Notice THE OFFICIAL WNBA CBA Lockout/Strike Thread……… (5 Viewers)

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Phatguysrule said:
That doesn't really matter. Steph Curry is so popular partially because he's the same size as a normal guy. He just put in a ton of work.

It doesn't have to compete with the NBA.

None of these points dispute anything I've said.

The league started growing as soon as the marketing changed. It didn't start growing because of Caitlin Clark. It started growing before Caitlin Clark was on the scene.

It started growing because of the marketing spend. The WNBA has always had the most talented women basketball players in the world. Talent was never the problem.

The league was being run poorly by the NBA and WNBA. That's it. That has been the only problem.

Frankly, I find this argument that the league is only doing well because of Caitlin Clark to be chauvinistic.

Caitlin Clark is an added draw. Absolutely. She's a superstar. The league's new marketing has helped her become that (and no, that isn't a diss on Caitlin Clark).
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I do wonder if it's aldo just a time now where the US is more supportive and interested to watch competitive women sports as opposed to a decade or more ago.

Seeing women in UFC that could beat the shit out of 99% of men is just something we didn't have when I was growing up.

Danica Patrick is another, there's just been many athletic women in a range of sports that was unheard of in the 90s.
 
Here's a new sport I found last year that's insane... Not sure if I like women more than men or if I even like the sport at all. It's both hard to stop watching and hard to watch.

 
SharpesTriumph said:
I do wonder if it's aldo just a time now where the US is more supportive and interested to watch competitive women sports as opposed to a decade or more ago.

Seeing women in UFC that could beat the shit out of 99% of men is just something we didn't have when I was growing up.

Danica Patrick is another, there's just been many athletic women in a range of sports that was unheard of in the 90s.
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Yeah, I think that's all thanks to title IX. It takes a long time for systematic changes like that to work their way through the system.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Richest Women in the USA (2025 - Top 10)

Alice Walton: ~$106B–$117B (Walmart)
Julia Koch & family: ~$81.2B (Koch Industries)
Jacqueline Mars: ~$41.5B–$42.2B (Mars, Inc.)
Miriam Adelson & family: ~$37.9B (Casinos)
Abigail Johnson: ~$35B (Fidelity)
MacKenzie Scott: ~$33.9B (Amazon)
Marilyn Simons & family: ~$32.5B (Hedge funds)
Elaine Marshall & family: ~$30.9B (Koch Inc.)
Melinda French Gates: ~$29B (Investments)
Lyndal Stephens Greth & family: ~$27.4B (Oil & Gas)
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I wonder if any of them like dogs, especially sly poker-playing ones.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think anybody said they'd be where they are without her. But the league would almost certainly be growing thanks to the huge funding round the wnba did a few years ago and invested in the new marketing strategy.

It was successful before CC and helped her become as popular as she is. She had to be a great and marketable player and personality to get to these heights, but the WNBA has done well to squeeze everything they can out if it.
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In fairness to CC ... she was a massive star in college ... the WNBA did very little to help get her to new heights as her popularity was a runaway freight train before being drafted. If anything it felt like the WNBA rode her coat tails to being much more popular and dipped in viewers as she was hurt.
 
bigbailes said:
In fairness to CC ... she was a massive star in college ... the WNBA did very little to help get her to new heights as her popularity was a runaway freight train before being drafted. If anything it felt like the WNBA rode her coat tails to being much more popular and dipped in viewers as she was hurt.
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The WNBA did a ton of advertising those college athletes. They did the same for Sabrina.

They have really been pumping up the college talent pipeline.

It was genius. It has worked incredibly well.

They've used this CC vs Angel Reese stuff to perfection.

That doesn't take anything away from CC. I'm not sure how I was being unfair to her. She obviously had to do her part. The WNBA put that money toward the college talent in general.

CC still had to go get it done on the court. I'm not taking that away from her. I'm not minimizing that.

Saying that the WNBA is being run much better now and would be fine ( even without Caitlin Clark) is not a diss on Caitlin Clark. The idea that it is some kind of insult and needs defended against boggles my mind.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The WNBA did a ton of advertising those college athletes. They did the same for Sabrina.

They have really been pumping up the college talent pipeline.
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They have? The WNBA ran advertising about them while they were in college? I don't think so, don't think that's allowed. I'm pretty sure it was ESPN, CBS, etc that was marketing the Iowa years of Clark, not the WNBA.
 
BoBoBREWSKI said:
They have? The WNBA ran advertising about them while they were in college? I don't think so, don't think that's allowed. I'm pretty sure it was ESPN, CBS, etc that was marketing the Iowa years of Clark, not the WNBA.
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The ads for college basketball got a lot better and more frequent after The WNBA did the funding round and changed its marketing strategy.

There's no way that was coincidence.

It wasn't just for Caitlin Clark, either. A lot of top women's college basketball players got far more exposure.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The ads for college basketball got a lot better and more frequent after The WNBA did the funding round and changed its marketing strategy.

