone seems to like you, but I've seldom read something meaningful or thoughtful from you, just a trolling level amount of mostly obscure right wing propaganda that no one reads. It reads like a schtick. You can point fingers all you want, but I'm not the one pigeonholing people. You are. I'm simply saying that one person, one Donald Trump, is a racist and it's not refutable. You can say that that means I'm calling half (you wish) the country racists, but I don't know what it says about them, honestly. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Regardless, at this point, they are complicit.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
This thread is exhibit A of what is wrong with this country. You people make excuses for everything.
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You're just trying to muddy the waters. It is okay to be open-minded.

Let's keep it simple. Answer this:

Do you think Trump is a racist?

I'm assuming you'll acknowledge he is, so the next question is:

Shouldn't that matter to the American people, like all of the American people?
 
Propagandist said:
You're just trying to muddy the waters. It is okay to be open-minded.

Let's keep it simple. Answer this:

Do you think Trump is a racist?

I'm assuming you'll acknowledge he is, so the next question is:

Shouldn't that matter to the American people, like all of the American people?
Click to expand...

I’ve steered clear of this thread because these things always devolve into pissing matches. But, hey, it’s a new year, the Blazers suck and we’ve gotta have something to talk about.

Do I think Trump is racist? I have no idea whether he has any personal animus based on race. I think he’s purely purely “Trumpist” however. I think he’s pretty much willing to use any issue and/or group of people to gain a political edge. Looking back on some of the things he said before entering politics, on things like abortion as an example, he had the exact opposite position of what he sold to the “evangelicals” to get their vote. He became a staunch border wall advocate to get the vote of far right wingers. I doubt he gives a rip either way personally on these issues, but he’s played his supporters like a master violinist with a Stradivarius.
 
e_blazer said:
I’ve steered clear of this thread because these things always devolve into pissing matches. But, hey, it’s a new year, the Blazers suck and we’ve gotta have something to talk about.

Do I think Trump is racist? I have no idea whether he has any personal animus based on race. I think he’s purely purely “Trumpist” however. I think he’s pretty much willing to use any issue and/or group of people to gain a political edge. Looking back on some of the things he said before entering politics, on things like abortion as an example, he had the exact opposite position of what he sold to the “evangelicals” to get their vote. He became a staunch border wall advocate to get the vote of far right wingers. I doubt he gives a rip either way personally on these issues, but he’s played his supporters like a master violinist with a Stradivarius.
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That's not a bad take at all. And I think you're right: he's certainly taken the "issues" and coalesced them. Interestingly, I think he's leaned into the race stuff a little heavier than expected because it's been well received by his base. I think you've figured out by now that my concern is that his base, some of which frequent these halls, don't seem to think it's significant.
 
Propagandist said:
I'm going to quote myself from a while ago if that's alright:

"Here are some things Trumps has said (aided by the internet):

-He called Haiti, El Salvador and African nations "shithole countries" and said all Haitians "have AIDS" and that once Nigerians saw the US they would never "go back to their huts."

-"...laziness is a trait in Blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not something they can control."

-He called for the reinstatement of the death penalty in a full-page ad regarding the Central Park Five, the black and latino teens who were found innocent (!) of a rape and murder, and when they were exonerated, completely exonerated, Trump still says they are guilty.

-All that Pocahontas stuff with Elizabeth Warren is crazy racist wow.

-How about the attempt at a "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States"? Wtf.

-"An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud."

-How about saying Mexicans are bringing drugs and crime and calling them rapists?!?!? Trump said of a federal judge from Indiana(!), Gonzalo Curiel, whose parents are Mexican, who presided over the Trump U lawsuits, "He’s a Mexican," he said. "We’re building a wall between here and Mexico." Former Speaker of the House Paul Ryan called the remarks a "textbook definition of a racist comment."

-Telling Tlaib and Omar to "go back" to the "broken" countries they come from. Geez. Texbook, again.

-The US department of Justice sued Trump for discriminating against blacks in their renting practices. What does Trump say to the Justice Department lawyer during his deposition? "You know, you don't want to live with them either."

-He pardoned Joe fucking Arpaio who was determined by the US Department of Justice to have overseen the worst pattern of racial profiling in US history, which included "extreme racial profiling and sadistic punishments that involved the torture, humiliation, and degradation of Latino inmates." Trump called him a "great American patriot" and pardoned him!

There is so so so much more, but I'm worn out.

