The Pro Nurk thread

[Mr. Robot]

The world where Norm is a 2.

two or three, nurk is still the better player

however, we can discuss who is the better fit, depending on how this team is going to play

 

[Mr. Robot]

It is the position he plays. Nurk is not a pillar of a winning franchise. Centers that are playable, and worth decent roles are getting paid minimum deals. You can get much more value for centers with lower deals than you generally can for a minimum shooting guard (ben mclemore is an example).

Lets not forget Nurk is also more fragile than Powell historically has been in his career. Thay comes into play when you are throwing money at someone. Maybe doctors check him out and have no concerns.

look, andre drummond got 5/127 in 2016 and hassan whiteside got 4/98 the same year, now theyre both on minimum contracts

the game hasnt changed in these 5 years, it exactly the same, but drummond and whiteside have changed, thats why theyre earning as much as theyre earning now

jonas valanciunas signed 4/64 in 2016, 3/45 in 2019, 2/30 in 2021

steven adams signed 4/100 in 2016 and 2/35 in 2020

nikola vucevic signed 4/100 in 2019

clint capela signed 5/90 in 2018

myles turner signed 4/80 in 2019

looking at these contracts, there is literally no way that nurk is not worth at least 4/70, but the blazers can say to nurk: "look, there is no market for you, teams have no money available, were gonna give you 4/40, take it or leave it", which is exactly what happened in 2017 when they gave him 4/48 according to me, but if were speaking how much money nurk deserves, he deserves at least 4/70...

 

[SlyPokerCat]

look, andre drummond got 5/127 in 2016 and hassan whiteside got 4/98 the same year, now theyre both on minimum contracts

the game hasnt changed in these 5 years, it exactly the same, but drummond and whiteside have changed, thats why theyre earning as much as theyre earning now

jonas valanciunas signed 4/64 in 2016, 3/45 in 2019, 2/30 in 2021

steven adams signed 4/100 in 2016 and 2/35 in 2020

nikola vucevic signed 4/100 in 2019

clint capela signed 5/90 in 2018

myles turner signed 4/80 in 2019

looking at these contracts, there is literally no way that nurk is not worth at least 4/70, but the blazers can say to nurk: "look, there is no market for you, teams have no money available, were gonna give you 4/40, take it or leave it", which is exactly what happened in 2017 when they gave him 4/48 according to me, but if were speaking how much money nurk deserves, he deserves at least 4/70...

He deserves what the market is willing to pay him.

Just because other teams may have given bad contracts once upon a time has nothing to do with what we should give him.

 

[Mr. Robot]

Play 24 minutes per game and lead us to a below .500 record?

I know there are multiple reasons why we are below .500 and Nurkic is not fully to blame.

But, still. Not interested in overpaying for someone too much that would get MLE offers on the open market.

you can look at the market and give nurk contact based on that or you can pay him the money he deserves

sure, its good business decision to pay a lot less money that what certain player is worth, but its also not fair, after all, its not players fault that teams have no cap space

 

[SlyPokerCat]

you can look at the market and give nurk contact based on that or you can pay him the money he deserves

sure, its good business decision to pay a lot less money that what certain player is worth, but its also not fair, after all, its not players fault that teams have no cap space

That's how teams get in cap hell. Overpaying players based on feelings and not what the market dictates.

 

[Mr. Robot]

He deserves what the market is willing to pay him.

Just because other teams may have given bad contracts once upon a time has nothing to do with what we should give him.

you say those are bad contracts, their teams obviously dont think so and youd probably like to see players play for free

what if dame was becoming free agent and demanding max contract and no other team in the league could give him one, would you still give him max contract or would you underpay him a lot (market and stuff, you know)

 

[HailBlazers]

It is the position he plays. Nurk is not a pillar of a winning franchise.

Disagree. Bogut was absolutely key in the Dubs first modern era chip.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Disagree. Bogut was absolutely key in the Dubs first modern era chip.

They had way better players than us. The point is, Nurk is a role player.

Could he be on a nba championship team? Absolutely. But not as a top 3 player. No way.

 

[Mr. Robot]

That's how teams get in cap hell. Overpaying players based on feelings and not what the market dictates.

there are bad contacts of course, but not every contract on a team is bad , you pay what you think player is worth, simple as that

there are certain situations when players ask for more money than they are worth and you just have to overpay them in order not to lose them or situations like this one, when player is worth more than he can get in the market

im hoping nurk wont sign another cheap contract, if he gets one from the blazers, just tell them to fuck off and leave in free agency

 

[andalusian]

You realise thats one team and one that has historically all-time great shooters and which playing style was perimeter oriented

When was the best player on an NBA championship team a Center last? Shaq?

Who are the best teams in the league this year and where does their center rank within their roster?

We already talked about the Warriors.
The Suns have a more mobile center than Nurk and he is probably #4 in their rotation behind CP3, Booker, Bridges,
On the Jazz, Gobert, which is a much much better center than Nurk is #2 in their rotation - but he is a defensive player of the year that anchors one of the best defenses in the league,
The Nets have LMA and Claxton as their centers - even without Kyrie they are at most the 5th or 6th most important player on the roster.

