OT The Progressive march to National Healthcare

[MarAzul]

If I interpret history correctly, Benito Mussolini is the founder of the Progressive movement in the United States. He was also the originator of the National Socialist movement in Europe. Quit a feat for a small time communist in Italy.

Well the National Socialist are gone in Europe, and no one remembers Benito as the originator of the progressive movement in this country, and perhaps the connection is not a solid line. Woodrow Wilson admired Mussolini very much and began to use his programs and techniques for his own end. While some credit Teddy Roosevelt as the first Progressive, but it has to be Wilson that really got it underway. When Benito hired Maria Montessori to teach the children of Italy to be different than their fathers, Woodrow Wilson pickup that mission as his own for the public school system in this country. Make the children as different from their fathers as possible.

Well time has passed, National Socialism became a nasty thing, and Progressive sort of did too because of the connection through Wilson - Mussolini. Liberal became the word and the movement lived on, but you see Progressive becoming the favored word again since time continues to pass and liberal wears out it's welcome.

The school system however, continued on, making the children ever more different from their father as more generations come and and fade. You can see it in this forum, only a few truly conservatives, older to be sure while the younger can't even guess why the Constitution says what it says, or even why they should care.

These thoughts come to my mind today, as I listen to Republicans that have no idea, they are way out of bounds, messing around with the business model of an industry, that may not be the total solution to healthcare, but it surely is useful. It will not be if it terminated by law or by making it unprofitable by regulation. You see it in how they conflate what insurance should cover with what National healthcare system should cover. People in this forum do the same thing. Seeing only one pool vs many meeting differing needs.

I expect this from the Progressive, but not the Republicans. Foolish error! They have all been though the Progressive school system.

I do not think well have the free thinkers to have a free country, and we will have a National Health system before another year. A system where the government will have even more control over the individual with one more handle to control that would be free man.

Perhaps we will get school vouchers and thereby schools that can and will teach freedom, but geez! We are now generations behind, and it will take generation to correct the course, especial since every alteration of course will be fought by those that always want one pool, with no avenue of escape for anyone.

 

[H.C.]

children ever more different from the father

Hilarious.

 

[MarAzul]

Hilarious.

I never thought to be funny, but I am please you were entertained.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If I interpret history correctly, Benito Mussolini is the founder of the Progressive movement in the United States. He was also the originator of the National Socialist movement in Europe. Quit a feat for a small time communist in Italy.

Well the National Socialist are gone in Europe, and no one remembers Benito as the originator of the progressive movement in this country, and perhaps the connection is not a solid line. Woodrow Wilson admired Mussolini very much and began to use his programs and techniques for his own end. While some credit Teddy Roosevelt as the first Progressive, but it has to be Wilson that really got it underway. When Benito hired Maria Montessori to teach the children of Italy to be different than their fathers, Woodrow Wilson pickup that mission as his own for the public school system in this country. Make the children as different from their fathers as possible.

Well time has passed, National Socialism became a nasty thing, and Progressive sort of did too because of the connection through Wilson - Mussolini. Liberal became the word and the movement lived on, but you see Progressive becoming the favored word again since time continues to pass and liberal wears out it's welcome.

The school system however, continued on, making the children ever more different from their father as more generations come and and fade. You can see it in this forum, only a few truly conservatives, older to be sure while the younger can't even guess why the Constitution says what it says, or even why they should care.

These thoughts come to my mind today, as I listen to Republicans that have no idea, they are way out of bounds, messing around with the business model of an industry, that may not be the total solution to healthcare, but it surely is useful. It will not be if it terminated by law or by making it unprofitable by regulation. You see it in how they conflate what insurance should cover with what National healthcare system should cover. People in this forum do the same thing. Seeing only one pool vs many meeting differing needs.

I expect this from the Progressive, but not the Republicans. Foolish error! They have all been though the Progressive school system.

I do not think well have the free thinkers to have a free country, and we will have a National Health system before another year. A system where the government will have even more control over the individual with one more handle to control that would be free man.

Perhaps we will get school vouchers and thereby schools that can and will teach freedom, but geez! We are now generations behind, and it will take generation to correct the course, especial since every alteration of course will be fought by those that always want one pool, with no avenue of escape for anyone.

 

[kingslayer]

Jesus Christ.