Trump is worse than other people. He has been worse than other people and so that target that you mention is well deserved. The benefit of the doubt on him ran out in the 1970s.

EDIT: In my haste I forgot the treatment of the immigrants and the separation of children from parents (how inhumane is that?!?!). And all the infestation talk. People hear words like "infestation" and they get it."

I mean, come on. I didn't even mention the dogwhistle reaction concerning Charlottesville in which he called the surely Trump voting racists marching the the streets "very fine people."

A former employee of Trump's Castle in Atlantic City said: "When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor."

There is a treasure trove of this rotten stuff. There's really no debate, but feel free to try... You just can't suspend your disbelief indefinitely...

Listen @MARIS61 everyone seems to like you, but I've seldom read something meaningful or thoughtful from you, just a trolling level amount of mostly obscure right wing propaganda that no one reads. It reads like a schtick. You can point fingers all you want, but I'm not the one pigeonholing people. You are. I'm simply saying that one person, one Donald Trump, is a racist and it's not refutable. You can say that that means I'm calling half (you wish) the country racists, but I don't know what it says about them, honestly. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Regardless, at this point, they are complicit.
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Totally misrepresentative of anything he actually has said, in every instance you posted here. All misquotes. No racism.
 
e_blazer said:
I’ve steered clear of this thread because these things always devolve into pissing matches. But, hey, it’s a new year, the Blazers suck and we’ve gotta have something to talk about.

Do I think Trump is racist? I have no idea whether he has any personal animus based on race. I think he’s purely purely “Trumpist” however. I think he’s pretty much willing to use any issue and/or group of people to gain a political edge. Looking back on some of the things he said before entering politics, on things like abortion as an example, he had the exact opposite position of what he sold to the “evangelicals” to get their vote. He became a staunch border wall advocate to get the vote of far right wingers. I doubt he gives a rip either way personally on these issues, but he’s played his supporters like a master violinist with a Stradivarius.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say he's played his supporters at all, as he has fulfilled most of his promises to them already.

Check out how many activist judges have been replaced with conservative judges who follow the Constitution.
 
MARIS61 said:
I wouldn't say he's played his supporters at all, as he has fulfilled most of his promises to them already.

Check out how many activist judges have been replaced with conservative judges who follow the Constitution.
Click to expand...

How many new miles of big, beautiful wall have been built? How many of the 11 million undocumented immigrants have been sent home, let alone allowing some of the “good ones” to return? Has Roe v Wade been overturned?
 
MARIS61 said:
Totally misrepresentative of anything he actually has said, in every instance you posted here. All misquotes. No racism.
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Oh stop it. The racism is a known thing. You can't just say "Is not!" and have it go away. How, for example, might this be interpreted differently? "...laziness is a trait in Blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not something they can control." I mean, come on. The charade is boring. And the point isn't judges or gold stars or achievement awards. It's the classic: just because you can do something, doesn't me you should. Anyone (obviously) can ignore the awfulness of the President, but should they? I'm arguing no.
 
MARIS61 said:
In the real world, minorities have left the left to support POTUS Trump in double digits due to already having their lives changed positively in large, measurable ways by his policies.

His economic policies have literally freed more slaves than Lincoln did.

He is the most admired man in America, because of his amazing success at uniting Americans and taking the yoke of socialism off their shoulders.
Click to expand...
Gallup has Trump's Black support at 10%. What say you?

"Democrats dismiss the idea that Trump could make serious inroads. Trump's job-approval rating among black voters was 10 percent in the latest POLITICO/Morning Consult poll. And a Quinnipiac University survey released Tuesday showed the Democratic polling leader, former Vice President Joe Biden, leading Trump among black voters, 87 to 7 percent."
 
Propagandist said:
Oh stop it. The racism is a known thing. You can't just say "Is not!" and have it go away. How, for example, might this be interpreted differently? "...laziness is a trait in Blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not something they can control." I mean, come on. The charade is boring. And the point isn't judges or gold stars or achievement awards. It's the classic: just because you can do something, doesn't me you should. Anyone (obviously) can ignore the awfulness of the President, but should they? I'm arguing no.
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Trumpers' mantra; "Yeah, Trump may be a racist idiot,...but he's our racist idiot."
 
Trump supporters not only share his perceived values (which includes racism) but they get fanatical when he exhibits them. There is no changing their mind. They love everything he stands for even when his policies go against their own interest.
 
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