Traditional centers are not that important in the modern NBA. Especially centers that are not fast enough to switch on perimeter players. You have to be super switchable (like Bam) or be very dominant offensively, like Jokic which runs your entire offense or Embiid which can dominate on the block.

This is the modern NBA, and the only reason Nurk is that important to the Blazers is because they went super small with 2 minus defenders in the back-court. If you fix that - he is even less important. Even with this problematic roster construction he was only played about 24 minutes a game - you just can't keep him longer on the court between conditioning and speed.

There are currently 9 centers in the NBA that make $18m+ a year, there are 17 shooting guards that make $18 or more, 17 small forwards that make $18m or more (for the record, Norm makes $15.5m this year, $16.7m next year and will hit $18m in 2023/2024 - he will average about $18,/year for the contract, but at the moment, he is not making that much).

 

[SlyPokerCat]

there are bad contacts of course, but not every contract on a team is bad , you pay what you think player is worth, simple as that

there are certain situations when players ask for more money than they are worth and you just have to overpay them in order not to lose them or situations like this one, when player is worth more than he can get in the market

im hoping nurk wont sign another cheap contract, if he gets one from the blazers, just tell them to fuck off and leave in free agency

Then trade him now for assets if the feeling is he will only resign as an overpay. He deserves what his market is set at.

 

[andalusian]

Then trade him now for assets if the feeling is he will only resign as an overpay. He deserves what his market is set at.

Frankly, I would rather overpay for a good wing than Nurk. A lot more important for the Blazers to be competitive.

 

[Minstrel]

you say those are bad contracts, their teams obviously dont think so

look, andre drummond got 5/127 in 2016 and hassan whiteside got 4/98 the same year, now theyre both on minimum contracts

steven adams signed 4/100 in 2016 and 2/35 in 2020

Sure looks like the market corrected on that type of center, doesn't it? Nobody would give any of those players, even the 2016 versions, contracts in the $25-26M/year range these days.

 

[Mr. Robot]

Sure looks like the market corrected on that type of center, doesn't it? Nobody would give any of those players, even the 2016 versions, contracts in the $25-26M/year range these days.

that type od center still gets paid and i clearly named them and what contracts they were given

perhaps market has corrected on that type of center, but certainly not the point to go from 5/127 & 4/100 to minimum contracts in 5 years, game has not changed, its exactly the same... drummond and whiteside are idiots, thats why theyre on minimum contracts, not because of their type or anything else... nurk wont get minimum contract, if theres no market for him

 

[Minstrel]

that type od center still gets paid and i clearly named them and what contracts they were given

You named very different types of centers. Myles Turner is not a center "like" Nurkic. He's a stretch 5 who has more defensive versatility. Capella is fast, explosive lob threat who, again, has defensive versatility. He has switchability.

Centers still get paid, just not (usually) slow-footed, post-up centers.

nurk wont get minimum contract, if theres no market for him

Nobody said he would. It's just that many of us don't think he's worth $20M+/year. I think he's worth in the $10-15M range for Portland. Probably less to most teams that don't already employ him and have him as an existing part of their salary structure.

 

[blazerkor]

according to some of you, norm is worth 18 per year, but nurk isnt, not even close

in which universe is norm better player than nurk

Maybe in a universe where Norm is mobile and Nurk isn't. In a universe where Norm has a jumper and Nurk doesn't. Norm finishes strong at the hoop and Nurk doesn't. Norm can defend multiple positions and Nurk can not. Norm has shown he can be a major contributor to a championship... no one else on this roster has. So yeah, it's this universe that Norm is better than Nurk.

We would be much better off with a mobile/versatile modern C that knows he's a role player than with Nurk who only knows how to use his one true gift (his size and strength) on one end of the floor and is an inconsistent complete headcase who thinks he's an all star.

 

[blazerkor]

You named very different types of centers. Myles Turner is not a center "like" Nurkic. He's a stretch 5 who has more defensive versatility. Capella is fast, explosive lob threat who, again, has defensive versatility. He has switchability.

Centers still get paid, just not (usually) slow-footed, post-up centers.



Nobody said he would. It's just that many of us don't think he's worth $20M+/year. I think he's worth in the $10-15M range for Portland. Probably less to most teams that don't already employ him and have him as an existing part of their salary structure.

If Nurk isn't ready to take a pay cut from us on a long term deal (which there's no way his pride would allow) we need to trade him to a team that isn't running a defense predicated on switchability and being able to recover from blitzes to get back to protect the hoop. Trade him to a team that misguidedly thinks they can make him finish strong at the hole. I like Chauncey and if Nurk is playing in Chauncey's system he's only actually good for 24 minutes a game which doesn't even make him a starter it makes him a platooning role player. Definitely not worth what he's being paid now let alone a raise.

 

[Mr. Robot]

top 100 nba players in 2021/2022 by sports illustrated:

• nurk 65 (44 in 2020)

• norm 92 (wasnt ranked in 2020)

top 100 nba players in 2021/2022 by espn:

• nurk 74 (53 in 2020)

• norm 100 (wasnt ranked in 2020)

well, lets just say they think like i am and not like some of you are and if it wasnt for injuries, difference between them would be even bigger... and if nurk gets bigger role, difference will be bigger without a doubt

 

[riverman]

When was the best player on an NBA championship team a Center last? Shaq?

