The "Overlooked Shooter" revolving door

[mook]

Based on how he played in Summer League, I think if Gary Trent Jr spent a second year at Duke he'd be a top 10-15 pick. He averaged 14ppg as a Freshman--he likely goes for 20-25ppg in his second year. We got him at #37.

Simons is the better pick, but given his size and his shooting ability, Trent is going to have a long career at least as a solid role player. Another damned fine second round pick.

Between Simons (24th), Trent (2nd round), Crabbe (2nd round), Connaughton (2nd round), Layman (2nd round) and Frazier (undrafted), Portland is just really good at turning mediocre-to-horrible prospects, always guards and SF's, into value.

Whether it's our scouts or just practicing with Dame & CJ, it's working. I'm a big fan of repeating what you do well. A huge part of Portland's strategy should be collecting low draft picks.

However, Portland needs to do more to leverage their work. All these guys walk once their contracts are up. It's nice to have these guys fill roster spots effectively (and cheaply!), but in the end you want to turn all that work into some long-term value. What's keeping Portland from doing it?

It feels like we don't have a D-League team because we are a D-League team for the rest of the league. I can just imagine rival GM's having conversations like, "Man, we could use another shooter off the bench. Who's walking from Portland this year?"

 

[BonesJones]

Herro is already better than Trent so I disagree. Overall point is solid though.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Herro is already better than Trent so I disagree.

Exactly what are you disagreeing with? What does Herro have to do with anything in the OP? I'm missing the connection.

 

[BonesJones]

What does Herro have to do with anything in the OP? I'm missing the connection.

He said Trent would be a top 10-15 pick.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

He said Trent would be a top 10-15 pick.

Ahh, I see. Thank you.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

He said Trent would be a top 10-15 pick.

I might counter that Cam Johnson went 11. If Trent had stayed a second year at Duke, you don't think he would have been valued similarly going into the draft?

 

[BonesJones]

I might counter that Cam Johnson went 11. If Trent had stayed a second year at Duke, you don't think he would have been valued similarly going into the draft?

A 6'9 3pt specialist is harder to find than a 6'6 one.

Also, Phoenix is dumb.

 

[Sarni]

I might counter that Cam Johnson went 11. If Trent had stayed a second year at Duke, you don't think he would have been valued similarly going into the draft?

Cam Johnson going 11 was mad crazy though.

 

[mook]

Cam Johnson was a 4 year college kid who averaged 16ppg as a senior.

Trent averaged 14ppg as a Freshman before going pro. He averaged 33ppg over 6 games in the G-League. He was 11th in scoring in Summer League.

I think he was pretty poised to have a breakout season as a sophomore at Duke if he'd stayed.

It's pretty reasonable to think he might've gone 10-15 in this year's draft.

 

[mook]

Herro is already better than Trent so I disagree. Overall point is solid though.

Herro was drafted 11th. So it's quite possible Trent goes 12-15 even if you're right that he is better. I haven't watched Herro play so I have no basis to judge that.

 

[Scalma]

Cam Johnson was a 4 year college kid who averaged 16ppg as a senior.

Trent averaged 14ppg as a Freshman before going pro. He averaged 33ppg over 6 games in the G-League. He was 11th in scoring in Summer League.

I think he was pretty poised to have a breakout season as a sophomore at Duke if he'd stayed.

It's pretty reasonable to think he might've gone 10-15 in this year's draft.

Trent was so minimized in his lone year at Duke. He had the lowest usage rate among the starters and rarely had the ball in his hands. He was essentially an outlet, which is fine, guys can carve out long careers being one, but Trent brings a lot more to the table. He’s got the potential to be an inside out scorer, a rarity among shooting guards these days. He’s also the same age as Simons, so I don’t really understand the blazer fans that have already written him off and are tossing him in as filler in every trade proposal.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The one time we DIDN'T let that kind of player walk was Allen Crabbe, so maybe Olshey learned his lesson from that...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Trent reminds me of a poor man's Wesley Matthews.

 

[LayneStaley]

Trent reminds me of a less explosive JR Smith.


I don’t like JR Smith.

 

[illmatic99]

Trent reminds me of a poor man's Wesley Matthews.

I see this thrown around quite often and I just don't see it. Wesley was a physical specimen-- dude was a tank and had elite lateral footwork. And his arms were long as well 7'1 vs 6'8. Trent might become the shooter Wes was, but nowhere near the defender. I think Little is a better Wes analog.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think Little is a better Wes analog.