 

[H.C.]

I never thought to be funny, but I am please you were entertained.

SNL quality.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

These fucking shit stains had 8 years. 8 years! To draft something better. Clown town. All they said for the last forever was "repeal Obamacare, repeal Obamacare!". And these fucking sad sack loser idiots can't even agree on how to do it! After having 8 years to figure it out. Morons.

And the "master negotiator" trotted out this radioactive fecal fire hoping to negotiate it towards the middle with the democrats, only to learn he needed to negotiate it further to the right to appease the tea baggers! And it still shit the bed! What a buffoon!

Republicans, this is your party. A bunch of fucking idiots, led by a clown. About as useful as tits on a rose bush.

 

[MarAzul]

Jesus Christ.

Is he your savior?

 

[MarAzul]

this is your party

No, these guy do not apparently know any of the things I know. But more to the point I only have Democrats representing me. Now if anything gets fixed, I guess it will have to come from them
as far a healthcare is concerned.

Two of them are also your representatives, so I hope you help me get them going, the house republicans are incapable and I just can't put all hope in Democrat Peter DeFazio. I assume he isn't your representative.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

If I interpret history correctly, Benito Mussolini is the founder of the Progressive movement in the United States. He was also the originator of the National Socialist movement in Europe. Quit a feat for a small time communist in Italy.

Well the National Socialist are gone in Europe, and no one remembers Benito as the originator of the progressive movement in this country, and perhaps the connection is not a solid line. Woodrow Wilson admired Mussolini very much and began to use his programs and techniques for his own end. While some credit Teddy Roosevelt as the first Progressive, but it has to be Wilson that really got it underway. When Benito hired Maria Montessori to teach the children of Italy to be different than their fathers, Woodrow Wilson pickup that mission as his own for the public school system in this country. Make the children as different from their fathers as possible.

Well time has passed, National Socialism became a nasty thing, and Progressive sort of did too because of the connection through Wilson - Mussolini. Liberal became the word and the movement lived on, but you see Progressive becoming the favored word again since time continues to pass and liberal wears out it's welcome.

The school system however, continued on, making the children ever more different from their father as more generations come and and fade. You can see it in this forum, only a few truly conservatives, older to be sure while the younger can't even guess why the Constitution says what it says, or even why they should care.

These thoughts come to my mind today, as I listen to Republicans that have no idea, they are way out of bounds, messing around with the business model of an industry, that may not be the total solution to healthcare, but it surely is useful. It will not be if it terminated by law or by making it unprofitable by regulation. You see it in how they conflate what insurance should cover with what National healthcare system should cover. People in this forum do the same thing. Seeing only one pool vs many meeting differing needs.

I expect this from the Progressive, but not the Republicans. Foolish error! They have all been though the Progressive school system.

I do not think well have the free thinkers to have a free country, and we will have a National Health system before another year. A system where the government will have even more control over the individual with one more handle to control that would be free man.

Perhaps we will get school vouchers and thereby schools that can and will teach freedom, but geez! We are now generations behind, and it will take generation to correct the course, especial since every alteration of course will be fought by those that always want one pool, with no avenue of escape for anyone.

while accurate, i resemble that remark! I was extremely liberal graduating high school. at 20 I got curious about the bible and started reading it. at first i was like wtf is this gibberish? Then I started to critically think. I owe it to the bible for teaching me how to critically think. as i learned to think for myself rather than follow what my teachers had told me and trying to be "trendy and cool" i became much more conservative minded. I purchased my first firearm after growing up being terrified of guns. my liberal parents, my 5th grade dare teacher telling me that if i find a gun i should tell the police, like it has some inherent evil. after plinking with a friend I saw how much fun a firearm can be, and how relaxing a day of plinking could be. Then i began educating myself on the constitution and realized firearm ownership was more of a responsibility than a pleasure.

My first good job I still felt like the world owed me and thus developed a lazy attitude toward work. another great life lesson when i was let go. Now I put my all into my craft and don't expect help from anyone, especially hard working tax payers.

Now at 30 I'm as anti liberal as it gets. I practically throw liberals in my basement and force them to rub the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. I'm the ultimate alpha male. Thunder lips, in the flesh, baby.

