Politics The official presidential election prediction thread!

[Denny Crane]

Learn your history. You have access to the same search engines I do. And as smart as you are, you really should know.

That wasn't put on our money until 1956.

Who landed at Plymouth Rock?
Who is Lord Baltimore?

 

[blue32]

Who landed at Plymouth Rock?
Who is Lord Baltimore?

/feverishly slamming keys into google search engine../

 

[Wizard Mentor]

538 says Clinton in a landslide:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

 

[riverman]

How did the country get so Christian then?

they made babies and adopted kids from everywhere....Catholics populated the west pretty quickly

 

[MarAzul]

Learn your history. You have access to the same search engines I do. And as smart as you are, you really should know.

That wasn't put on our money until 1956.

umm, Learn your history indeed!

"In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. "
http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

Another one of Eisenhower"s examples of mindlessness. The pledge is suppose to be a bringing together moment, for people of a country created of individual states, not pledge to God.

"IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin."
"The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938"
https://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx

 

[MarAzul]

Also, most of the founding fathers weren't Christian.

How did the country get so Christian then?

Actually there has not been a Christian religion in centuries. Many different Churches devoted to the God of Abraham, but with a wide range of beliefs, some closer to the Torah, and some closer to the New testament. Most of the founding father did belong to one of these different Churches. One Founder, often touted as critical of religion, Thomas Jefferson wrote what is known as the Jefferson Bible. While calling him a Diest might be some what accurate, I think, perhaps even a Pantheist, saying a the man wasn't a Christian, is purely speculation. It doesn't seem to me that a man would rearrange the Bible more to his liking and not have some Christian leanings.

From the site dviss referenced;

"In short, while America did not have a Christian Founding in the sense of creating a theocracy, its Founding was deeply shaped by Christian moral truths"

This seems to be very accurate.

 

[Chris Craig]

Ah well the explanation make all the difference in the world. Religion is not what is wrong, it is those who abuse religion that are wrong. I totally agree.

And I also agree with you that it is little too far, that one must accept Jesus as God. I am not sure he taught we go to hell if we do not though. It seems the Pope has seen fit to accept the idea that the Jews may have have a prior exception due to their prior covenant. I am sort of hoping there is a little wiggle room for some of the rest of hard heads.

I used the term exclusiveness to mean excluding other people, not an exclusive God.

Where my mind was going with this tangent, is that I think religion and politics need to be completely exclusive of one another....it is being abused by right wing finatics, to create laws based on religious beliefs. Most of the laws Pence enacted as governor of Indiana were because he thought homosexuality and abortions were wrong because of his religious beliefs....like Tim Kaine said, not that he's the best to quote, but hey, during the vice presidential debate, he talked about how he didn't want to have anyone put to death while he was Governor of Virginia because his religion is against the death penalty ( though I thought Catholics loved that stuff) anway, he allowed it to happen because it's the law, and the law and his religion are two separate things.

 

[MarAzul]

I think religion and politics need to be completely exclusive of one another

Well religion and politics have always been hand in hand. This country was the first to insist (The First Amendment's Establishment Clause)
that we not use any specific religion over others in making law.

abused by right wing finatics, to create laws based on religious beliefs

Well trying to protect ones religious freedom is not the same as imposing religious beliefs.

homosexuality and abortions were wrong because of his religious beliefs

I guess I don't know what grievance to homosexuality causes you trouble. But many people feel abortion is the same as murder which is not legal. I can't support this view, because I think it is a worse crime to force a woman to have a child she does not want nor intend to care for as required to create a human being.
Not only is the crime worse, it does not work even with all the best intentions. It seems the evidence is all around us.

Governor of Virginia because his religion is against the death penalty

I heard him says this and I thought it wrong. I did not know Catholics were against the death penalty.

 

[Chris Craig]

Well religion and politics have always been hand in hand. This country was the first to insist (The First Amendment's Establishment Clause)
that we not use any specific religion over others in making law.


Well trying to protect ones religious freedom is not the same as imposing religious beliefs.


I guess I don't know what grievance to homosexuality causes you trouble. But many people feel abortion is the same as murder which is not legal. I can't support this view, because I think it is a worse crime to force a woman to have a child she does not want nor intend to care for as required to create a human being.
Not only is the crime worse, it does not work even with all the best intentions. It seems the evidence is all around us.



I heard him says this and I thought it wrong. I did not know Catholics were against the death penalty.

I know they've been hand in hand. That's the problem. Creating laws based on any religion is imposing those beliefs or that religion on others. Laws like the once Pence enacted are not in trying to protect his religious beliefs, but in trying to impose them on others, who may no believe in or practice his religion.

In regards to homosexuality, while I am not homosexual, or do I believe in it, it's not my right or anyone else's to judge those who are. I say as long as it is not hurting others, let people do what they will do. Politicians who follow Christianity need to stop being hipocrits...the very book from which they preach says not to judge lest thee themselves be judged.
I am actually personally against abortion, I don't believe in it. I think people, both men and women should be responsible during sex. If you don't want a kid use protection on both sides. I understand there are situations, like per say a woman getting raped and becoming impregnated by her rapist. It's not her fault, and its understandable that she probably doesn't want a rapists baby...maybe give it up for adoption...but hey that's the womans right not mine.