Little is a poor man's Aminu.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I see this thrown around quite often and I just don't see it. Wesley was a physical specimen-- dude was a tank and had elite lateral footwork. And his arms were long as well 7'1 vs 6'8. Trent might become the shooter Wes was, but nowhere near the defender.

Trent is a physical specimen! And yes, Trent's defense is nowhere near Matthews' (and will probably never be). Hence "poor man's".

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The one time we DIDN'T let that kind of player walk was Allen Crabbe, so maybe Olshey learned his lesson from that...

No.
IDK why you're bring Crabbe into it, unless you're saying we should pay Trent $80 mil... why is a "silly" point.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Trent reminds me of a poor man's Wesley Matthews.

Yes.
But, Wes was a destitute man's Wes when he entered the league - his shot was completely revamped his rookie year.

 

[Scalma]

Trent is a physical specimen! And yes, Trent's defense is nowhere near Matthews' (and will probably never be). Hence "poor man's".

Yeah. These two are the same age.



What’s Gary going to look like in his prime? For example, here’s Jimmy Butler at 20.



I think Butler is a better comp than Matthews for Trent, at least offensively. Better ballhandler, more dynamic scorer. Matthews is more of a complimentary scorer that has a three and an occasional post up. He’s not someone that handles the ball in a pick and roll or is asked to go create his own shot and win his team a game. Butler is closer, but he didn’t become that until his mid 20s. It’s ok to be patient.

 

[BBert]

True Wes was a terrible ball handler. Trent is a pretty decent one.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

True Wes was a terrible ball handler. Trent is a pretty decent one.

Agree to disagree about that second part.

 

[B-Roy]

I see Matthews in Trent. They like doing the same things in the floor, good 3 point shooting, step back jumpers, post fade-aways, poor ball handling, tunnel vision on drives. Even their movements are similar.

Also, Trent came out after one year. Wes was a 4 year guy when he hit the league, so I wouldn’t be too worried about Trent filling his body out. He’s already pretty developed for a 20 year old.

 

[Voodoo]

Trent is a physical specimen! And yes, Trent's defense is nowhere near Matthews' (and will probably never be). Hence "poor man's".

Sounds more the dollar store mans Wes Matthews.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Which Wes Matthews are you guys talking about?

Are you talking about the guy who, at Trent's age, shot 28.8 3FG% and averaged 12 ppg his sophomore year of college?
Are you talking about the guy who was undrafted?
Are you talking 24+ year old Portland Wes?
Are you talking Injured Dallas Wes?
Are you talking Last year Wes who shot 40% from the field, and played for 3 different teams?

Like I said, Wes is a destitute man's Portland Wes - when he was Trent's age and now. Why do you want to compare current Trent to Wes in his prime? That seems ridiculous.

It's only sensible to compare the player's at the same age, if you want to compare them at all. If you do that, Trent is WAY ahead. Of course, Wes had some explosion growth in his game (as well as his body), due in no small part to his work ethic. Trent's work ethic is also off-the-charts.

I loved Wes while he was here, but the romanticizing in this thread....

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Which Wes Matthews are you guys talking about?

Are you talking about the guy who, at Trent's age, shot 28.8 3FG% and averaged 12 ppg his sophomore year of college?
Are you talking about the guy who was undrafted?
Are you talking 24+ year old Portland Wes?
Are you talking Injured Dallas Wes?
Are you talking Last year Wes who shot 40% from the field, and played for 3 different teams?

Like I said, Wes is a destitute man's Portland Wes - when he was Trent's age and now. Why do you want to compare current Trent to Wes in his prime? That seems ridiculous.

It's only sensible to compare the player's at the same age, if you want to compare them at all. If you do that, Trent is WAY ahead. Of course, Wes had some explosion growth in his game (as well as his body), due in no small part to his work ethic. Trent's work ethic is also off-the-charts.

I loved Wes while he was here, but the romanticizing in this thread....

Nobody's saying Wes was all that. Saying that Trent is a "poor man's Wesley Matthews" is damning with faint praise.

That said, the difference between Wes and Trent is that Wes made the team he was part of better by doing all the little things. Trent shows little sign of that yet: he looks like a guy who developed his game by himself or with a trainer rather than in a 5-on-5 setting.
Also: Wes went undrafted, so Trent SHOULD be better.