 

[MarAzul]

while accurate, i resemble that remark! I was extremely liberal graduating high school. at 20 I got curious about the bible and started reading it. at first i was like wtf is this gibberish? Then I started to critically think. I owe it to the bible for teaching me how to critically think. as i learned to think for myself rather than follow what my teachers had told me and trying to be "trendy and cool" i became much more conservative minded. I purchased my first firearm after growing up being terrified of guns. my liberal parents, my 5th grade dare teacher telling me that if i find a gun i should tell the police, like it has some inherent evil. after plinking with a friend I saw how much fun a firearm can be, and how relaxing a day of plinking could be. Then i began educating myself on the constitution and realized firearm ownership was more of a responsibility than a pleasure.

My first good job I still felt like the world owed me and thus developed a lazy attitude toward work. another great life lesson when i was let go. Now I put my all into my craft and don't expect help from anyone, especially hard working tax payers.

Now at 30 I'm as anti liberal as it gets. I practically throw liberals in my basement and force them to rub the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. I'm the ultimate alpha male. Thunder lips, in the flesh, baby.

Ha! Thanks for sharing.

 

[oldfisherman]

Short version; make it illegal for teachers to push their agenda on students. Schools should be required to teach their students how to think, and prohibited from teaching what to think.

Long version.
I can remember the very first time I was exposed to a teacher pushing an agenda. I had just finished 8 years in a Catholic school taught by nuns. Beyond being taught their version of religion (which has its faults), I never heard the nuns push an agenda, on any topic.

My first year in public school, the class was given an assignment to watch a political debate, and then make a report the next day on who should be elected, and why. Being naive, I reported what I believed in at that time. My views happened to be just the opposite views of what the teacher was well known to believe (except by the few new students like myself). The students that agreed with the teacher’s view received the best grades. I received barely a passing grade and a scolding by the teacher for my views on who should be elected.

Over the many decades, sadly, I have found this was not an isolated case, but more the norm in public schools. Agree with the agenda being taught, or suffer. No wonder home schooling is becoming more popular.

Stop teaching agendas in schools!!!! I believe this is one of the worst problems now facing future generations.

Sorry, MarAzul, beyond the teaching agendas in school topic, you lost me. But I would add to that topic. All sides take advantage of their influence over youth in schools to push their agenda, not just the progressives.

 

[MarAzul]

 

[riverman]

The school system however, continued on, making the children ever more different from their father as more generations come and and fade. You can see it in this forum, only a few truly conservatives, older to be sure while the younger can't even guess why the Constitution says what it says, or even why they should care.

This is such a shallow assumption about a lot of people who post here and what each individual does with their education. It's fine if you want to live in the 18th century but really? Mussolini? Wilson? Interesting not one civil rights champion made your list of contributors. People pre WWII in our country did some awful things to oppress fellow americans for a long time and you think those were the good old days? Didn't rain for 3 years in the heartland and that's the fault of liberal education? Want to get rid of disaster relief at home?

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I love your old timey BS. Back in the good old days of 1922...

No penicillin.

No polio vaccine.

No treatment for a heart attack besides bedrest.

The treatment for cancer was to cut the part of the body off they thought had cancer. But remember, no antibiotics so there was a great chance you would die from infection.

Life expectancy in the US was 58yrs if your a man.

 

[MarAzul]

All sides take advantage

Oh no! Now you are just attempting to be fair to soften your preceding truths . But in fact there is only one organized side, the Progressive. They become the teacher, they massively out number
those of us that live by logical. They win in the interviews because they project the right feeling but they apply way more often anyway. I can't even think of a conservative school counter to the Woodrow Wilson school of government at Princeton. Where Rachel Maddow got her Phd.

Not to say I don't appreciate their contribution in teaching the young, we need them to do it. Hell, you couldn't get me to do it. I can only teach those that want to learn, if not I sure am not equipped to inspire the laggards. But the systematic methods use are a little less clear, like the history taught has change very significantly over the years. The history hasn't changed but the emphasis has change greatly, in some cases it is not taught at all.

 

[MarAzul]

I love your old timey BS. Back in the good old days of 1922...

No penicillin.

No polio vaccine.

No treatment for a heart attack besides bedrest.

The treatment for cancer was to cut the part of the body off they thought had cancer. But remember, no antibiotics so there was a great chance you would die from infection.

