The Official "Start Zach Collins" Thread

[Scalma]

I wasn't trying to imply that is what happened to Biebs and Webster as much as that if you throw Collins in too quickly then he might end up suffering the same psych issues that have troubled Biebs and Webster.

I wouldn't worry about that. He's closer to Dame in makeup than Meyers. Swanigan as well. I think both of those guys are ready to fail (meaning mentally tough)

 

[BBert]

Biggie is all over the boards though.

Another reason we need him off the bench.

 

[BBert]

I mainly think Caleb would give us scoring off the bench. We don't need his scoring in the starting lineup.

This too

 

[Scalma]

I agree with the thinking of Swanigan with the second unit. His spacing and scoring would be more valuable there.

Ideally my rotation would be

Dame
CJ
Harkless
Collins
Nurkic

CJ
Turner
Aminu
Swanigan
Davis

And against certain second units we can move Swanigan to a small ball 5 and bring in Connaughton or Napier.

 

[BBert]

The Blazers don't seem to be considering playing twin towers and they seem to consider Collins a C and not a PF.

Same Blazers that considered Meyers a PF?

If so, they are wrong about this too.

 

[Natebishop3]

I assume Casey has pretty good contacts with the team and has a decent handle on the thinking of the coach and management.

I mean, he's really tight with the Blazers. He writes for their official WWW site.

http://www.nba.com/blazers/forward-center/

And that's not how he framed his response. He wasn't saying that the team doesn't think Collins is a good fit next to Nurk.

 

[BBert]

I'm going by what Casey Holdahl tweeted the other day.

That tweet told me Casey Holdahl doesn't know dick

 

[dviss1]

Same Blazers that considered Meyers a PF?

If so, they are wrong about this too.

I think that was Butters himself.

 

[BrianFromWA]

That tweet told me Casey Holdahl doesn't know dick

Or, he's on the same "I don't want to be Kim Hughes or Jason Quick-ed" wagon HCP is on...

 

[BrianFromWA]

and lest we forget, 19y/o Nic Batum was tossed into the Starters' fire on Game 4 of his rookie season. In place of a "more veteran" Outlaw, who is probably the Vonleh in this scenario.

 

[Trackjack]

I think collins can do has much as Vonleh as for the team. Collins has confidence in his shot while Vonleh doesn't. I believe Collins and nurk can play together just find.

 

[dviss1]

They need to trade Vonleh to get SOMETHING in return for Nico...

 

[Scalma]

They need to trade Vonleh to get SOMETHING in return for Nico...

Vonleh is our "best" trade chip. Vonleh for Hezonja has been brought up and it's pretty fair.

 

[THE HCP]

I've been surprisingly impressed with his game, BUT it's been in garbage time a lot against other summer leaguers. Tough to use those preseason numbers on rookies. Cause we don't know what they can do against real players. I have no beef with him starting a couple games to see what he can do.

 

[Sinobas]

I know there are people who want Biggie. I'm sure Stotts is leaning towards Aminu.

I think the Blazers should start Collins though. He's quite possibly the best defensive player we have on the team. He has range out to the three point line. He moves without the ball. He has a high BBIQ.

For some reason it's hard to find up to date averages for his preseason, but by my own math, he's shooting 57% from the field, 50% from three point range, he's averaging 8 ppg in 17 minutes per game. 4.25 rebounds per game. And I think, more importantly, his fouls have dropped. He had 5 in his first game, and then 4, and then 3, and then 0 last night.

I think he's the best fit next to Nurk. He can play in the paint, but he can also drift outside. He's quick, he's agile, and he moves without the ball. Biggie strikes me as being very slow. I'm not sure if he's quick enough to play the four in the NBA.

Just for comparison, Biggie's averages over the last four games:

8.75 ppg, 7.5 rebounds, 48% from the field, 40% from three, in 17.75 minutes per game. Conversely, his fouls have gone up. 1 foul in the first game, 3 fouls in the second game, 1 foul in the third game, and 4 fouls in the 4th game.

