The Raptors should be an example to us of how to build a better team

[oldmangrouch]

1) So, you're going with Bitter Old Man?
2) We're trying, Jennifer
3) The Raptor have been at the top of the East for several years, and decided to take a big risk to put them over the top. That risk has yet to pay off. Yes, they made it to the finals, but it was always LBJ who was in their way, and he's gone from the east now. They either need to beat the Warriors OR have KL re-sign. If either happens, THEN yes, their risk payed off.
4) They Blazers also took a risk, expending resources to rent Hood. It payed off in that they went to the conference finals, way ahead of their 1st round ouster in the last 2 years.

1) I would rather be a bitter old man than someone who just gives up.
2) Sort of - not as hard as they could.
3) Enough with the LBJ crap. The Raps, Warriors, and Bucks have all made coaching/front office changes that helped push them to the top. IE, the opposite of the Blazers. LBJ is so dominant his team is wallowing in the lotto. Did he forget how to play, or was he hamstrung by the crappy coaching and front office in LA?
4) Hood was a low risk move by any definition. How can you remotely compare that to the KL trade?

 

[oldmangrouch]

Did the Raptors do that in isolation? No. They were good enough and had enough talent to make a deal with the Spurs on a disgruntled superstar. You don’t get the chance at making that trade without the first part.

And who is responsible for our not having those kind of trade assets? The GM who just got an extension.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Question: If the Raptors lose and Kawhi leaves, is it really better to go that route?

In the West there is no example yet that taking a big risk is better than trying to keep a core with continuity. Sure, I'd love to get one round further next year but if we're talking championship aa the ultimate goal if the Raptors lose they aren't really any closer than we were.

You mean like the Warriors when they fired a 50 win coach, traded Ellis (their CJ), and put together a roster plan that allowed them to sign KD? The Warriors didn't go from a team struggling to win 30 to a finals team without taking risks along the way.

 

[hoopsjock]

You mean like the Warriors when they fired a 50 win coach, traded Ellis (their CJ), and put together a roster plan that allowed them to sign KD? The Warriors didn't go from a team struggling to win 30 to a finals team without taking risks along the way.

Did you know that GS first tried to trade Steph Curry to Milwaukee for Bogut? The Bucks refused to do the deal unless Ellis was in it instead because they didn't like the medical reports on Steph's ankles. Plus the Warriors already had Klay (their Ellis replacement) on their roster so trading one of their 3 guards didn't leave a hole that it would with us.

 

[e_blazer]

And who is responsible for our not having those kind of trade assets? The GM who just got an extension.

We likely have the assets now. Just need the deal.

Do you guys ever stop being pissed off about the state of the Blazers?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

1) I would rather be a bitter old man than someone who just gives up.
2) Sort of - not as hard as they could.
3) Enough with the LBJ crap. The Raps, Warriors, and Bucks have all made coaching/front office changes that helped push them to the top. IE, the opposite of the Blazers. LBJ is so dominant his team is wallowing in the lotto. Did he forget how to play, or was he hamstrung by the crappy coaching and front office in LA?
4) Hood was a low risk move by any definition. How can you remotely compare that to the KL trade?

1) Congrats, you've achieved bitter old man status long ago.
2) There is literally no way you, or anyone here, could know this.
3) LBJ misses the playoffs 1 year, and now he sucks? Weird.
4) It was easy.

 

[oldmangrouch]

1) Congrats, you've achieve bitter old man status long ago.
2) There is literally no way you, or anyone here, could know this.
3) LBJ misses the playoffs 1 year, and now he sucks? Weird.
4) It was easy.

No offense, but you totally missed the point of #3. I was making the opposite point - it wasn't LBJ, it was the Laker brain trust.

As for your first point - you better believe it - and get off my lawn!

 

[CupWizier]

And who is responsible for our not having those kind of trade assets? The GM who just got an extension.

Spurs weren't willing to deal with a western team. Unless you were willing to do a totally lopsided deal for Toronto, then it's a moot point. The GM who just got an extension just put together a team that made it to the WCF without one of the main players.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I find it amusing that the Blazers' WCF appearance is being written off by some as a bracket-based fluke, but the Raptors reaching the finals by virtue of being in a different conference than the warriors doesn't receive the same treatment.

 

[Natebishop3]

I find it amusing that the Blazers' WCF appearance is being written off by some as a bracket-based fluke, but the Raptors reaching the finals by virtue of being in a different conference than the warriors doesn't receive the same treatment.

I maintain that the Raptors path to the Finals was much much harder than our path to the WCF.