Who are the best teams in the league this year and where does their center rank within their roster?

We already talked about the Warriors.
The Suns have a more mobile center than Nurk and he is probably #4 in their rotation behind CP3, Booker, Bridges,
On the Jazz, Gobert, which is a much much better center than Nurk is #2 in their rotation - but he is a defensive player of the year that anchors one of the best defenses in the league,
The Nets have LMA and Claxton as their centers - even without Kyrie they are at most the 5th or 6th most important player on the roster.

Traditional centers are not that important in the modern NBA. Especially centers that are not fast enough to switch on perimeter players. You have to be super switchable (like Bam) or be very dominant offensively, like Jokic which runs your entire offense or Embiid which can dominate on the block.

This is the modern NBA, and the only reason Nurk is that important to the Blazers is because they went super small with 2 minus defenders in the back-court. If you fix that - he is even less important. Even with this problematic roster construction he was only played about 24 minutes a game - you just can't keep him longer on the court between conditioning and speed.

There are currently 9 centers in the NBA that make $18m+ a year, there are 17 shooting guards that make $18 or more, 17 small forwards that make $18m or more (for the record, Norm makes $15.5m this year, $16.7m next year and will hit $18m in 2023/2024 - he will average about $18,/year for the contract, but at the moment, he is not making that much).

Tim Duncan if you called him a center probably..

 

[blazerkor]

top 100 nba players in 2021/2022 by sports illustrated:

• nurk 65 (44 in 2020)

• norm 92 (wasnt ranked in 2020)

top 100 nba players in 2021/2022 by espn:

• nurk 74 (53 in 2020)

• norm 100 (wasnt ranked in 2020)

well, lets just say they think like i am and not like some of you are and if it wasnt for injuries, difference between them would be even bigger... and if nurk gets bigger role, difference will be bigger without a doubt

One of them is climbing the ranks and the other is dropping. Also the national media doesn't have to watch Nurk throw up weak ass garbage every night, terribly try and execute Magic Johnson level passes and listen to him talk about how he's an all star and underutilized. I hope GMs around the league value Nurk as somewhere around the 70th best player in the league and that they're willing to give us that kind of return in a trade for him.

 

[Strenuus]

top 100 nba players in 2021/2022 by sports illustrated:

• nurk 65 (44 in 2020)

• norm 92 (wasnt ranked in 2020)

top 100 nba players in 2021/2022 by espn:

• nurk 74 (53 in 2020)

• norm 100 (wasnt ranked in 2020)

well, lets just say they think like i am and not like some of you are and if it wasnt for injuries, difference between them would be even bigger... and if nurk gets bigger role, difference will be bigger without a doubt

Because GMs give money out based on one number.

Norm means more if he's a 2. Trade cj and your entire argument is moot. It's really REALLY simple.

 

[Mr. Robot]

im done discussing bball with clueless people

my (troll) takes are terrible, but your serious takes are even worse

 

[Minstrel]

im done discussing bball with clueless people

my (troll) takes are terrible, but your serious takes are even worse

I guess we'll see how the market values him. I'm sure if Nurk signs for ~10-12M per year, you'll say that the NBA as a whole is clueless and doesn't know basketball like you do.

You shouldn't invest emotionally in players, they'll only break your heart (and make you argue crazy things).

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Nurk is 4/50 in my book.
Best he should get. That is if and only if he can stay healthy this season. If he has any type of injury that costs him substantial time I would give him no more than a minimum contract.

 

[andalusian]

Tim Duncan if you called him a center probably..

Tim played center at their last championship, but kawahi was the best player at that point.

He player more PF in their early championships. He certainly was a great post player, but usually played next to a more traditional center

 

[Predator]

Jonas makes 15 mill per season.
Jonas plays more minutes per game than Jusuf.
Jusuf deserves less than 15 mill.

 

[Labinot41]

Nurks stats look a lot better than he really is. Good thing is only Blazers Fans know that

 

[Mr. Robot]

I guess we'll see how the market values him. I'm sure if Nurk signs for ~10-12M per year, you'll say that the NBA as a whole is clueless and doesn't know basketball like you do.

You shouldn't invest emotionally in players, they'll only break your heart (and make you argue crazy things).

"how market values him", that would make sense if teams have a lot of money available, but they choose not to pay him a lot of money

if teams dont have money available, that doesnt speak about his value, does it

you cant offer what you dont have

 

[SlyPokerCat]

"how market values him", that would make sense if teams have a lot of money available, but they choose not to pay him a lot of money

if teams dont have money available, that doesnt speak about his value, does it

you cant offer what you dont have

Then he should bet on himself for a year teams would have money to sign him. Sign a 1 or 2 year deal.

 

[Minstrel]

"how market values him", that would make sense if teams have a lot of money available, but they choose not to pay him a lot of money

if teams dont have money available, that doesnt speak about his value, does it

The salary cap has been a reality for decades, Nurkic is not the only player who has to deal with it.