The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread! (2 Viewers)

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KBergCBS.......

Paul Pierce was in room with Fisher. Couldn't he just flop on the floor, writhing in pain, and prompt owners to improve offer out of pity?
 
Agents issue warning letter to clients.........

Concerned that leaders of the NBA players union continue to negotiate with owners about a new collective bargaining agreement that contains massive concessions by only the players, six of the most powerful player agencies jointly composed a warning letter over the weekend and sent it Monday to their clients, sources say.

The letter advises the players not to ratify any deal that includes a reduction in basketball-related income beyond the 57 percent or any other systematic changes from the last collective bargaining agreement, which expired July 1.

The owners have held firm to chopping the players' share of BRI from 57 to 46 percent since negotiations began, union director Billy Hunter acknowledged after lengthy talks over the weekend were largely fruitless.

Sources say the letter, a copy of which was obtained from a player who received it, was jointly composed by Arn Tellem of Wasserman Media Group; Bill Duffy of BDA Sports; Dan Fegan of Lagardere Unlimited; Jeff Schwartz of Excel Sports Management; Leon Rose and Henry Thomas of Creative Artists Agency; and Mark Bartelstein of Priority Sports and Entertainment.

The same group of agents has strongly suggested that the union pursue decertification in light of the owners' refusal to budge from demands for "givebacks" as well as severe restrictions on future earnings, which the agents consider unfounded with the league setting a record for overall revenue last season and "skyrocketing television ratings," "record attendance" and "ever increasing television rights deals" over the last six seasons.

Union president and Lakers guard Derek Fisher sent a letter in mid-September to a limited group of players after reports of the agents' push for decertification surfaced. He criticized the agents for not airing their concerns with him and questioned "their motives."

The letter sent Monday by the agents does not mention decertification, nor does it suggest that their clients break from the union. It simply -- but pointedly -- advises them to request ample time to review any labor deal the union might present for ratification and to demand that the entire union membership be given the chance to vote on it.

When the union and owners struck a deal to end the lockout that delayed the start of the league's 1998-99 season, players were given barely more than 24 hours to review the owners' proposal and find their way to New York, where they had to be present to have their vote count in a show-of-hands format rather than by secret ballot, sources say. A total of 184 votes were recorded -- the deal was ratified 179-5 -- but that represented less than half the players eligible to vote.

The league circumvented the union and presented their proposal directly to the players for ratification, but did so with the threat that short of immediate approval, the entire season would be cancelled and the following season replacement players would be used instead.

The letter estimates that the owners' proposed combination of a reduced cut of basketball-related revenue, a 10-percent "claw back" on existing contracts and the 8 percent of each contract held in escrow and forfeited unless the players are paid less than their BRI cut means "each player will likely return 15 percent to 20 percent of his salary to owners at the end of each season."

It outlines that a reduction of the BRI from 57 to merely 52 percent would amount to a refund by each player of $500,000 to the owners.

The agents also suggest to their clients in the letter that they demand to see the complete financial records of the owners over the past six seasons -- the period covered by the last labor pact, which was essentially an extension of the one negotiated in 1999 -- including their "related entities (such as regional sports networks and arenas)."

How the letter impacts negotiations or the timeline on a deal being struck remains to be seen. But one of the closing statements, written in bold italics, is: "Remember, it is not about when or how fast a deal is reached, it is about taking the time to secure the best deal."

Ric Bucher is a senior NBA writer for ESPN The Magazine.
 
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Four powerful points to ponder. How can owners really be losing money, in 1999 owners sneaked the vote by preventing the majority of players from voting, 52% really means a 15-20% cut, and owners won't show their financial records. In order:

HCP said:
with the league setting a record for overall revenue last season and "skyrocketing television ratings," "record attendance" and "ever increasing television rights deals" over the last six seasons.

When the union and owners struck a deal to end the lockout that delayed the start of the league's 1998-99 season, players were given barely more than 24 hours to review the owners' proposal and find their way to New York, where they had to be present to have their vote count in a show-of-hands format rather than by secret ballot, sources say. A total of 184 votes were recorded -- the deal was ratified 179-5 -- but that represented less than half the players eligible to vote.

The league circumvented the union and presented their proposal directly to the players for ratification, but did so with the threat that short of immediate approval, the entire season would be cancelled and the following season replacement players would be used instead.

The letter estimates that the owners' proposed combination of a reduced cut of basketball-related revenue, a 10-percent "claw back" on existing contracts and the 8 percent of each contract held in escrow and forfeited unless the players are paid less than their BRI cut means "each player will likely return 15 percent to 20 percent of his salary to owners at the end of each season."

The agents also suggest to their clients in the letter that they demand to see the complete financial records of the owners over the past six seasons -- the period covered by the last labor pact, which was essentially an extension of the one negotiated in 1999 -- including their "related entities (such as regional sports networks and arenas)."
Click to expand...
 
Derek Fisher: "A lot of signs point to tomorrow being a very important day."
 
Stern and Silver say neither party has made its last, best offer but expect it tomorrow when full committees meet.
 
HCP said:
Stern and Silver say neither party has made its last, best offer but expect it tomorrow when full committees meet.
Click to expand...

Elvis is in the house singin "It's now or never"......
 
Yeah this is not looking too good. The players are not going to cave in this early. They are too pissed off right now. The players know the owners are lying due to the fact that they still have not shown the complete financial records.

IMO the only way this will turn out good tomorrow is if the owners lower their demands enough that the players feel they like they have won something. It's all up to the owners, they have to really cut their demands. (The BRI)

Hopefully this all part of Stern's strategy, otherwise the next round will be in November IMO. which I am afraid Stern is OK with.
 
So what are we, three weeks away from the start of the season?