 

[hoopsjock]

I find it amusing that the Blazers' WCF appearance is being written off by some as a bracket-based fluke, but the Raptors reaching the finals by virtue of being in a different conference than the warriors doesn't receive the same treatment.

Exactly, that was my point that if the Raptors lose to the Warriors did they really accomplish anything we didn't other than being in the East?

 

[Natebishop3]

Do you guys ever stop being pissed off about the state of the Blazers?

Why do you think we're pissed off? I don't think creating a thread about following another team's model is a sign of anger.

 

[e_blazer]

Why do you think we're pissed off? I don't think creating a thread about following another team's model is a sign of anger.

I wasn't referring to you. I was responding to OMG.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I maintain that the Raptors path to the Finals was much much harder than our path to the WCF.

All speculation though.

 

[e_blazer]

All speculation though.

OKC beat the Bucks twice this season. The Nuggets lost to them twice.
Both OKC and the Nuggets split with the Raptors this year.

The Blazers split with both the Raptors and the Bucks.

 

[hoopsjock]

OKC beat the Bucks twice this season. The Nuggets lost to them twice.
Both OKC and the Nuggets split with the Raptors this year.

The Blazers split with both the Raptors and the Bucks.

We were 4-0 against the Magic and 76ers (destroyed them both times) who the Raptors played in the 1st 2 rounds.
We were 1-1 against the Bucks.

 

[wizenheimer]

Who gives a fuck about Crabbe and whether PA was the final decision maker. It was several years ago and guys like you will be bringing this up again and again probably 20 years later. It was done, it's over and the team made it to the WCF. This is a prime time for "GET OVER IT".

pound sand

I didn't bring Crabbe up in this thread...somebody else did and I responded to what he wrote

 

[twobullz]

I maintain that the Raptors path to the Finals was much much harder than our path to the WCF.

I would say the East is much weaker. The fact the Blazers were 29-23 against the west and 24-6 against the east just shows how weak the east is. So I don't think anyone had a easier path in the east then the west.

 

[wizenheimer]

Question: If the Raptors lose and Kawhi leaves, is it really better to go that route?

In the West there is no example yet that taking a big risk is better than trying to keep a core with continuity. Sure, I'd love to get one round further next year but if we're talking championship as the ultimate goal if the Raptors lose they aren't really any closer than we were.

Edit: I'm not saying we shouldn't take risks, just that it's hard to see that it is necessarily better than the path we're currently on.

well, east or not the Raptors are in the finals and are 4 wins away from a championship. Blazers were 8 wins away, but obviously, they were not in the class of the Warriors

'risks' are kind of hard to define. I'd suggest that the Raptors didn't really take that big a risk because it was rather obvious the Derozan/Lowry pairing had topped out. No upside. It could be argued all they really risked was their own personal treadmill. Maybe Derozan could have fetched a better long-term return...maybe not. To the Raptors credit, they cut bait and tried another tack...and they're in the finals

If Kawhi leaves? it's a case of nothing ventured, nothing gained. There's not a big downside there IMO

How about at least balancing that equation for Portland. It seems you're assuming that Portland isn't on some quicksand of their own. Where will the Blazers be if Hood, Kanter, Aminu, and Curry leave? I think it could be argued that Portland might not have beat OKC without Kanter, and might not have beat Denver without Hood. If those 4 players all leave, the Blazers are taking a step back and the plateau of the WCF will be above their heads on the ladder again.

In other words, both the Toronto model and the Portland model have weaknesses

as for risk and Portland....I'd say since Whitsitt, the Blazers may have been one of the most risk-averse teams in the league. I'm inclined to say the last big risk the Blazers took was trading for Scottie Pippen. But even though Portland traded 5 players, IIRC, none of them were significant losses. Maybe the Blazers took a sizable risk trading Gerald Wallace for a draft pick that had a decent chance of not being conveyed...and that resulted in Lillard. That means Portland's best payoff in 2 decades came from taking by far the biggest risk they've taken. That says something

and I think that needs to be factored against 20 years of relatively risk free management that has resulted in 4 playoff series wins. That's not a good payoff at all, especially considering that they might be at 0 series wins but for the risk they took in the Wallace trade

 

[hoopsjock]

well, east or not the Raptors are in the finals and are 4 wins away from a championship. Blazers were 8 wins away, but obviously, they were not in the class of the Warriors

'risks' are kind of hard to define. I'd suggest that the Raptors didn't really take that big a risk because it was rather obvious the Derozan/Lowry pairing had topped out. No upside. It could be argued all they really risked was their own personal treadmill. Maybe Derozan could have fetched a better long-term return...maybe not. To the Raptors credit, they cut bait and tried another tack...and they're in the finals

If Kawhi leaves? it's a case of nothing ventured, nothing gained. There's not a big downside there IMO

How about at least balancing that equation for Portland. It seems you're assuming that Portland isn't on some quicksand of their own. Where will the Blazers be if Hood, Kanter, Aminu, and Curry leave? I think it could be argued that Portland might not have beat OKC without Kanter, and might not have beat Denver without Hood. If those 4 players all leave, the Blazers are taking a step back and the plateau of the WCF will be above their heads on the ladder again.