I was wondering about cathlotics too. I thought they liked seeing bad people burn in hell.

 

[MarAzul]

Laws like the once Pence enacted are not in trying to protect his religious beliefs, but in trying to impose them on others, who may no believe in or practice his religion.

I guess I don't know the law you have in mind.

it's not my right or anyone else's to judge those who are.

I am with you sir.

the very book from which they preach says not to judge lest thee themselves be judged.

Yes again. Although I think it would help a man walk the line in not judging if we were not force to hear what we would prefer not to hear. I never ask about a persons preference,
and I prefer not to be told.

I am actually personally against abortion

Me too. The idea is appalling.

.but hey that's the womans right not mine

True enough. It also should have been left to the States and let people vote with their feet. Or an actual Constitutional amendment passed.
The court ruling is utter bullshit, contrived and makes a mockery of the court.

 

[riverman]

I never ask about a persons preference,
and I prefer not to be told.

Trump is your man! I think the threads you engage in in OT here are filled with personal preferences...and that you express them as much as I do or barfo or Denny......that's the whole point of topics up for discussion...if you post about an event in history, I usually enjoy it because you're obviously interested in history or theology....but when it comes to politics...you have strong personal opinions about the conservative, liberal conflicts that populate these boards. You've defined me recently as a classic case of something or other so......we continue whether we're cool or groovy or not...you basically said only smart people vote for Trump and most of us aren't smart enough to follow that path....that my friend, is judgement

 

[MarAzul]

Trump is your man!

Well River, my friend, you are way smart enough to get it.

I think the threads you engage in in OT here are filled with personal preferences

My use of the word preference was in response to Chris' reference to Homosexual. Perhaps preference is not the correct word but in any case it was not intended to cover all topics.

you're obviously interested in history or theology

Both, spot on.

when it comes to politics...you have strong personal opinions about the conservative, liberal conflicts that populate these boards

Gosh River, you are doing really well, except the conflict is not really about conservatives and liberals. It just appears this way. Long involve technical detail involved here, too much to type, reading what has already been written is required. http://www.keirsey.com/aboutkts2.aspx

You've defined me recently as a classic case of something or other so.

Yes, and it was not intended as a slight at all. Simply an observation which begins to cover the response to the quote immediately above.
My observation of you indicates you are a Classic "F" type personality, slightly over half the population has same characteristic. See the link

basically said only smart people vote for Trump

Not quite. Sly said my vote would not count in Oregon. I responded yes there are not enough smart ones here. Well forgive me, that isn't quite what I should have said, there aren't quite enough
"T" or Thinking types here.

Trump and most of us aren't smart enough to follow that path....that my friend, is judgement

Yes it is, but I might add, a very studied judgement. But again a long story here.

I did a poll of the members here a few years back. 31 members participated in the poll. Five members were "T" type individuals and all identified with being conservative.
24 identified with having the "F" characteristic and all identified with being liberal Two identified with having the "F" characteristic but identified with being conservative.
I pressed these last two a bit, one was just mistyped, and the other I believe mistyped himself intentionally (Magnifier).

I studied Psychology under Dr. Keirsey quite a few years ago now, in preparing to teach some Team Building classes. I sort of automatically type people every since then,
hence my comment about you being a classic case. It was not intended to insult, but I probably should have realized it would not stand alone. My apology.

 

[riverman]

Well River, my friend, you are way smart enough to get it.


My use of the word preference was in response to Chris' reference to Homosexual. Perhaps preference is not the correct word but in any case it was not intended to cover all topics.



Both, spot on.



Gosh River, you are doing really well, except the conflict is not really about conservatives and liberals. It just appears this way. Long involve technical detail involved here, too much to type, reading what has already been written is required. http://www.keirsey.com/aboutkts2.aspx



Yes, and it was not intended as a slight at all. Simply an observation which begins to cover the response to the quote immediately above.
My observation of you indicates you are a Classic "F" type personality, slightly over half the population has same characteristic. See the link


Not quite. Sly said my vote would not count in Oregon. I responded yes there are not enough smart ones here. Well forgive me, that isn't quite what I should have said, there aren't quite enough
"T" or Thinking types here.



Yes it is, but I might add, a very studied judgement. But again a long story here.

I did a poll of the members here a few years back. 31 members participated in the poll. Five members were "T" type individuals and all identified with being conservative.
24 identified with having the "F" characteristic and all identified with being liberal Two identified with having the "F" characteristic but identified with being conservative.
I pressed these last two a bit, one was just mistyped, and the other I believe mistyped himself intentionally (Magnifier).

I studied Psychology under Dr. Keirsey quite a few years ago now, in preparing to teach some Team Building classes. I sort of automatically type people every since then,
hence my comment about you being a classic case. It was not intended to insult, but I probably should have realized it would not stand alone. My apology.