Life expectancy in the US was 58yrs if your a man.

You seem to have trouble keeping up.
Well at least you have something.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Oh no! Now you are just attempting to be fair to soften your preceding truths . But in fact there is only one organized side, the Progressive. They become the teacher, they massively out number
those of us that live by logical. They win in the interviews because they project the right feeling but they apply way more often anyway. I can't even think of a conservative school counter to the Woodrow Wilson school of government at Princeton. Where Rachel Maddow got her Phd.

Not to say I don't appreciate their contribution in teaching the young, we need them to do it. Hell, you couldn't get me to do it. I can only teach those that want to learn, if not I sure am not equipped to inspire the laggards. But the systematic methods use are a little less clear, like the history taught has change very significantly over the years. The history hasn't changed but the emphasis has change greatly, in some cases it is not taught at all.

You're not saying that we should learn history, you're advocating for living in the past.

Then you try to make some weird argument that if everyone thought like you did we would live in some sort of utopia.

And the counter to Princeton would be Bob Jones University.

 

[MarAzul]

This is such a shallow assumption about a lot of people who post here and what each individual does with their education. It's fine if you want to live in the 18th century but really? Mussolini? Wilson? Interesting not one civil rights champion made your list of contributors. People pre WWII in our country did some awful things to oppress fellow americans for a long time and you think those were the good old days? Didn't rain for 3 years in the heartland and that's the fault of liberal education? Want to get rid of disaster relief at home?

My goodness! I would have thought, you of all people would know some of this history. At least you remember Wilson brought us that base rock of the Progress Universe, the Income Tax.

 

[riverman]

My goodness! I would have thought, you of all people would know some of this history. At least you remember Wilson brought us that base rock of the Progress Universe, the Income Tax.

Before that we had no sewage treatment plants and the entire country had about 2000 miles of paved road....horse urine and manure were deposited at your doorstop daily....the organization of infrastructure in our history is interesting...hence...income tax.

 

[MarAzul]

the counter to Princeton would be Bob Jones University.

>>> Never heard of it. So that would hardly be a counter.

make some weird argument that if everyone thought like you did we would live in some sort of utopia.

No Sly I have no thought of utopia. I would like to see a common language perhaps even common expatiations.
For instants, if we do implement a National healthcare system run by the Federal government. Do you think it should be done by approval of a Constitutional Amendment?
Since it will be the biggest thing the government does maybe short of running the Military which is authorized in the Constitution, I would expect that we take that route.
What say you?

 

[MarAzul]

Before that we had no sewage treatment plants and the entire country had about 2000 miles of paved road....horse urine and manure were deposited at your doorstop daily....the organization of infrastructure in our history is interesting...hence...income tax.

So it was a progressive move and you approve. He did it by amending the Constitution too. Amazing! Defined poorly as hell but still amazing..

 

[riverman]

For instants, if we do implement a National healthcare system run by the Federal government. Do you think it should be done by approval of a Constitutional Amendment?

I have no problem with this...Taiwan ran their system through pure sales tax...worked like a charm..you buy something the rcpt has a number...every Friday it's a national lottery for sales rcpts...you have expendable income and shop for anything, you contribute to national health care..on top of that for a family you had a flat fee of about 20 dollars a month to contribute and pharmacuticals and clinc visits would cost a copay of about 10 bucks a visit or prescription. I was in the hospital with a flesh killing bacteria under quarantine for two weeks...intensive fight to save my leg....with national healthcare my copay was 800 bucks for everything including 24 hour care and after they cured it. Would have to sell my house in the States to pay for that.

 

[MarAzul]

I have no problem with this

Fantastic! A proper process that we all can understand.

 

[riverman]

So it was a progressive move and you approve

sort of like septic tanks over outhouses.....progress...I don't see progress as a political entity though..I see it as purely accomplishment

 

[MarAzul]

progress as a political entity

Well I did not coin the label "Progressive". I think Wilson did but I am probably wrong. I know it came in to wide use at that time in history.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What say you?

When you decided you wanted to build a boat was the first call you made to your insurance company to see what kind of boat they wanted to insure?

When you researched designs did you only use designs by english speaking conservatives?

Boats, sails, rudders, anchors, according to my understanding of history these were invented by foreigners, and none of them were republicans.

