The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread!

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Ed O said:
I wouldn't mind, either, but any restriction on payment or benefits that the owners (as a group) imposed on the players individually would be anticompetitive, monopolistic behavior. The courts would be much more likely to reward players triple damages for any imposition of a salary cap, a maximum salary, or restrictions on free agency (including the NBA draft).

I don't see the owners doing that; they're better shutting things down until there's clarity one way or the other.

Ed O.
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You are assuming that the owners are not going to be realistic in their proposal. What if they adopted a pay structure like the MLS? Think the players then form a union to fight for the liberties they gave up?
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
You are assuming that the owners are not going to be realistic in their proposal. What if they adopted a pay structure like the MLS? Think the players then form a union to fight for the liberties they gave up?
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I think (although I might be incorrect) that MLS has been found to be a single entity competing in the global marketplace for players... a single entity (whether it's Nike or MLS or the NBA front office) can set standards for how much it will or will not pay employees.

A collection of businesses (like the NBA franchises) cannot do that, and I don't think they can whether it's "realistic" or not (I'm not mocking your use of the word, just to clarify... I know I can sound snarky sometimes).

I didn't follow the latest MLS labor issues that closely recently, so I might have old/bad information.

Ed O.
 
I thought NBA players playing overseas weakened their collective bargaining position. It turns out, it may weaken their legal claims against the NBA. I really do hope LaMarcus and Wesley sign foreign contracts.
 
Ed O said:
A collection of businesses (like the NBA franchises) cannot do that, and I don't think they can whether it's "realistic" or not (I'm not mocking your use of the word, just to clarify... I know I can sound snarky sometimes).


Ed O.
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Point taken without thinking you are too uppity. : )

The NBA though is not a collection of 30 business comparable to the independant burger joints like Wendys vs Mc Donanalds vs Burger King etc. They are 30 entities operating within a set of rules to compensate players fairly while making each franchise able to compete with the other to make a sellable product. The current setup favors the players unfairly since the owners are bidding up the price of players domestically when no other market for their services exist. I do not think owners should have absolute power, but there has to be a happy medium. The Lebron/Carmelo fiascos this summer were the nails in the coffin of the current system.
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
The NBA though is not a collection of 30 business comparable to the independant burger joints like Wendys vs Mc Donanalds vs Burger King etc. They are 30 entities operating within a set of rules to compensate players fairly while making each franchise able to compete with the other to make a sellable product. The current setup favors the players unfairly since the owners are bidding up the price of players domestically when no other market for their services exist. I do not think owners should have absolute power, but there has to be a happy medium. The Lebron/Carmelo fiascos this summer were the nails in the coffin of the current system.
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I don't disagree with you about the current (and my preferred) balance of power, and your logic about the NBA being different than standard competitors (Wendy's or Burger King would almost certainly be better off if McDonalds went under... the same can't be said for, say, the Blazers and Jazz and the Bulls)... BUT...

Even though the owners have, throughout recent history, made the assertion across major American sports, courts have consistently ruled that pro sports leagues are NOT single entities.

Except MLS. MLS has all its players sign deals with the league. There is no free agency. There is no real authority for player movement, etc., at the team level. It's a system that is centrally controlled in order to keep salaries down.

American Needle is the most recent US Supreme Court ruling that could impact the NBA situation, and although it might be limited in some respects, it indicates that even a conservative court was part of a 9-0 decision against a single entity application for even part (intellectual property) of the NFL's business.

You can read about the decision (and there's a link discussing MLS's single entity in there, too, which is pretty informative) here:

http://www.nutmegradio.com/single-entity-time-american-needle-and-what-it-means-for-mls/

Ed O.
 
PapaG said:
Yeah, that's been my point the entire time about union members playing overseas before they even disbanded their union.
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Without the single entity status, though, it almost certainly doesn't matter.

Ed O.
 
uh oh

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1058/jr-smith

J.R. Smith injured his knee during his debut in the Chinese Basketball Association, and needed to be carried to an ambulance by his teammates.
The fact that he couldn't walk under his own power is obviously a dreadful sign, but he refused a wheelchair and reportedly told the ambulance to drive him to his hotel, where a nurse stayed with him. One observer said it "looked like a non-contact injury," which is another bad sign. We'll update his status once more is known. Nov 20 - 11:21 AM
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[video=youtube;-5ZOQ7bUOqM]
 
yuyuza1 said:
uh oh
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It sucks for Smith, and I hope he's OK, but players have such short and fragile careers that them risking it over a little bit of money overseas when there's so much more from an "unfair" deal with the NBA seems silly to me.

Ed O.
 
