The "Making Playoffs Means Mediocrity" Myth

[Mediocre Man]

Exactly but they were not ours, (Other than Clyde at number #14) and Buck who we got for Bowie, we got them without having a high lottery pick. So there is an argument that can be made that we don't need to hit rock bottom in order to get to the top.

As for the Clippers, yes they traded lottery picks for Cp3, but I think we can all agree that we can't rely on another New Orleans situation to occur. Plus the LA market is a big part of him re-signing. (If he does)

Except Paul Allen isn't going to have a 100 million dollar payroll again. Also, acquiring those players took assets

 

[Mediocre Man]

Word, some serious truth to that.

Your Perspective = Your Reality

 

[BrianFromWA]

MM, what do you see about Matt Bonner (plays heavily for the 19-8 SAS), Steve Novak (20-25mpg for the 19-6 NYK) and Scalabrine (started for the world champs a couple of years back)--among others--that suggests that Babbitt on a "real team" wouldn't get any playing time?

Or for that matter, Rashard Lewis, Mike Miller, Kyle Korver, etc...?

 

[Mediocre Man]

MM, what do you see about Matt Bonner (plays heavily for the 19-8 SAS), Steve Novak (20-25mpg for the 19-6 NYK) and Scalabrine (started for the world champs a couple of years back)--among others--that suggests that Babbitt on a "real team" wouldn't get any playing time?

Or for that matter, Rashard Lewis, Mike Miller, Kyle Korver, etc...?

I see a team in SA with three HOFers. I see a team in NY with 3 HOFers. I see a team in BOS with 3 HOFers

Babbitt comment might have been overstated, but while I like Luke, he's not a very good NBA player

 

[BrianFromWA]

Gotcha. I'm not saying he's an all-star, I'm saying he has a skill that many successful teams seem to incorporate (at what looks like a purposeful drop in "talent"), and that he's useful to someone (maybe not a middling team with 5 rookies that will be a stretch just to make the playoffs, but still...)

 

[Pinwheel1]

Except Paul Allen isn't going to have a 100 million dollar payroll again. Also, acquiring those players took assets

Portland did not have a 100 million payroll in the 90's. But my point is that for 25 of 26 years they made the playoffs. The year they took Bowie (which they traded for Buck) they even made the playoffs. It wasn't even our pick. So they were able to acquire assets through all those years in order to make the conference finals. Many other "frequent lottery" teams did not.

Now I admit things are different now in terms of acquiring assets. I will give you that. But I am not sold on the theory that "losing breeds winning". It still comes down to a lot of luck when it comes to the lottery. (and yeah I know you have to make your own luck)

 

[KingSpeed]

Um....the 2009 champs were in the finals in 2008.

Learn the game then post

You're right. Skipped 08 in my head. It's still holds my point. Out in first round to Finals in one year.

Looking at Derrick Rose is perfect.

Rose was the 1ST PICK in the draft

In a weak eastern conference, they made the playoffs his first and second year

Then signed a top tier FA in Carlos Boozer and went to the ECF

Also in 2007, they were bad enough to draft Joakim Noah

So before they were real competitors, they had Rose, Noah and Boozer


You have to be bad before you can be good

Aldridge is better than Boozer. JJ is comparable to Noah. Lillard is our superstar.

Every once and a while you surprise Kingspeed! Solid post, prospective is everything. Repped.

Thank you

At some point we will all have to agree to disagree on this subject. No matter how many ways we look at it, there is no proven right way. There are many example of losing and never winning the big prize and there are examples of perennial lottery teams getting to the conference championships with the right pick.

The Blazers have been to the conference championship 4 times since 1990. Little of which was from being in the lottery.

.

If you're including 90, we've been there 5 times: 90, 91, 92, 99, 00

 

[Pinwheel1]

Good catch. I forgot about the JR Rider year when we lost to the Spurs.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Unless you are a "destination team", free agency is fools' gold. The best the Blazers can hope for is to over-pay for Matthews caliber talent.

Hitting a home run in the trade market? Bloody tough to do.

The Blazers are largely in this position because their scouting/drafting has sucked for so long. The sad thing is, that is the easiest problem to fix.

Bottom line: getting a high draft pick is no guarantee.....but it is the least of evils. This roster is in DESPERATE need of a talent upgrade.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Portland did not have a 100 million payroll in the 90's. But my point is that for 25 of 26 years they made the playoffs. The year they took Bowie (which they traded for Buck) they even made the playoffs. It wasn't even our pick. So they were able to acquire assets through all those years in order to make the conference finals. Many other "frequent lottery" teams did not.

Now I admit things are different now in terms of acquiring assets. I will give you that. But I am not sold on the theory that "losing breeds winning". It still comes down to a lot of luck when it comes to the lottery. (and yeah I know you have to make your own luck)

During the 1990s and the early 2000s (decade), the team was successful both on the court and in the box office—twice making it to the Western Conference finals—but a series of questionable and expensive player acquisitions caused many fans to sour on the team, by then derisively called the "Jail Blazers."[4] In addition, the team payroll skyrocketed to over $100 million.

 

[Mediocre Man]

You're right. Skipped 08 in my head. It's still holds my point. Out in first round to Finals in one year.



Aldridge is better than Boozer. JJ is comparable to Noah. Lillard is our superstar.



Thank you



If you're including 90, we've been there 5 times: 90, 91, 92, 99, 00

C'mon Eric, I like Lillard as well, but the kid is not a superstar at this point, and might not ever be

 

[Pinwheel1]

During the 1990s and the early 2000s (decade), the team was successful both on the court and in the box office—twice making it to the Western Conference finals—but a series of questionable and expensive player acquisitions caused many fans to sour on the team, by then derisively called the "Jail Blazers."[4] In addition, the team payroll skyrocketed to over $100 million.