You keep wanting to pound a political peg into a science hole.

There are no republican diseases and democrat diseases. There is cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Is anything being offered by the democrats or republicans directly addressing these? Treatment? Prevention? Are we having any kind of discussion about how to increase the life expectancy of the average american? That's healthcare. That is in our national interest.

How about this, lets say your doctor oversees the health of about 300 patients. Should your doctor receive a bonus if him or her lowers the rate of obesity, heart attacks and diabetes on average in their pool of patients or should they receive a bonus for not referring patients on to more services and specialists? Should doctors be rewarded for improving the health of their patients or for not costing the insurance companies money?

And as a nation are we discussing any of this?

 

[MarAzul]

Wow! I think we are much closer to agreement that you think.

When you decided you wanted to build a boat was the first call you made to your insurance company to see what kind of boat they wanted to insure?
>>> Nope What I designed was not any business of and Insurance company. Their business is to provide a service, If the can find a niche after something is created.

When you researched designs did you only use designs by english speaking conservatives?
Boats, sails, rudders, anchors, according to my understanding of history these were invented by foreigners, and none of them were republicans.

>>> Nothing about a boat is republican. But in any case, it was all original design work, the rudder, keel all new, original. I think you caught me once, communicating with and architect in
England via peer to peer about the design and doing Computer Flow analysis on it.

You keep wanting to pound a political peg into a science hole.

>>>Excuse me but I have no interest in this odd suggestion, nor do I understand why you think it?

There are no republican diseases and democrat diseases. There is cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Is anything being offered by the democrats or republicans directly addressing these? Treatment? Prevention? Are we having any kind of discussion about how to increase the life expectancy of the average american? That's healthcare. That is in our national interest.

>>> This is true, for sure.

How about this, lets say your doctor oversees the health of about 300 patients. Should your doctor receive a bonus if him or her lowers the rate of obesity, heart attacks and diabetes on average in their pool of patients or should they receive a bonus for not referring patients on to more services and specialists? Should doctors be rewarded for improving the health of their patients or for not costing the insurance companies money?

>>>Several interesting questions you raise. Not sure I want to try and answer them. I do know, I have no interest in having Congress answer these questions.

And as a nation are we discussing any of this?

No, we have not seen any discussions of these questions in Congress, at least I don't think we have. I sure don't think Congress is the right body for that discussion.


You failed to answer my question. Since I think Congress is way out of bounds now screwing around with the Pay side of healthcare, which ends up affecting alll of the above perhaps even unwittingly
I don't think it is right at all. They have screwed this up already beyond repair in some cases. And I think from what I have seen, they do not have the talent to fix it. They do not have a Humpty Dumpty repairman on hand.

Now, do you want them to design a National healthcare system? Shouldn't it be authorized in a Constitution Amendment? I should think it would be prudent to specify in the Amendment whom should do the design to achieve specific broad goals. Some how I do not think politicians should be designing any major system we all absolutely need. I know of no Republican or Democrat in Congress even close to meeting requirements needed to adequately preform the job. I think everyone should inform their representatives of this opinion.

Ps. The job of controlling the purse strings is task for Congress, not designing weapons system or Healthcare systems.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Wow! I think we are much closer to agreement that you think.



No, we have not seen any discussions of these questions in Congress, at least I don't think we have. I sure don't think Congress is the right body for that discussion.


You failed to answer my question. Since I think Congress is way out of bounds now screwing around with the Pay side of healthcare, which ends up affecting alll of the above perhaps even unwittingly
I don't think it is right at all. They have screwed this up already beyond repair in some cases. And I think from what I have seen, their do not have the talent to fix it. They do not have a Humpty Dumpty repairman on hand.

Now, do you want them to design a National healthcare system? Shouldn't it be authorized in a Constitution Amendment? I should think it would be prudent to specify in the Amendment whom should do the design to achieve specific broad goals. Some how I do not think politicians should be designing any major system we all absolutely need. I know of no Republican or Democrat in Congress even close to meeting requirements needed to adequately preform the job. I think everyone should inform their representatives of this opinion.

The Declaration of Independence states, "that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness; ..."

I would say that the life part is healthcare in the 21st century america. Shouldn't be too hard for some of those Princeton and Bob Jones people to add it to the Constitution.