I don't see Caleb as being any more NBA ready than Collins, but I think Collins has a much higher ceiling and I think he'd have better success as a power forward in the current landscape in the NBA.

Yeah, I think he's our best 4/5 outside of Nurkic right now. He can defend the perimeter as well as outside, and I think he's the best shooter, even though we haven't seen a large volume of shots from him so far...he's at least no slouch in that area. I'd just work the rotation so that he's playing C when Nurkic is on the bench.

I think Aminu wins a spot in the rotation because of his defense. The 4th spot will be a fight between Swanigan, Vonleh and Davis. Leonard should be put in to take punches from Cousins so he gets ejected.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Noah Vonleh has started over half (97) the Blazers regular season games at power forward the last two seasons. In those 97 starts, Vonleh averaged 4.9 ppg. How much worse can Collins' numbers be?

I hate to give up on Vonleh, he's still only 22, but he's had three seasons in the NBA, two with the Blazers and hasn't really improved much. Any improvement to date has been marginal, at best.

I think Collins is already as good, possibly better than Vonleh. If you watched the NCAA tournament, you know that Collins doesn't wilt under pressure. He played so well in the tourney that he made the All Tournament team, as a freshman, coming off the bench.

On the flip side, even though Terry Stotts is fine with starting Noah Vonleh during the regular season , he doesn't trust him enough to start him in the playoffs.

If we're going to give development minutes to our young guys this season, I'd rather see those minutes go to Collins. I think he fits in better long term, and has a lot more upside than Vonleh.

BNM

 

[blue9]

Noah Vonleh has started over half (97) the Blazers regular season games at power forward the last two seasons. In those 97 starts, Vonleh averaged 4.9 ppg. How much worse can Collins' numbers be?

None worse.

 

[Sinobas]

I don't think he will start because the Blazers likely don't want to throw him directly into the fire and end up with another Leonard or Webster. Collins has shown some signs of getting down on himself and I would be concerned about that.

Now, if that weren't the case, or if we can ease him in for half a season, then I totally agree. His defense next to Nurk is really good. He can cover multiple positions temporarily and seems to be able to hit the open shot.

Either way, I don't think it will be long. He just looks like he belongs out there at the four.

Don't flame me, but would you consider bringing in Walton to coach him on defense? I see a few similarities.

He might have an easier time playing amongst the talent of the starting lineup, where he won't feel like he's expected to score. He won't be expected to bang with the opposing team's center since Nurk would be out there.

 

[Sinobas]

They need to trade Vonleh to get SOMETHING in return for Nico...

That Batum trade is not looking so hot now. I was tired of Batum, and glad we got out of his contract, but I'd actually rather still have him than Evan Turner.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He might have an easier time playing amongst the talent of the starting lineup, where he won't feel like he's expected to score. He won't be expected to bang with the opposing team's center since Nurk would be out there.

Like Vonleh, he would be the 5th option on offense with the starting unit.

Unlike Vonleh, he looks like he might actually knock down a jump shot if left completely unguarded.

BNM

 

[Sinobas]

Like Vonleh, he would be the 5th option on offense with the starting unit.

Unlike Vonleh, he looks like he might actually knock down a jump shot if left completely unguarded.

BNM

Yeah, Vonleh's jump shot looks nice, but it didn't go in very often. Vonleh is very strong, and relatively athletic for his size, he just didn't produce much.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yeah, Vonleh's jump shot looks nice, but it didn't go in very often. Vonleh is very strong, and relatively athletic for his size, he just didn't produce much.

Sounds like Meyers...

 

[Reep]

He might have an easier time playing amongst the talent of the starting lineup, where he won't feel like he's expected to score. He won't be expected to bang with the opposing team's center since Nurk would be out there.

