The Raptors should be an example to us of how to build a better team

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BonesJones said:
They turned DeMar Derozen, Jonas Valancuinas, Terrence Ross, Jakob Poeltl, three late firsts and a 2nd into:

Kawhi Leonard, Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka. Pascal Siakam. Danny Green, Fred VanVleet, and Norman Powell.

Talk about upgrading assets. My goodness. They're a perfect example of how to build a contender by upgrading assets, drafting well, and developing well.
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And their old coach got swept the fuck out of the first round. Just like stotts would.
 
Strenuus said:
Wut? How are we going to game 7 against gsw in the semi finals? Lol.

Anf why the hell am I even entertaining this hypothetical?
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He was saying that without a flukey performance against the Nuggets that we would have been swept by them. I was disagreeing with that.
 
blazerkor said:
He was saying that without a flukey performance against the Nuggets that we would have been swept by them. I was disagreeing with that.
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No, that's not what I was saying at all.

"We wouldn't have made the WCF without a flukey 28 point comeback by end of the bench guys. We would've been swept out of the WCSF, just like Toronto was the year before. "

On the last night of the season we played end of the bench guys and got down 28 to Sacremento. If we lost, we would've been the 4 seed and gotten swept out of the WCSF, just like Toronto.

If Cleveland got the 3 seed last year instead of Philadelphia, Toronto would've make the ECF and gotten swept, just like us. They wouldn't have used that as an excuse to not get better.

The 2nd Round vs. WCF is irrelivant now in terms of evaluating this team moving forward, and what moves should be made.
 
lots being discussed here

but as far as the OP, I agree that Portland will have to take a risk(s), maybe a big one, in order to take the final steps to contention

can't be holding CJ untouchable when players like Paul George, Kawhi, and Jimmy Butler are available. Or AD. Not sure who the next big star is that will be available
 
BonesJones said:
What?

We would've taken Golden State to 7 games in the WCSF?

What?
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I thought you were talking about our path that we took to the WCF not that last game of the season, my bad. That being said there's a lot of what ifs in your hypothetical.
 
BonesJones said:
No, that's not what I was saying at all.

"We wouldn't have made the WCF without a flukey 28 point comeback by end of the bench guys. We would've been swept out of the WCSF, just like Toronto was the year before. "

On the last night of the season we played end of the bench guys and got down 28 to Sacremento. If we lost, we would've been the 4 seed and gotten swept out of the WCSF, just like Toronto.

If Cleveland got the 3 seed last year instead of Philadelphia, Toronto would've make the ECF and gotten swept, just like us. They wouldn't have used that as an excuse to not get better.

The 2nd Round vs. WCF is irrelivant now in terms of evaluating this team moving forward, and what moves should be made.
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Got it
 
blazerkor said:
I thought you were talking about our path that we took to the WCF not that last game of the season, my bad. That being said there's a lot of what ifs in your hypothetical.
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Theres literally no what ifs about it. That 28-point comeback saved us from losing in the 2nd round just like the Raptors did last year.

That 28-point comeback shouldnt be used as a reason to make moves. Essentially, making it past the 2nd round shouldnt affect what we do going forward.
 
BonesJones said:
Theres literally no what ifs about it. That 28-point comeback saved us from losing in the 2nd round just like the Raptors did last year.

That 28-point comeback shouldnt be used as a reason to make moves. Essentially, making it past the 2nd round shouldnt affect what we do going forward.
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I actually sort of disagree a bit. I think part of what we saw in the WCF’s was the Blazers getting to the WCF’s was their goal, they seemed pretty content while GS didnt. Also I think the Denver series took a ton out of Portland, Hood never really looked the same after he tweaked his knee, Kanter had the seperated shoulder, cheap shotted and further injured. Maybe they dont beat GS, but I think there may have been advantages to playing them in the 2nd round.
 
Will be interesting what this Raptors roster looks like in a couple months...
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I actually sort of disagree a bit. I think part of what we saw in the WCF’s was the Blazers getting to the WCF’s was their goal, they seemed pretty content while GS didnt. Also I think the Denver series took a ton out of Portland, Hood never really looked the same after he tweaked his knee, Kanter had the seperated shoulder, cheap shotted and further injured. Maybe they dont beat GS, but I think there may have been advantages to playing them in the 2nd round.
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We wouldnt have beaten them regardless, and in the end, nothing about whether or not we would've lost in 4 or 7 in the WCSF doesnt matter.

