The Lillard Blazers peaked 2 seasons ago

[KSF-ERIC]

Remember how, when the Drexler Blazers lost to Jordan in the finals (after losing to Zeke and then Magic) we thought they'd be back, but it was first round exits from there on out? And then the 'Sheed Blazers battled the Shaq-Kobe Lakers to a standstill before running out of gas in game 7 of the WCF and we also thought we'd be back? Only - guess what - first round exits for years after? Well (and I think you can see where this is going)...

Realistically, Dame is at his very tip-top peak and has already probably started a decline, and there's no way we're going to get another superstar, let alone the TWO superstars you need nowadays. So, if he's suddenly decided he might not be a Blazer-for-life-through-thick-and-thin, it's time to let him fly free.

Add to that the fact that nobody is going to give us value for CJ (prove me wrong, NBA!) and I say:

TRADE DAME, KEEP CJ
Calm down, CJ-haterz - we just need to keep CJ for the first half of next season. He's at a low in value right now, but if he can start next season like he started this one, then some team is going to be tempted into offering us something of value, and once Dame is gone, it can be a package of picks (trading CJ for picks when we still have Dame would further piss him off, demonstrating that we're not serious about contending).

I'm ready for the Anfernee Simons Era to begin!

I did not think they’d be back after 1992. They were clearly worse in 92-93 and we’ve never been that close since. But that team had already been to Finals twice. I believe Dame still has a Finals in him.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

This thread is pretty bad to say the least.

 

[blazerkor]

I agree if the statement this thread is trying to make is that we overachieved by the most we will by getting to the conference finals with this roster. This roster has a lot of talent that does not fit together. I actually think on a well balanced team that CJ could be the second option on offense but that team would not include Dame. So, yeah this iteration of Dame's Blazers peaked at that conference finals but another roster with a lot of the pieces that are here right now could win a championship. It's just that the pieces that need to be moved would be those that were seen as foundational before right now.

 

[JoshuaHall]

If Lillard was traded, you’d have to fire Olshey first.
I have no faith in him getting the appropriate return.
Also, I stand by my stance that you tell Dame to shove it if he demands a trade. Don’t care about optics or blowback or players not wanting to come here (they already don’t come here so who gives a shit.) You play it NFL style.

“Unless we get equivalent or MORE value for you, you’re staying here. And I’m not talking future picks.”

And then if he goes all Harden mode, I start fining him for conduct detrimental to the team.

Then the last year of his contract I’ll trade him.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

So: to summarize:
1. Dame just wants to compete for a title.
2. Dame knows that we don't have the roster for that
3. There is literally nothing we can do with this roster to improve it enough to make it a contender.

Seems like, even if Dame is a Blazer to start the next season, he won't want to finish it as one.

 

[B-Roy]

So: to summarize:
1. Dame just wants to compete for a title.
2. Dame knows that we don't have the roster for that
3. There is literally nothing we can do with this roster to improve it enough to make it a contender.

Seems like, even if Dame is a Blazer to start the next season, he won't want to finish it as one.

You sound like someone that's too used to Neil Olshey. Bucks got Holiday and (almost) Bogdonavic last off season, with little to no tools, just a shit ton of picks.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

You sound like someone that's too used to Neil Olshey. Bucks got Holiday and (almost) Bogdonavic last off season, with little to no tools, just a shit ton of picks.

Yeah, good for them. Watch it not happen to us. I will bet you anything.
Besides which: pretty sure the Bucks don't make it to the Finals in the West.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm just sad at the idea that we mortgage our future for nothing. Picks are golddust for franchises like ours and you all want us to sell our future down the river for a shot that isn't going to come.
The only way the Lillard-era Blazers contend is if we draft better (Giannis, Donovan Mitchell, etc.). We blew it then and fucking things up worse isn't going to save us.

 

[B-Roy]

Yeah, good for them. Watch it not happen to us. I will bet you anything.
Besides which: pretty sure the Bucks don't make it to the Finals in the West.