There's no way that was coincidence.

It wasn't just for Caitlin Clark, either. A lot of top women's college basketball players got far more exposure.
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I don't disagree that they got more exposure. They 100% did. My point is that it wasn't the WNBA doing it. It was the NCAA, their NIL endorsements, ESPN, CBS etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd love to see an example of the WNBA promoting them while they were still in college (except for promoting the draft, but even that was the network that aired it on TV).
 
BoBoBREWSKI said:
I don't disagree that they got more exposure. They 100% did. My point is that it wasn't the WNBA doing it. It was the NCAA, their NIL endorsements, ESPN, CBS etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd love to see an example of the WNBA promoting them while they were still in college (except for promoting the draft, but even that was the network that aired it on TV).
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I mean, I guess it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if it was the NCAA or not. Then it was the WNBA was an assumption on my part.

The point is that the marketing strategy hadn't been that way, and then it got that way (prior to CC) and that is the difference.

Caitlin Clark stardom definitely adds to that.

I'm certainly not trying to suggest that the WNBA is infallible.
 
Watched something today someone wnba beat person said something like 98% of the league are free agents! Busy couple weeks coming up!
 
Phatguysrule said:
The WNBA did a ton of advertising those college athletes. They did the same for Sabrina.

They have really been pumping up the college talent pipeline.

It was genius. It has worked incredibly well.

They've used this CC vs Angel Reese stuff to perfection.

That doesn't take anything away from CC. I'm not sure how I was being unfair to her. She obviously had to do her part. The WNBA put that money toward the college talent in general.

CC still had to go get it done on the court. I'm not taking that away from her. I'm not minimizing that.

Saying that the WNBA is being run much better now and would be fine ( even without Caitlin Clark) is not a diss on Caitlin Clark. The idea that it is some kind of insult and needs defended against boggles my mind.
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I guess you value the 'marketing' the WNBA did much more than I do. CC was a house hold name for most sports fans two seasons before she even stepped on stage at the WNBA draft and Angel Reese wasn't far behind her. Would the WNBA still exist if there was no CC, sure because the NBA has been subsidizing them for decades, but make no mistake, the league hit a new gear when Clark and to a lesser degree Angel Reese came in with their ready made rivalry. I get people in the NW want to make Sabrina a thing, coming from Oregon and playing now in NYC, but I really doubt most casual sports fans have any idea who she is and the general public has no idea, despite all the marketing push she's gotten from the WNBA and NBA.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
The ads for college basketball got a lot better and more frequent after The WNBA did the funding round and changed its marketing strategy.

There's no way that was coincidence.

It wasn't just for Caitlin Clark, either. A lot of top women's college basketball players got far more exposure.
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I would love to see some sort of evidence that the WNBA was paying for the marketing of the NCAA games. Personally I think the WNBA saw the writing on the wall since Clark/Reese was a big deal the season BEFORE they entered the draft. The WNBA knew they had a golden goose coming and went out for funding riding those coat tails. There's a reason the league was an after thought for decades even with so many really good basketball players coming through, but magically went to new heights when their first true media sensation showed up (and then took a big drop in the ratings when she got hurt).
 
bigbailes said:
I would love to see some sort of evidence that the WNBA was paying for the marketing of the NCAA games. Personally I think the WNBA saw the writing on the wall since Clark/Reese was a big deal the season BEFORE they entered the draft. The WNBA knew they had a golden goose coming and went out for funding riding those coat tails. There's a reason the league was an after thought for decades even with so many really good basketball players coming through, but magically went to new heights when their first true media sensation showed up (and then took a big drop in the ratings when she got hurt).
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This was before anybody knew Clark or Reese.

Sabrina got the same kind of attention in ads. I believe there was a bunch of WNBA draft ads that showed current college players...

It was a definite shift in marketing.

It could have been as simple as the WNBA working with the NCAA. What's good for one is typically good for the other.

Perhaps they decided to go with a title IX argument and pressured the NCAA into doing more ads for the women?

The point isn't who paid for it. It's not trying to take one side against the other. It's just saying that the marketing changed and that's what was driving more people to watch games and led to improved ratings.

When The Clark/Reese thing started happening the marketing machine was already set up to take advantage of it. And it worked out great for everyone.
 
bigbailes said:
I guess you value the 'marketing' the WNBA did much more than I do. CC was a house hold name for none sports fans two seasons before she even stepped on stage at the WNBA draft and Angel Reese wasn't far behind her. Would the WNBA still exist if there was no CC, sure because the NBA has been subsidizing them for decades, but make no mistake, the league hit a new gear when Clark and to a lesser degree Angel Reese came in with their ready made rivalry. I get people in the NW want to make Sabrina a thing, coming from Oregon and playing now in NYC, but I really doubt most casual sports fans have any idea who she is and the general public has no idea, despite all the marketing push she's gotten from the WNBA and NBA.
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Right, and ratings for WNBA and NCAA had already started improving before that.