People act like making the WCF was some huge measuring stick for the team moving forward, but do many things had to go perfectly for us that it shouldnt be. We're not good enough to win a championship.
 
BonesJones said:
We wouldnt have beaten them regardless, and in the end, nothing about whether or not we would've lost in 4 or 7 in the WCSF doesnt matter.

People act like making the WCF was some huge measuring stick for the team moving forward, but do many things had to go perfectly for us that it shouldnt be. We're not good enough to win a championship.
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I dont know how you could say that. What went perfectly, our 2nd best player snapping his his leg? CJ being injured down the stretch? Kanter having his shoulder separated and playing with one arm?

Im not saying that the Blazers are good enough to win a championship. However this narrative that everything just went perfectly and the Sacrmento game saved their entire season, is leaving out a lot of things that happened. Its an 82 game season not a one game season. The season wasnt perfect by any stretch.

They honestly SHOULD have been up 3-1 on GS and choked it away, that wasnt a case of “great GS”, as much as the Blazers choking really hard.

Blazers may never make it to the WCF’s again.
 
BonesJones said:
Hell, even if they lose they shouldnt care. They would've never made the finals if they didnt trade for Kawhi.
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Ok but if they lose should that be a measuring stick for them? I mean the east isnt very good. If they go get swept then they didnt do anything more than the Blazers.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Ok but if they lose should that be a measuring stick for them? I mean the east isnt very good. If they go get swept then they didnt do anything more than the Blazers.
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I don't think you can say the east isn't very good anymore.

Philly?

Milwaukee?

Boston?

They have some very good teams in the east now.
 
BonesJones said:
We wouldnt have beaten them regardless, and in the end, nothing about whether or not we would've lost in 4 or 7 in the WCSF doesnt matter.

People act like making the WCF was some huge measuring stick for the team moving forward, but do many things had to go perfectly for us that it shouldnt be. We're not good enough to win a championship.
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Not much went perfect for us... We just ended up on the other side of the bracket from GS. It was bound to happen eventually.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Not much went perfect for us... We just ended up on the other side of the bracket from GS. It was bound to happen eventually.
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...how did being on the same side of the bracket matter last year? We got extremely lucky to get the 3 seed. And then extremely lucky with the way Denver shot the ball.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Ok but if they lose should that be a measuring stick for them? I mean the east isnt very good. If they go get swept then they didnt do anything more than the Blazers.
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Thats 100% false. The Blazers wouldnt have beaten Milwaukee. Maybe not even Philadelphia. Last years Toronto team certai ly wouldnt have. Toronto improced their team, and improved their chances at a championship by, ya kn now, making the Finals.

We need to do the same, and using a WCF that wouldnt have happened without Simons and Labissiere bringing us back from a 28-point deficit shouldnt be used as an excuse to be complacent.
 
BonesJones said:
Not Lillard, McCollum.
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Raptors traded their franchise GOAT in his prime for a rental.

They didn't trade the sidekick, they traded their main guy who was set to stay in Toronto the rest of his career.

Pissed off a huge part of their base.

A McCollum trade wouldnt be the same reaction. He isn't an all star. You can't trade him for a top 5 player in the league.

Its not the same parameters laid out in the original post if you are comparing Raptors and Blazers.

It would be trading Lillard right now for Anthony Davis and build around one year of Davis and CJ. Trade Nurk for a veteran PG.

Well, maybe a better comparison would be Durant but hes a FA.
 
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A couple of things came out of last season. Zach Collins grew and at worst case scenario he could be a 10/9/2 blocks guy and that is if he does not grow anymore and we do not slot plays for him. Turner is not a rotational player and we need to get rid of him and I am not opposed to using our pick for that because we do not need anymore developmental players right now. CJ is our wild card I think we need to trade him for a viable 3/4 threat not sure who is out there but putting Simons in his slot would not be a bad thing or Hood. Meyers has proved that he is now not a liability as long as he plays like he did in the playoffs but that is the only true unknown due to our depth at 5/4 trading him now I think would be a mistake with Nurk being out until at least the all star break. Aminu/Harkless are not starters never have been and that experiment is over if Aminu walks and Harkless gets bundled in a trade I will not shed one tear.
We have to build to beat GSW. CJ made Denver pay on double teaming Dame but was not savvy enough to do the same against GSW and at the end of the day that is who we need to beat to make the finals and that will be for years to come.
 