If it doesn't happen it's cause Neil didn't empty the bank. Then we can all be happy watching Anfernee Simons put up 20 shots a game and getting the 4th pick in the draft.

I'm just sad at the idea that we mortgage our future for nothing. Picks are golddust for franchises like ours and you all want us to sell our future down the river for a shot that isn't going to come.
The only way the Lillard-era Blazers contend is if we draft better (Giannis, Donovan Mitchell, etc.). We blew it then and fucking things up worse isn't going to save us.

Cool, let's try and get another Damian Lillard in the draft. I'm sure with Neil's excellent track record we'll find the next one in no time.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

You sound like someone that's too used to Neil Olshey. Bucks got Holiday and (almost) Bogdonavic last off season, with little to no tools, just a shit ton of picks.

ALSO: Olshey already tried this last year and got us RoCo. Good move, but it cost us a shot at Saddiq Bey/Xavier Tillman LAST year and maybe somebody even better THIS year.
ALSO: Giannis + Middleton >> Dame + CJ. Maybe you could make an argument that they're about equal OFFENSIVELY (mayyyybe) but defensively? Lol squared.

 

[B-Roy]

ALSO: Olshey already tried this last year and got us RoCo. Good move, but it cost us a shot at Saddiq Bey/Xavier Tillman LAST year and maybe somebody even better THIS year.
ALSO: Giannis + Middletong >> Dame + CJ. Maybe you could make an argument that they're about equal OFFENSIVELY (mayyyybe) but defensively? Lol squared.

I'm not arguing that we will need to have the best roster in the league on paper in order to satisfy Dame. That is literally impossible. If that is what Dame means, trade him now, because it's an impossible task.

But we need one that HE has confidence in, because he CLEARLY is not confident in the current one. And I don't know what that is, but we can definitely field a better roster than the current one by mortgaging our future.

And yeah, it's fucking Olshey pushing the buttons, so high likelihood it doesn't happen. I'm on Dame's side on this one. Until Neil puts some action behind his words, I will just assume the worst - ie. we drag Dame along for another year and then trade him. Or maybe at the deadline, IDK. But Dame gone, soon.

EDIT: You say that as if Neil would have picked Bey and Tillman if he had a chance LOL. More likely we get Zeke Nnaji and Daniel Oturu or some shit. Seriously, are we arguing for Neil's draft acumen versus having Dame?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If it doesn't happen it's cause Neil didn't empty the bank.

Sigh. If it doesn't happen it's because we weren't good enough to begin with (it's not like adding Jrue Holiday to US makes us a contender).
People are drawing the wrong lesson from the Suns and the Bucks in the finals. The lesson they're drawing is "hey, ANYONE can do it!" rather than "Wow what an amazing tsunami of luck it takes to be a small market team in the finals!"
Next year, when the Nets stroll to the title, maybe people won't be so silly.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm not arguing that we will need to have the best roster in the league on paper in order to satisfy Dame. That is literally impossible. If that is what Dame means, trade him now, because it's an impossible task.

But we need one that HE has confidence in, because he CLEARLY is not confident in the current one. And I don't know what that is, but we can definitely field a better roster than the current one by mortgaging our future.

And yeah, it's fucking Olshey pushing the buttons, so high likelihood it doesn't happen. I'm on Dame's side on this one. Until Neil puts some action behind his words, I will just assume the worst - ie. we drag Dame along for another year and then trade him. Or maybe at the deadline, IDK. But Dame gone, soon.

We have not just the wrong GM, we have the wrong owner. If you're the Clippers you can mortgage your future because you can be sure that SOME star will always want to pull a Kawhi/Kyrie to your destination. If you're a small market team that mortgages your future, you're the Ted Stepien Cavs.