In a void, yes, but against real teams I'm not sure yet. The first two games he could do it (but Stotts won't), but after that are you really ready to feed him to Greek/Monroe and Unibrow?

 

[BonesJones]

Yeah, Vonleh's jump shot looks nice, but it didn't go in very often. Vonleh is very strong, and relatively athletic for his size, he just didn't produce much.

I think Vonlehs shots pretty ugly. Send to force his elbow directly under the ball by pushing the ball out to the side, and seems to have his shooting hand on the inside part of the ball. Very weird, IMO.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He might have an easier time playing amongst the talent of the starting lineup, where he won't feel like he's expected to score. He won't be expected to bang with the opposing team's center since Nurk would be out there.

I like the combination of Collins starting with Swanigan coming off the bench. I think Collins benefits more by playing with the starters, and as mentioned, he would not be relied upon for scoring when playing with the starting five.

After the first preseason game, I mentioned that if he got the minutes, I think Swanigan could replace most of Crabbe's scoring off the bench.

He won't space the floor like Crabbe did, but that's why we have Anthony Morrow. Even if he doesn't play as many minutes as Crabbe did (he won't), as one of the top 3-point shooters in league history, whenever Morrow is on the floor, he will spread the defense and create space for his teammates. No defense is going to leave Morrow unguarded and dare him to shoot the way they do Turner, Aminu and Harkless.

And Swanigan will benefit from the spacing Morrow creates. I mentioned during the summer league that Swanigan reminds me of the power forward version of Cedric Ceballos. He will manufacture points off of offensive rebounds, broken plays and turnovers. Like Ceballos, Swanigan will have occasional games of 16 - 20 points without having a single set play run for him.

With so few players on our bench capable of creating for themselves, we need the kind of "garbage" points Swanigan will produce much more with the second unit than we do the starters where Dame, C.J. and Nurk can create for themselves and others.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yeah, Vonleh's jump shot looks nice, but it didn't go in very often. Vonleh is very strong, and relatively athletic for his size, he just didn't produce much.

Regardless of his shooting form, he lacks the confidence to even take the shots, much less knock them down, when left wide open. Opposing teams know this and basically ignore Volneh when he's more than five feet from the basket.

Not only does Vonleh not create space, he is such a non-threat to score, it let's opposing defenses clog the lane and double team whoever has the ball. He really is a poor fit offensively in Stotts' system.

I think Collins, at least, has the shot and hopefully the confidence in his shot to keep opposing defenses honest. Sure, as a rookie, he'll hesitate to take the shots at times, but I think he'll quickly learn to take advantage of those open looks.

BNM

 

[blue9]

That Batum trade is not looking so hot now. I was tired of Batum, and glad we got out of his contract, but I'd actually rather still have him than Evan Turner.

It never looked hot. Not once.

 

[kjironman1]

When someone has an opinion as opposite of mine as that, I try to understand it.

I don't understand it. What concerns would someone have with Collins' fit next to Nurkic?

This is pretty much the first thing that popped into my mind when i read that tweet.

 

[Hobbesarable]

For some reason it's hard to find up to date averages for his preseason

Here's a link to his preseason stats.

 

[rotary111]

I would love to see Collins start, however Stotts likes experience unless your name is Lillard. Vonleh played much better when we had a true center to work with. His shot is better than people are giving him credit for and his defense and rebounding are what put him in the starting line up in the first place. Vonleh has had really good preseason numbers too, So let's wait until the season starts before we get to ahead of ourselves on these rooks. I've wanted Zach since watching him all last season at Gonzaga. This kid is an absolute stud. He would have went way higher in the draft if he had stayed another year in college. I do believe coach Few was quoted saying that he wanted to "hide him last season", but he was "just to good to not play." He really wanted him back for another year. A big line up of Vonleh, Swannigan , Collins and Nurkic is ridiculous! Throw in Davis where you want and we have one of the best big lineup's in the league. The future is so bright I have to wear rip city shades!