I did pretty good for a Monday morning if I say so myself!

 

[Chris Craig]

Well River, my friend, you are way smart enough to get it.


My use of the word preference was in response to Chris' reference to Homosexual. Perhaps preference is not the correct word but in any case it was not intended to cover all topics.



Both, spot on.



Gosh River, you are doing really well, except the conflict is not really about conservatives and liberals. It just appears this way. Long involve technical detail involved here, too much to type, reading what has already been written is required. http://www.keirsey.com/aboutkts2.aspx



Yes, and it was not intended as a slight at all. Simply an observation which begins to cover the response to the quote immediately above.
My observation of you indicates you are a Classic "F" type personality, slightly over half the population has same characteristic. See the link


Not quite. Sly said my vote would not count in Oregon. I responded yes there are not enough smart ones here. Well forgive me, that isn't quite what I should have said, there aren't quite enough
"T" or Thinking types here.



Yes it is, but I might add, a very studied judgement. But again a long story here.

I did a poll of the members here a few years back. 31 members participated in the poll. Five members were "T" type individuals and all identified with being conservative.
24 identified with having the "F" characteristic and all identified with being liberal Two identified with having the "F" characteristic but identified with being conservative.
I pressed these last two a bit, one was just mistyped, and the other I believe mistyped himself intentionally (Magnifier).

I studied Psychology under Dr. Keirsey quite a few years ago now, in preparing to teach some Team Building classes. I sort of automatically type people every since then,
hence my comment about you being a classic case. It was not intended to insult, but I probably should have realized it would not stand alone. My apology.

So in your classification I'd be an F type?

 

[Chris Craig]

I always thought rivermans posts were more driven by thinking then feeling, but hey

 

[MarAzul]

So in your classification I'd be an F type?

I don't know about you. You come off like the liberals liberal, but you agree with me far too often. Why don't you take the test and tell us the result?

 

[Chris Craig]

I don't know about you. You come off like the liberals liberal, but you agree with me far too often. Why don't you take the test and tell us the result?

Will do

 

[Chris Craig]

INFJ(Itroverted iNtuitive, Feeling, Judging) apparently I am part of 1% of population who is such...crazy

 

[MarAzul]

INFJ(Itroverted iNtuitive, Feeling, Judging) apparently I am part of 1% of population who is such...crazy

Interesting. I think you will enjoy reading more about this and learning more about this INFJ character. 1 percent hey? Me too, INTP. Not many around, I don't personally know another person of either type. I do have a brother in law that is an INFP another 1 % type. The other in the 1% group is the INTJ , don't know any of these either.

Any way, you come by your liberal bent naturally, I shall refrain from attempting to educate you. There can not be a less rewarding task, than attempting to change a person's basic character.

Oops! I forgot, my daughter is an INFJ.

 

[barfo]

Me too, INTP. Not many around, I don't personally know another person of either type.

Here's something that will ruin your enthusiasm for Myers-Briggs altogether.

I'm also an INTP.

barfo

 

[Chris Craig]

Here's something that will ruin your enthusiasm for Myers-Briggs altogether.

I'm also an INTP.

barfo

Now it all makes sense

 

[MarAzul]

Here's something that will ruin your enthusiasm for Myers-Briggs altogether.

I'm also an INTP.

barfo

Ha! Well perhaps you best continue to work your side of the street!

Are you sure you have the T and F part figured out? You sure are out of step with being a T.
Try the Keirsey Temperament test.

 

[barfo]

Ha! Well perhaps you best continue to work your side of the street!

Are you sure you have the T and F part figured out? You sure are out of step with being a T.
Try the Keirsey Temperament test.

I'll check that one out. But I'm very far from being an F.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

I'm very far from being an F.

By what measurement? Every post indicates otherwise.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

By what measurement? Every post indicates otherwise.

Barfo self identifies as T.

 

[Chris Craig]

Donald trump loses election, pursues acting career...

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[crandc]

Not only is Clinton leading big in polls, she has a vastly superior ground game. Clinton supporters are going door to door to get out the "maybe" voters. Starting Saturday before election day, supporters in "safe" states will be on phones for 4 days calling voters in swing states to be sure they know where their polling places are (surprising number don't), what voting hours are, ask if they need rides to polling place, and people will be on hand to offer lifts to those who need rides. None of this is fun or exciting. Not like going to a rally filled with white people screaming "lock her up" and waving Confederate flags. It's drudgery. It also works.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Some lying piece of shit that doesn't really give a damn about most of the people will be elected president, while the pious right and the Portlandia left continue to distract themselves by arguing about things that don't really matter, and 4 years later, after nothing has changed, we get to watch the show all over again, wondering who is actually running this country.

How's that for a prediction?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Some lying piece of shit that doesn't really give a damn about most of the people will be elected president, while the pious right and the Portlandia left continue to distract themselves by arguing about things that don't really matter, and 4 years later, after nothing has changed, we get to watch the show all over again, wondering who is actually running this country.

How's that for a prediction?

You hate America, you married a Canadian.