 

[B-Roy]

Sigh. If it doesn't happen it's because we weren't good enough to begin with (it's not like adding Jrue Holiday to US makes us a contender).
People are drawing the wrong lesson from the Suns and the Bucks in the finals. The lesson they're drawing is "hey, ANYONE can do it!" rather than "Wow what an amazing tsunami of luck it takes to be a small market team in the finals!"
Next year, when the Nets stroll to the title, maybe people won't be so silly.

Your barking up the wrong tree. I don't think we win a title even if we make one of these godfather moves. No move we could possibly make, even trading Dame for the number 1 pick, is going to give us a good shot at making the finals. The Sixers tanked for how many years? Got how many #1 picks? Where are they now? Out in the second round?

My stance (and Dame's as well, apparently), is put your best foot forward, do everything you possibly can so that if the right things break, you give yourself a shot. Right now, we cannot even say that we have a shot even if we got a stroke of luck. We lost to Denver who was without their second best player!

It really sounds like you'd rather take the OKC/Philly route. That's a fine stance to take. You are in favor of trading Dame now then? To make that clear?

 

[B-Roy]

We have not just the wrong GM, we have the wrong owner. If you're the Clippers you can mortgage your future because you can be sure that SOME star will always want to pull a Kawhi/Kyrie to your destination. If you're a small market team that mortgages your future, you're the Ted Stepien Cavs.

WTF are you talking about? The teams that have mortgaged their future have not done so with the intent of adding another superstar FA. It's not happened yet. It can't happen as long as they still have the guys they mortgaged their future for, because they won't have capspace for the entire duration of those huge deals.

And all is not lost even if you mortgage your future. Rockets traded 2 first and 2 swaps for Westbrook. They were able to recoup most of that when they traded Westbrook and Harden. We can still trade Dame and whoever else is on the roster in a tear down one year from now. For less, sure, but we aren't coming out with nothing.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

You're barking up the wrong tree. I don't think we win a title even if we make one of these godfather moves. No move we could possibly make, even trading Dame for the number 1 pick, is going to give us a good shot at making the finals. The Sixers tanked for how many years? Got how many #1 picks? Where are they now? Out in the second round?

Yeah, but they got within one bounce of the Finals, which is a fuck of a lot closer than we got. And they got there when their stars were way younger than Dame and CJ are now.

Look, we can keep Dame OR we can shoot for the finals (albeit years down the road). Let's be honest about it, though.

 

[B-Roy]

Yeah, but they got within one bounce of the Finals, which is a fuck of a lot closer than we got. And they got there when their stars were way younger than Dame and CJ are now.

Look, we can keep Dame OR we can shoot for the finals (albeit years down the road). Let's be honest about it, though.

Honest about what? I like watching a team that has a chance. I don't like watching a team that may have a chance in 5 years. Just me though. To me, there's not much difference in the chance of making the finals with a top 10 player on the books already versus trying to get top 10 player in the draft in the next 5 years, and then hoping you don't then fuck up the building years (like we did with Dame). You're free to sit in the latter camp though.

 

[bobf]

that doesn't fucking matter and is just deflection

can you come up with an example where trading the franchise player made the team better over the next 5 years? whether he asked for a trade or not

But is Dame going to get better or a lot worse over the next 5 years?

 

[Haakzilla]

But is Dame going to get better or a slowly worse over the next 5 years?

...both

 

[wizenheimer]

But is Dame going to get better or a lot worse over the next 5 years?

better?....likely not

"a lot worse"...? is that a joke? How is Chris Paul doing at 36?

Dame's contract is only for 4 more years by the way

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Honest about what? I like watching a team that has a chance.

Well then you shouldn't've been a Blazer fan since about 2000. What you mean is you like watching a team that you can convince yourself has a chance. But that's any team, given the irrationality of fans.

 

[bobf]

better?....likely not

"a lot worse"...? is that a joke? How is Chris Paul doing at 36?

