The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread!

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Well, the pro-players' side has their cute little quips in this thread, but the reality is that the majority of fans don't side with them. Kobe ryant playing overseas for $2 million/game doesn't really show solidarity, does it? Seems more like a big middle finger to the NBA, the Lakers, and the players by Kobe, as he makes a money grab.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Of course some players are ready to fold! Some owners were perfectly happy with the old CBA. This is news?

Tom Ziller killing it these days:
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Tom Ziller is an idiot. The Kings lost a crapload of money last year. How much do the Maloofs have to lose in their Sacto Barn per year to appease Tom Ziller? They were losing money when they were competitive, for chrssakes.
 
PapaG said:
the reality is that the majority of fans don't side with them.
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Irrelevant. The two sides aren't competing for popularity with the fans. The fans have nothing to do with the outcome. You can circle around a dogfight and whoop it up, but your sentiment won't affect the fighters.

PapaG said:
Tom Ziller is an idiot. The Kings lost a crapload of money last year. How much do the Maloofs have to lose in their Sacto Barn per year to appease Tom Ziller? They were losing money when they were competitive, for chrssakes.
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Ziller is the Kings reporter for the SB site. He knows the Kings.
 
Stern had a gut feeling that no deal by Tuesday this week means no Christmas games. Can we expect more games to be cancelled tomorrow?
 
“If there’s a breakthrough, it’s going to come on Tuesday,” Stern told NBA TV. “And if not, I think that the season is really going to potentially escape from us because we aren’t making any progress.”

Cohen, who tried to resolve the NFL’s labor dispute, met with the sides individually at their offices in New York on Monday. He will then oversee talks between their full bargaining committees Tuesday at a hotel.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Amy6Pwqq7QgFpQNmSUQBW7a8vLYF?slug=ap-nbalabor
 
RoyToy said:
Did Pizza Guy or Mailman tell you that?

Or was it Hat Guy?
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No one told me that. Although in another post of mine somewhere I had said someone that might know such things said deal would be done Nov 1st, season would start a few weeks after
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
“If there’s a breakthrough, it’s going to come on Tuesday,” Stern told NBA TV. “And if not, I think that the season is really going to potentially escape from us because we aren’t making any progress.”
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Davey is so talented at tightening the screws on the players. They will yield to his pressure Tuesday, or else he'll issue his daily proclamation that the next day is the crucial day.
 
jlprk said:
Irrelevant. The two sides aren't competing for popularity with the fans. The fans have nothing to do with the outcome. You can circle around a dogfight and whoop it up, but your sentiment won't affect the fighters.
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The owners want the public to support the players. It's critical for the owners that there is minimal long-term public backlash aimed towards the players. The owners know the lockout will end eventually. At that point the owners make money by fans tuning in on TV or physically coming to arenas to watch the players. Owners don't make money from fans watching owners!
 
Mediocre Man said:
No one told me that. Although in another post of mine somewhere I had said someone that might know such things said deal would be done Nov 1st, season would start a few weeks after
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A few weeks? In 1999, the deal was reached on 1/6, and the season didn't begin until 2/5.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Ya. Nov 1st to Dec 1st seems likely
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Why will a deal be done 11/1 and not now? Seems a bit odd if the end date is already known. I'm guessing this lasts through the holidays, and Stern will cancel games through XMas tomorrow if no deal is reached today.
 
PapaG said:
Why will a deal be done 11/1 and not now? Seems a bit odd if the end date is already known. I'm guessing this lasts through the holidays, and Stern will cancel games through XMas tomorrow if no deal is reached today.
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I dunno?

My guess is that having a deal done Nov 1st will save the face of someone? Players might get money lost from games? Owners might get other goodies? That's just the date someone has been hearing as likely to be done on
 
KBergCBS..........


Meetings began around 10 a.m. ET, so by unofficial count, going on four hours. As you know, this means ... absolutely nothing.
 
ChrisMannixSI......


Much as I'd like to be optimistic about NBA/NBPA mediation entering hour four, we have been down this road before. Need a major concession.
 
PapaG said:
Well, the pro-players' side has their cute little quips in this thread, but the reality is that the majority of fans don't side with them. Kobe ryant playing overseas for $2 million/game doesn't really show solidarity, does it? Seems more like a big middle finger to the NBA, the Lakers, and the players by Kobe, as he makes a money grab.
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That's incorrect, PapaG. Players signing (or at least threatening to sign) with overseas teams is an attempt to put pressure on the owners. It's a demonstration that the star players have options, that the NBA isn't the proverbial "only game in town" for the players.
 
angrypuppy said:
That's incorrect, PapaG. Players signing (or at least threatening to sign) with overseas teams is an attempt to put pressure on the owners. It's a demonstration that the star players have options, that the NBA isn't the proverbial "only game in town" for the players.
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Their options consist of playing in leagues where the players have less of a say and less of a share with the owners than they do in the NBA. It's self-defeating, IMO. All it proved is that the players are willing to play for less money, with a less-favorable CBA, than what the owners are offering right now in the NBA. If I"m the owners, I'd encourage even more players to go play in second-rate leagues where the players have no voice or bargaining power.
 