Really mixed emotions about this. Part of me is cracking up, but the other, nicer part of me feels bad for him because they really do have such fragile careers. Then again, it was his own fault for not getting a free college degree when he had the chance. Instead he chose to go pro out of high school. Hopefully if it is serious, he has someone he can trust that has done well with his money
 
Ed O said:
It sucks for Smith, and I hope he's OK, but players have such short and fragile careers that them risking it over a little bit of money overseas when there's so much more from an "unfair" deal with the NBA seems silly to me.

Ed O.
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Ain't that the truth. And while it's not a "little" bit of money, a bad injury over there could cost him a year or two PLUS what they might miss here.

Imagine if you were Kevin Durant and you had a severe injury (ala Jay Williams) AND because of the declassification doohicky, your once guaranteed money is gone.

oops.
 
julius said:
Imagine if you were Kevin Durant and you had a severe injury (ala Jay Williams) AND because of the declassification doohicky, your once guaranteed money is gone.
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I would think that, even if contracts aren't canceled due to labor strife, a serious injury from activities unrelated to NBA basketball would give the team cause to get out from under it (like Jay Williams and the Bulls).

Edit: the terms of the agreement would be prohibited activity, and I'd guess that playing professionally with another team would arguable be prohibited...

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
I would think that, even if contracts aren't canceled due to labor strife, a serious injury from activities unrelated to NBA basketball would give the team cause to get out from under it (like Jay Williams and the Bulls).

Edit: the terms of the agreement would be prohibited activity, and I'd guess that playing professionally with another team would arguable be prohibited...

Ed O.
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I wonder, though, wouldn't the insurance cover it (for the player)?
 
Didn't AK47 break his nose and get a concussion the other day in Russia?
 
Patty Mills just signed with the same team that KMart plays for in China, leaving Australia right away. Shavlick Randolph is headed over there as well!
 
Patty Mills ends Melbourne contract, heads to China

Posted by Inside Hoops

Portland Trail Blazers point guard Patty Mills has cut short his stay with the Melbourne Tigers and will play for a Chinese league club during the NBA lockout.

The National Basketball League said in a statement late Sunday that Mills had signed a contract to play with Chinese club Xinjiang Guanghui Flying Tigers. The NBL said it allowed Mills to leave because it did not want to hold him back from other international opportunities.

– Reported by the Associated Press



Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=8605&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#ixzz1eIBl1crA
 
Stein


Source close to talks tells ESPN that Kevin Love has notified Besiktas he is NOT taking Turkish team's offer to join up with Deron Williams
 
Besides Love, Luol Deng (British passport holder) also atop Besiktas wish list. Other names linked to Istanbul club: Nene, Gortat, Boozer
 
Stein


Even before extent of J.R. Smith's injury known, you wonder: What impact will it have on willingness of locked-out NBA stars to play abroad?
 
Stein


Lockout leaves no choice but to scour globe for places to play, but bad injury in Smith's China debut brings the nightmare scenario to life
 
I wonder if NBA players realize how them leaving just makes it easier to forget them for the fans.
 
This is exactly why I didn't want LA or Wes or Nic to play elsewhere. Fuck the whole... "You can get injured anywhere" argument.
 
Ed O said:
It sucks for Smith, and I hope he's OK, but players have such short and fragile careers that them risking it over a little bit of money overseas when there's so much more from an "unfair" deal with the NBA seems silly to me.

Ed O.
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JR Smith has made over $23 million in the NBA, he's rarely been a starter, and he is only 26 years old. I just wonder why in the hell a guy who has made that much money would go to China to play ball, especially considering his contract can now be voided if he can't play. Good luck collecting on that one, JR.

The NBA players are like the Keystone Kops in this lockout. Dumbest pro athletes, ever.
 
The union's idea of competitive balance is laughable. They think teams who overspend should be 'taxed' with giving up their first round pick.

So late first round picks will help to keep the competitive balance? If anything that'll make it worse. Late first rounders rarely produce players who aren't anything more than role players.

Along with a strict/hard/flex (what-have-you) cap, I think contraction of a few teams would greatly improve the talent pool. Sacramento is a prime candidate given the financial woes of the Maloof brothers and arena issues. New Orleans should be an automatic contraction. A darkhorse candidate should be the Hawks. That arena is always empty, barely half full, even for playoff games.

A contraction draft would be interesting.
 
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I imagine JR Smith got himself covered by insurance before he went over. Akin to high-profile college players getting themselves insured before big bowl games or their final year.
 
HCP said:
Patty Mills just signed with the same team that KMart plays for in China, leaving Australia right away. Shavlick Randolph is headed over there as well!
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So, are you going to work in China during the lockout, HCP?

barfo
 
So much for the NBA 'monopoly' on players' opportunities to make a living playing basketball. Good luck with that anti-trust lawsuit.
 
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