Dame's contract is only for 4 more years by the way

Chris Paul is quite a bit worse. His peak BPM was 11.0 and he’s hovering around 4.5 the the past 3 years. And CP3 is exceptional for his age. He’s a more fundamentally complete player than Dame. He doesn’t have to blow by his defender to be effective. His game is not nearly as reliant on athleticism and quickness as Dame’s. Dame will be A LOT worse in 5 years.

 

[tykendo]

better?....likely not

"a lot worse"...? is that a joke? How is Chris Paul doing at 36?

Dame's contract is only for 4 more years by the way

Every year, people doubt Dame. And every year, they look the fool. He has worked hard every offseason to bring something new to his game, and I don't see any change to that going forward. Weird how Dame's career is supposedly gonna be downhill from here, but every other Superstar older than him has access to the fountain of youth. NOT BUYING WHAT DOUBTERS ARE SELLING. Because it smells like pure B.S.

 

[bobf]

Every year, people doubt Dame. And every year, they look the fool. He has worked hard every offseason to bring something new to his game, and I don't see any change to that going forward. Weird how Dame's career is supposedly gonna be downhill from here, but every other Superstar older than him has access to the fountain of youth. NOT BUYING WHAT DOUBTERS ARE SELLING. Because it smells like pure B.S.

I’ve never “doubted Dame”. You can add all you want to your game which can stem the tide to some degree but you can’t out pace Father Time. Virtually NO superstar at age 36 is nearly as good as they were at age 31. To what degree they decline depends largely on the type of game they play. Dame’s game relies heavily on quickness - on getting a step on his man. That’s how he gets to the rim for his highest efficiency shots, and the threat of that is how he gets a crack of daylight for his threes.

 

[wizenheimer]

I’ve never “doubted Dame”. You can add all you want to your game which came stem the tide to some degree but you can’t out pace Father Time. Virtually NO superstar at age 36 is nearly as good as they were at age 31. To what degree they decline depends largely on the type of game they play. Dame’s game relies heavily on quickness - on getting a step on his man. That’s how he gets to the rim for his highest efficiency shots, and the threat of that is how he gets a crack of daylight for his threes.

I'd say he relies on picks and screens more than his quickness. Besides that, he was quicker at 24 than he is now and yet, he's having his best seasons now

I think your way off base predicting Dame will be a "LOT" worse in 5 years. Besides that, the relevant timeline is 2-3 years, not 5

 

[bobf]

I'd say he relies on picks and screens more than his quickness. Besides that, he was quicker at 24 than he is now and yet, he's having his best seasons now

I think your way off base predicting Dame will be a "LOT" worse in 5 years. Besides that, the relevant timeline is 2-3 years, not 5

He was quicker at 24 but he’s smarter now and quick enough and he’s learned to finish at the rim with a sliver of advantage. How many times have you seen Dame finish at the rim when you thought the shot was gonna get blocked? When that sliver is gone...

Teams look forward in time when trading a 33-34 year old. 3 years from now Dame’s trade value will be less than half what it is now. 3 years from now it’s likely Dame will be noticeably not the same player. I’m not singling out Dame. If we had Steph Curry I’d be saying the same thing.

And I’m not saying I want to trade Dame. I’m just saying you can’t compare what we’d get to what we’ve gotten from Dame at age 28-30. We’re gonna have the 31-34 year old Dame.

CP3 is an anomaly. He can leisurely walk the ball into the paint and still be a quadruple threat to lob, kick out for a 3, shoot a 50% mid range, or once in a while go for the layup.

 

[tykendo]

He was quicker at 24 but he’s smarter now and quick enough and he’s learned to finish at the rim with a sliver of advantage. How many times have you seen Dame finish at the rim when you thought the shot was gonna get blocked? When that sliver is gone...

Teams look forward in time when trading a 33-34 year old. 3 years from now Dame’s trade value will be less than half what it is now. 3 years from now it’s likely Dame will be noticeably not the same player. I’m not singling out Dame. If we had Steph Curry I’d be saying the same thing.

And I’m not saying I want to trade Dame. I’m just saying you can’t compare what we’d get to what we’ve gotten from Dame at age 28-30. We’re gonna have the 31-34 year old Dame.