PapaG said:
Their options consist of playing in leagues where the players have less of a say and less of a share with the owners than they do in the NBA. It's self-defeating, IMO. All it proved is that the players are willing to play for less money, with a less-favorable CBA, than what the owners are offering right now in the NBA. If I"m the owners, I'd encourage even more players to go play in second-rate leagues where the players have no voice or bargaining power.
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While it is true that neither Europe nor China can pay NBA-like salaries it does put pressure on the owners. Though Kobe and others will get paid less, they will still have both income and options. That was why the $2 million per game number was leaked; it was to establish Kobe's worth outside of the NBA. Now there is no way he'll get anything close to that deal on a per game basis over an extended period of time, but it does demonstrate that Kobe (and others) can earn a decent living outside of the States. If NBA stars did sign to play out this season in Europe it would be a blow to the owners. For one, if this lockout drags on they'll damage brand equity. Second, this is still a star's league. If stars decided to hedge their bets at some point by playing overseas then the owners could find themselves in a position where they reopen to the derision of fans, and present a second-rate product.

For what it is worth, the players have done a poor job pressuring the owners. Playing overseas has been their only real weapon to date.
 
angrypuppy said:
While it is true that neither Europe nor China can pay NBA-like salaries it does put pressure on the owners. Though Kobe and others will get paid less, they will still have both income and options. That was why the $2 million per game number was leaked; it was to establish Kobe's worth outside of the NBA. Now there is no way he'll get anything close to that deal on a per game basis over an extended period of time, but it does demonstrate that Kobe (and others) can earn a decent living outside of the States. If NBA stars did sign to play out this season in Europe it would be a blow to the owners. For one, if this lockout drags on they'll damage brand equity. Second, this is still a star's league. If stars decided to hedge their bets at some point by playing overseas then the owners could find themselves in a position where they reopen to the derision of fans, and present a second-rate product.

For what it is worth, the players have done a poor job pressuring the owners. Playing overseas has been their only real weapon to date.
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I have always disagreed with this. Players playing overseas does nothing but fractures the union as a whole. The only good thing about a union is that all players should be looked at as equal. Luke Babbitt should have the same say as K*be. So while it will be great for some of the NBA players to join leagues overseas, not all can, or will make it because of style of play. In the long run those players will be extremely motivated to get something done
 
I'm willing to bet that Billy Hunter comes out and says the owners aren't negotiating in good faith.

Revolving_Door.gif
 
sheridanhoops Chris Sheridan
Lobby sighting at NBA lockout talks: Rev. Jesse Jackson.



Kill me now.
 
I don't see how your logic demonstrates that Kobe (or others) are fracturing the solidarity of the union. In fact, it does the opposite. It is a further attempt to provide proof that the players can generate income without the owners during the lockout, and that there is a danger that some players may forsake the NBA for the rest of the season, which damages the owners due to reduced star generated revenues.

Fracturing the solidarity of the union would be an attempt to either subvert the union by announcing that players are ready to give up, or engaging in behavior that promotes one tier of player over another tier during the negotiation. Now if you were considering the limited shelf-life, limited income, and likely limited bank accounts of the players earning $2.5 million or less, you'd realize that it is in their interest to end the fight as soon as possible. Each lost paycheck is significant relative to the higher paid players, and that's where the players can be (and will be) factionalized by the owners. The lowest paid players comprise 40% or so of the union vote, and their financial interests do not likely coincide with the stars.

The only leverage the players have is to either play overseas, sit on their duffs and watch the owners rupture cash, or threaten to establish a rival league (which isn't even feasible in the intermediate term).


Mediocre Man said:
I have always disagreed with this. Players playing overseas does nothing but fractures the union as a whole. The only good thing about a union is that all players should be looked at as equal. Luke Babbitt should have the same say as K*be. So while it will be great for some of the NBA players to join leagues overseas, not all can, or will make it because of style of play. In the long run those players will be extremely motivated to get something done
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Last time Jesse Jackson was mentioned in the same breath as the NBA he came with this:

His feelings of betrayal personify a slave master mentality. He sees LeBron as a runaway slave. This is an owner employee relationship -- between business partners -- and LeBron honored his contract.
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Woj......


Wish I could do better than this, but....meeting with federal mediator, NBA and NBPA has now passed six hours in New York.
 
Word is, mediation just now getting under way. Cohen still doesn't understand how Rashard Lewis makes $21 million, but they're moving on ...
 
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