*tick tock*
 
Amazingly, the 1st pre season game should be next Tuesday! Damn, I miss hoops!
 
Still got a month until the season would start anyway.

Between deer hunting and baseball, my October dance card is full.
 
Hunting is for Neanderthals

I think less of you and look down you
 
AP got a hold of Derek Fisher's letter to players......................



NEW YORK — Text of a letter players' association president Derek Fisher sent to NBA players Monday that was obtained by The Associated Press:

Guys,

I write to you from New York where we have had the most recent negotiating sessions, the latest one today. I wanted to keep everyone in the loop on the events of the past few days and since my last update.

Before I update you though, I must comment on a letter that has been brought to my attention and drafted by a handful of agents representing you. The letter which I personally read this morning is to their players and had planned to release this afternoon/evening. Your agents represent you, there's a loyalty there and I can appreciate that. I'll never question it, the work they do for you, or the decisions you and they make together. The letter however includes misinformation and unsupported theories.

As you would imagine, the agents are not aware of my seeing this ahead of its release. As a player myself, I know that each player should read everything we can. My emails, media reports, letters from their representation, to form an opinion on the situation. Educate yourself, ask questions, do it all. But not all of what you read is fact, you know this, I know this.

One issue I need to again be very clear on...nothing can be accepted without a vote by the players. If and when there is a proposal that we feel is in the best interests of us as players, each of you WILL have the opportunity to vote in person. It's in the union bylaws, it's not up for negotiation. You will have the opportunity to see the full proposal before you agree, you will be able to challenge it, question it, anything you feel appropriate in order to know that this is the best deal for you and your fellow players.

As far as the negotiations, quite a few guys came out for the meeting on Friday. We met as a group first where we updated the players on the league and owner's position which I have briefed you on previously. Everyone in the room was in agreement, we have been more than fair in our proposals.

We then continued into the meeting with David Stern, Adam Silver and the Labor Negotiations Committee including: Jeanie Buss, Peter Holt, Clay Bennett, Jim Dolan, Larry Miller, Robert Sarver, Bob Vanderweide, Glen Taylor and Mickey Arison.

It was there that we discussed details of proposals and continued to reiterate our position on several key economic and system issues. At the conclusion of the day's meetings, yet again, it was agreed by the players present, we will continue to negotiate in good faith but what we have offered thus far is fair and reasonable.

Talks continued Saturday and again today in smaller groups.

Tomorrow, as you may have read, will be another larger negotiating session. Everyone in the regional meetings, Friday's player meeting, and throughout this process has been in support of the position the NBPA has taken. We go into tomorrow's meeting strong, remaining steadfast on the issues we will not be able to move away from. Anyone saying different is not privy to the meetings and is uninformed.

Keep the questions, comments and suggestions coming. Stand united.

Derek
 
According to Metta World Peace, the lockout is over. Sadly if it were literally anyone else associated with the NBA saying that I would be excited. Him......not so much
 
Mediocre Man said:
According to Metta World Peace, the lockout is over. Sadly if it were literally anyone else associated with the NBA saying that I would be excited. Him......not so much
Click to expand...

Why are you against World Peace?

barfo
 
Mediocre Man said:
According to Metta World Peace, the lockout is over. Sadly if it were literally anyone else associated with the NBA saying that I would be excited. Him......not so much
Click to expand...

I agree. Where did you read it?
 
I just hope his account didn't get hacked!

I'm starting to get major NBA withdrawals.
 
Woj.......

Amar'e Stoudemire just left the labor meeting.
 
Stoudemire says he is "not sure" if the season will start on time.
 
KBergCBS: Amar'e Stoudemire leaves, but meetings still ongoing: "So far, we're making progress, which is great."
 
Amar'e: "Both sides are confident about getting something done. We're just trying to make sure we work it out."
 
Still could have a full season.......

Both sides in the NBA labor negotiations agree that if the owners and players do not make significant progress in CBA talks soon, then logistics will dictate that the scheduled Nov. 1 start of the regular season will become impossible.

The assumption is that, like in the 1998-99 lockout, a delayed start to the season would lead to games being canceled. Is it possible, however, that a full season could simply start later and run deeper into the summer?

On Monday, commissioner David Stern did not rule this out.

"As we said to the players, everything is negotiable," Stern said after the sides met in small groups Monday in New York for about five hours. Yet, Stern added, "we haven't ever discussed this; it would be really great if we could start the season on time."

A shortened season has various drawbacks. Depending on how long it lasts, the loss of games can cut into ticket and corporate sponsorship revenues that the owners and players share. It can also affect TV revenues, which vary on both a national and local level, but are important to both the players and owners. It also is a stain on the league's brand. And if you ask the 1999 champion Spurs, it is also cause for rivals to question the meaning of short-season accomplishments. Shaquille O'Neal famously said the Spurs' title should be marked by an asterisk.

While there is merit in finding a way to play a full season, Stern was clear, however, that starting one after Nov. 1 would pose challenges.

"Given the building issues with our buildings now pressuring us to allow them to book dates [that are currently being held for NBA games under threat of cancellation], and given the schedule of our TV partners, and given the fact how much household viewing declines after our draft, I'm not sure, how easy that would be," the commissioner said Monday.

Owners and players are holding a a full bargaining session Tuesday, knowing if they fail to produce results, there may not be enough time left to avoid canceling regular-season games.

Union president Derek Fisher said Monday that a lot of signs pointed to Tuesday as "being a very huge day." His teammate Kobe Bryant was expected to take part, with Boston Celtics stars Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett among other players joining the union's executive committee.

Henry Abbott is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com who founded TrueHoop. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
 
The NBA finals in August would be sweet! Then we could start back up in October again. I'm down.
 
Word is the CBA meeting is wrapping up
 
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