I stopped reading this thread when someone said Toronto has a very good chance of beating GSW.

It may or may not happen, but the clear favorite is GSW.
GSW has a very good chance of winning their 4th consecutive ring.
Everyone knew it all season.

There is a very good chance that once GSW wins that Leonard leaves in FA.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Raptors traded their franchise GOAT in his prime for a rental.

They didn't trade the sidekick, they traded their main guy who was set to stay in Toronto the rest of his career.

Pissed off a huge part of their base.

A McCollum trade wouldnt be the same reaction. He isn't an all star. You can't trade him for a top 5 player in the league.

Its not the same parameters laid out in the original post if you are comparing Raptors and Blazers.

It would be trading Lillard right now for Anthony Davis and build around one year of Davis and CJ. Trade Nurk for a veteran PG.

Well, maybe a better comparison would be Durant but hes a FA.
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Yes but FA's were not flocking to Toronto just to play with DeRozan, After this playoff run they will come for Lillard and Kahwai, CJ wont net us a top 5 but he will net us a top 10 at worst top 15 but I would only do it if it netted us a 3/4. Trading Nurk right now I am not sure how that would go since the earliest they could have him is by the All star break. Also we would be trading our 1st and second best player for a oft injured superstar for one year. I am pretty sure we would be in the same position only to have him gone and we are stuck with rebuilding around CJ. Kahwai is a FA this year he may stay with the Raptors especially with a good showing against GSW. I would go after him instead of Anthony Davis.
 
Natebishop3 said:
That may be so, and maybe we couldn't get Kawhi, but the risk that the Raptors took is really what I'm pointing to. Trading an established player who was happy in Toronto for a guy that very well might leave after this year (but probably not.)
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Takes two to make a trade though. Are you advocating we should have traded cj just to trade him, regardless of the return, to a team without kawhi talent?

I mean i think no would have made that trade too if it were available. Cj for kawhi?
But it wasnt. So not sure what you are saying we should do??

Toronto kinda got lucky in that kawhi demanded a trade. That doesnt happen, they dotn get him. So who should we talk to to demand a trade and go after Nd what assets do we give up to get him?
Remember the offer must be accepted by the other teams.
How much are you willing to give up for AD and will they take what you offer aNd if they do, how gutted is the roster after the trade?
 
H.C. said:
I stopped reading this thread when someone said Toronto has a very good chance of beating GSW.

It may or may not happen, but the clear favorite is GSW.
GSW has a very good chance of winning their 4th consecutive ring.
Everyone knew it all season.

There is a very good chance that once GSW wins that Leonard leaves in FA.
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They do have a very good chance of beating Golden State. 25%-40% is a very good chance.

The likelihood of Toronto beating Golden State is higher than Kawhi leaving.
 
Natebishop3 said:
A year ago they had the best record in the East. They had the coach of the year. They had one of the best backcourts in the league.

They were swept by the Cavs in the second round.

So what did they do? They fired their coach of the year. They took a massive risk and traded their All-Star guard for a guy who is going to be a free agent this summer. They shook things up.

They're now going to the NBA Finals and I think they have a very good chance to beat the Warriors.

They did the opposite of what this team continues to do, and they're reaping the rewards. But let's just climb right back onto that treadmill. Maybe things will be different next year. Maybe Terry will figure out how to beat the trap. Maybe we will learn how to defend the pick and roll. Maybe we will get a wing that doesn't completely suck. Maybe.... maybe....
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100% agree.
 
BonesJones said:
They do have a very good chance of beating Golden State. 25%-40% is a very good chance.

The likelihood of Toronto beating Golden State is higher than Kawhi leaving.
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I think vegas would disagree with you.

A very good chance is a very good bet.
25-40% chance of winning is not very good odds. Its not even a 50-50 chance.

Thats not a very good chance.

To me at least, to be a very good chance at winning it has to be 50-50 or better, no?
 
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