Yes, the league hit a new gear with Clark. Yes, the league took great advantage of the Reese Clark thing.

The League was able to do that so well because they had their marketing dialed already.

Nobody is trying to make Sabrina a thing. It has nothing to do with how many people know Sabrina. This is not a comparison between Clark and Sabrina. This is not a diss on Clark.

This is a discussion about the timing of when the league actually started seeing improved ratings. And that was before Clark was on the scene and was when the league and NCAA decided to change the marketing strategy around women's basketball.

Women's basketball fans had always said that if they would actually market it the league would get more popular. But there was never any marketing for women's basketball.

It's no surprise to me that they started that new marketing campaign and found a star within a couple years.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Right, and ratings for WNBA and NCAA had already started improving before that.

Yes, the league hit a new gear with Clark. Yes, the league took great advantage of the Reese Clark thing.

The League was able to do that so well because they had their marketing dialed already.

Nobody is trying to make Sabrina a thing. It has nothing to do with how many people know Sabrina. This is not a comparison between Clark and Sabrina. This is not a diss on Clark.

This is a discussion about the timing of when the league actually started seeing improved ratings. And that was before Clark was on the scene and was when the league and NCAA decided to change the marketing strategy around women's basketball.

Women's basketball fans had always said that if they would actually market it the league would get more popular. But there was never any marketing for women's basketball.

It's no surprise to me that they started that new marketing campaign and found a star within a couple years.
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The WNBA had a we got next marketing thing a decade or two ago. It annoyed me initially as I had zero interest in women's basketball but had it televised instead of NBA off-season things that I would have preferred.

I'm not sure any change in wnba marketing of recent years has led to WNBA success. Or if WNBA marketing just seems better because the WNBA has had more recent success. Kind of a chicken or an egg dynamic. Personally I follow and am impressed by women's sports much more than a decade or two ago and that had nothing to do with wnba marketing. Might be a lot of the population has just slowly changed their opinions.

I remember team USA women soccer in the late 90, Williams sisters tennis, Rhonda Rousy in the MMA, etc being significant to get women's sports more mainstream.

WNBA recent rise might have very little to do with the league or players and just be more of a reflection of larger changes in society.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
The WNBA had a we got next marketing thing a decade or two ago. It annoyed me initially as I had zero interest in women's basketball but had it televised instead of NBA off-season things that I would have preferred.

I'm not sure any change in wnba marketing of recent years has led to WNBA success. Or if WNBA marketing just seems better because the WNBA has had more recent success. Kind of a chicken or an egg dynamic. Personally I follow and am impressed by women's sports much more than a decade or two ago and that had nothing to do with wnba marketing. Might be a lot of the population has just slowly changed their opinions.

I remember team USA women soccer in the late 90, Williams sisters tennis, Rhonda Rousy in the MMA, etc being significant to get women's sports more mainstream.

WNBA recent rise might have very little to do with the league or players and just be more of a reflection of larger changes in society.
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Could be. This is just the pattern I noticed. I'm not at all surprised by the recent success.

10 years ago the wnba hadn't invested $70 million in a new marketing strategy. That's what was needed, IMO. Not just a couple ads. But an aggressive marketing strategy with staying power.
 
Quatro44 said:
Some details: Salary cap went from 1.5M to 7M, with the super max for a player is now at 1.4M.
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Looks like average player salary will be $600,000.

That's pretty solid. Hopefully next time they can get up to a million per year (inflation adjusted).

Looks like the revenue share will be about 20% for players. Which is just over double what they had been getting.

Good progress.
 
Could you imagine going into an NBA season where there are only a “HANDFUL” of players actually under contract. Wonder if our FIRE will be crazy active trying to land a big name free agent right out of the gate. Bring Sabrina back to the west coast FAMS!
 
THE HCP said:
Could you imagine going into an NBA season where there are only a “HANDFUL” of players actually under contract. Wonder if our FIRE will be crazy active trying to land a big name free agent right out of the gate. Bring Sabrina back to the west coast FAMS!
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I'd rather have Cameron Brink. Gotta keep the guard spot open for one of @Phatguysrule daughters.
 
bigbailes said:
I guess you value the 'marketing' the WNBA did much more than I do. CC was a house hold name for most sports fans two seasons before she even stepped on stage at the WNBA draft and Angel Reese wasn't far behind her. Would the WNBA still exist if there was no CC, sure because the NBA has been subsidizing them for decades, but make no mistake, the league hit a new gear when Clark and to a lesser degree Angel Reese came in with their ready made rivalry. I get people in the NW want to make Sabrina a thing, coming from Oregon and playing now in NYC, but I really doubt most casual sports fans have any idea who she is and the general public has no idea, despite all the marketing push she's gotten from the WNBA and NBA.
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Sabrina had her final college season shut down before March Madness. I believe that Ducks team would have won the title and Sabrina would have been a HUGE star if not for COVID.
 
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