Yeah around 2000, Not the 1990's. And certainly not 1990-92 when they went to the WC finals three straight years with picks other than Buck and Clyde at 14......late draft picks (Porter, Jerome, Duck, Ainge, Cliff, Drazen)

But does it really matter? Trader Bob went overboard. He put together a good team but kept adding more. He didn't know when to stop. Or didn't think he had to.

 

[HailBlazers]

Your Perspective = Your Reality

Glad to see you're catching on. Only God knows the truth.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I completely understand I am all but alone on this island, but history shows you need to get lucky to be good. Most teams, especially small market teams, do that through the draft in today's NBA

 

[magnifier661]

I completely understand I am all but alone on this island, but history shows you need to get lucky to be good. Most teams, especially small market teams, do that through the draft in today's NBA

I thought we did get lucky? I mean who would have thought that we would ever work a deal with jersey for their #6 pick? Aldridge was a good pick up and batum late first rounder was a steal.

 

[magnifier661]

C'mon Eric, I like Lillard as well, but the kid is not a superstar at this point, and might not ever be

That remains to be seen. What I do know is he definitely has the skill and demeanor to be one.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I thought we did get lucky? I mean who would have thought that we would ever work a deal with jersey for their #6 pick? Aldridge was a good pick up and batum late first rounder was a steal.

When one of those turns into a superstar then I will agree with you

 

[3RA1N1AC]

When one of those turns into a superstar then I will agree with you

who is a superstar?

 

[Blaze01]

I completely understand I am all but alone on this island, but history shows you need to get lucky to be good. Most teams, especially small market teams, do that through the draft in today's NBA

You are not on an island, and you are 100% completely correct...

How about this team MAKE THE PLAYOFFS, and then actually WIN IN THE 1st ROUND before people here start predicting NBA championships? What a concept....

I don't think a team with LA, Batum, Lillard & Matthews is anywhere near a top echelon team...not now, not 5 years from now....

 

[KingSpeed]

C'mon Eric, I like Lillard as well, but the kid is not a superstar at this point, and might not ever be

He is a superstar level talent. He is having a much better rookie season than other superstars like KG, Kobe, and Wade did. 18/6 and a game winner in 23 games? He is definitely on track to be a superstar, depending on what you think is a superstar. He's playing better than Roy did too. He has an outside shot at becoming an All Star this season.

 

[Pinwheel1]

You are not on an island, and you are 100% completely correct...

How about this team MAKE THE PLAYOFFS, and then actually WIN IN THE 1st ROUND before people here start predicting NBA championships? What a concept....

I don't think a team with LA, Batum, Lillard & Matthews is anywhere near a top echelon team...not now, not 5 years from now....

I think we all realize that. The point of the discussion is how do we get better. Is sucking a few more years and getting lucky in the draft going to do the trick? Or can we do t by being mediocre and getting lucky. Both strategies have failed and both have worked. However one is more frustrating and painful. (IMO)

 

[Mediocre Man]

He is a superstar level talent. He is having a much better rookie season than other superstars like KG, Kobe, and Wade did. 18/6 and a game winner in 23 games? He is definitely on track to be a superstar, depending on what you think is a superstar. He's playing better than Roy did too. He has an outside shot at becoming an All Star this season.

Says who? Thorpe just did an entire piece saying he was not quite in that tier

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think we all realize that. The point of the discussion is how do we get better. Is sucking a few more years and getting lucky in the draft going to do the trick? Or can we do t by being mediocre and getting lucky. Both strategies have failed and both have worked. However one is more frustrating and painful. (IMO)

How has being mediocre and getting lucky worked? For who? Not trying to be difficult, I can't think of anyone other than maybe the Pistons

 

[Pinwheel1]

How has being mediocre and getting lucky worked? For who? Not trying to be difficult, I can't think of anyone other than maybe the Pistons

if we are talking conference finals then.......Portland. We went from mediocre to a top team. 5 times.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

this same old tired argument

 

[Mediocre Man]

if we are talking conference finals then.......Portland. We went from mediocre to a top team. 5 times.

We weren't lucky though. That was also a very different Paul Allen

 

[KingSpeed]

Says who? Thorpe just did an entire piece saying he was not quite in that tier

Apparently you didn't read the full article. Thorpe said this at the end of the article: "But it's clear he has a chance to get to the level of Rose, Westbrook or Irving, which is saying a lot."

 

[BlazerWookee]

Unless you are a "destination team", free agency is fools' gold. The best the Blazers can hope for is to over-pay for Matthews caliber talent.

Bollocks. Hibbert signed the offer sheet, as did Millsap. Each was willing to come here, but his team matched our offer.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Bollocks. Hibbert signed the offer sheet, as did Millsap. Each was willing to come here, but his team matched our offer.

Yeah there are alot of good players that would sign with the Blazers (or anyone for that matter) if we were one of the few with available money. It's the super stars that only a few teams get. But like the lottery, it's pretty much "right time at the right place". So that's why I think the only thing you can do is keep building assets and hope you can get the right trade. But that doesn't necessarily mean sucking so bad you get a top pick.

Utah has made a nice effort. Right now they have stocked up on bigs. (Kanter, Favors, and Jefferson) it will be interesting to see what they can pull off between now and July to help their future.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Bollocks. Hibbert signed the offer sheet, as did Millsap. Each was willing to come here, but his team matched our offer.

Have you looked at Hibberts stats lately? He used Portland to leverage a deal he isn't close to living up to. We actually dodged a bullet on that one!