CP3 is an anomaly. He can leisurely walk the ball into the paint and still be a quadruple threat to lob, kick out for a 3, shoot a 50% mid range, or once in a while go for the layup.

You're still under estimating how good a player he is , and the training he does. He cross trains, which helps all parts of his body. And will make him stronger as he ages. I was never stronger, and in better shape than i was at 54. I was playing hoop vs, guys in their 3o's, and playing the best ball of my life. I told my 38 year old friend that i could hardly wait to reap havoc in a 50+ league. He said, forget that, keep playing younger guys. And i was just a weekend basketball warrior. I was one of the 2 strongest guys in my company, and i delivered high class Marvin Window & Door Systems. Just saying, because i didn't train even close to what Dame does. Some players are like a fine wine, they get better with age. Dame seems to be like this. I can see him going to 40 and still being a high quality player in the League. He's not some scrawny little dude. His window is wide open.

 

[wizenheimer]

He was quicker at 24 but he’s smarter now and quick enough and he’s learned to finish at the rim with a sliver of advantage. How many times have you seen Dame finish at the rim when you thought the shot was gonna get blocked? When that sliver is gone...

Teams look forward in time when trading a 33-34 year old. 3 years from now Dame’s trade value will be less than half what it is now. 3 years from now it’s likely Dame will be noticeably not the same player. I’m not singling out Dame. If we had Steph Curry I’d be saying the same thing.

And I’m not saying I want to trade Dame. I’m just saying you can’t compare what we’d get to what we’ve gotten from Dame at age 28-30. We’re gonna have the 31-34 year old Dame.

CP3 is an anomaly. He can leisurely walk the ball into the paint and still be a quadruple threat to lob, kick out for a 3, shoot a 50% mid range, or once in a while go for the layup.

just noting that the post of mine you initially responded to was when I said that teams don't trade their franchise players, after a trade demand, and get better over the next 5 seasons. It just doesn't happen. Teams get worse. Utah got worse after it traded Deron Williams; Denver got worse after Melo; Indiana after PG13; Pels after CP3 and AD; Chicago after Butler; Spurs after Kawhi.

if it comes to the nuclear option of having to trade Dame, I hope for 2 things: one is that Olshey isn't the GM any more; the other is that the Blazers use the opportunity to fully rebuild by trading CJ, Nurkic, and any other decent player over 24. Load up on picks from the trade and maximize their best asset which would be a couple of years of suckage and high lottery picks

 

[royo]

Every year, people doubt Dame. And every year, they look the fool. He has worked hard every offseason to bring something new to his game, and I don't see any change to that going forward. Weird how Dame's career is supposedly gonna be downhill from here, but every other Superstar older than him has access to the fountain of youth. NOT BUYING WHAT DOUBTERS ARE SELLING. Because it smells like pure B.S.

I see exactly the same in Dame. I believe, that next season he's gonna have much more proper star treatment from referees and that, along with usual "new season, new skill" will wind him level up again.

 

[bobf]

You're still under estimating how good a player he is , and the training he does. He cross trains, which helps all parts of his body. And will make him stronger as he ages. I was never stronger, and in better shape than i was at 54. I was playing hoop vs, guys in their 3o's, and playing the best ball of my life. I told my 38 year old friend that i could hardly wait to reap havoc in a 50+ league. He said, forget that, keep playing younger guys. And i was just a weekend basketball warrior. I was one of the 2 strongest guys in my company, and i delivered high class Marvin Window & Door Systems. Just saying, because i didn't train even close to what Dame does. Some players are like a fine wine, they get better with age. Dame seems to be like this. I can see him going to 40 and still being a high quality player in the League. He's not some scrawny little dude. His window is wide open.

I’d say if you had worked out at ages 24-30 like you did at 54 you wouldn’t be able to compete with your younger self. There’s a reason you don’t see 40 year old NBA superstars.