In other words, both the Toronto model and the Portland model have weaknesses

as for risk and Portland....I'd say since Whitsitt, the Blazers may have been one of the most risk-averse teams in the league. I'm inclined to say the last big risk the Blazers took was trading for Scottie Pippen. But even though Portland traded 5 players, IIRC, none of them were significant losses. Maybe the Blazers took a sizable risk trading Gerald Wallace for a draft pick that had a decent chance of not being conveyed...and that resulted in Lillard. That means Portland's best payoff in 2 decades came from taking by far the biggest risk they've taken. That says something

and I think that needs to be factored against 20 years of relatively risk free management that has resulted in 4 playoff series wins. That's not a good payoff at all, especially considering that they might be at 0 series wins but for the risk they took in the Wallace trade

If Kawhi leaves the Raptors they are way, way, way worse off than the Blazers are if Hood, Kanter, Aminu, and Curry all leave.

 

[riverman]

I'm happy to see the Raptors finally make the big dance...I like their team...the Bucks and Raps are probably my favorite eastern conf franchises and the Bucks have been there like the Blazers way....long, long ago

 

[Natebishop3]

I would say the East is much weaker. The fact the Blazers were 29-23 against the west and 24-6 against the east just shows how weak the east is. So I don't think anyone had a easier path in the east then the west.

You guys keep saying that, but they still have to go through teams like Boston, Philly, and Milwaukee.

 

[riverman]

You guys keep saying that, but they still have to go through teams like Boston, Philly, and Milwaukee.

Look at team USA and see how many members are from each conference...the west is stacked and it's not even close now that Lebron is gone..Butler and Leonard will probably be in the west next season as well. I think the talent pool is way deeper in the west...by a wide margin

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You guys keep saying that, but they still have to go through teams like Boston, Philly, and Milwaukee.

In my opinion, OKC is about as good as Boston maybe slightly worse. Denvers about = too Milwaukee and Philly is not put together like an actual basketball team, lots of talent but they don't fit and in a series vs just about any good team they have a lot of weaknesses that can be keyed on. Its just my opinion, I respect yours, but its kind of just speculation on both of our parts.

Im ok with the basic premise that the Blazers like Toronto should be open to and pursue a big trade to land a “superstar”, like AD is the one that comes up, no one but Dame should really be off the table.

 

[hoopsjock]

You guys keep saying that, but they still have to go through teams like Boston, Philly, and Milwaukee.

Yeah, it would really suck to have to get matched up against a team like the Magic or the Nets in the 1st round.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Yeah, it would really suck to have to get matched up against a team like the Magic or the Nets in the 1st round.

Or Indy w/o Olidipo, or Detroit... I think theres a decent argument that top 4 in the east this year were much closer to the top 4 in the west, then years past, but I don't know, I think the Blazers would have at least 50/50 shots to take any of em...

 

[twobullz]

You guys keep saying that, but they still have to go through teams like Boston, Philly, and Milwaukee.

Milwaukie was 40-12 against the east and 20-10 against the west, Boston was 35-17 against the east and 12-16 against the west, Philly was 31-21 against the east and 20-10 against the west. They would all be lower seeds then the Blazers if they played in the west and had to play the west teams more. If I count right only 4 East teams went over 500 against the west. 9 West teams were over 500 against the east.

 

[illmatic99]

Raptors are Portland East. I'm all aboard their bandwagon for the finals.

 

[CupWizier]

Milwaukie was 40-12 against the east and 20-10 against the west, Boston was 35-17 against the east and 12-16 against the west, Philly was 31-21 against the east and 20-10 against the west. They would all be lower seeds then the Blazers if they played in the west and had to play the west teams more. If I count right only 4 East teams went over 500 against the west. 9 West teams were over 500 against the east.

Good data and it always amazes me when a "fan" of the team continuously discounts our teams accomplishments and praises other teams for doing the same and even less. We have several; that seem to fit that model.

 

[HailBlazers]

Good data and it always amazes me when a "fan" of the team continuously discounts our teams accomplishments and praises other teams for doing the same and even less. We have several; that seem to fit that model.

I'd personally rather hear criticism of the team and banter thereof than criticism of others flavor of fandom. If they weren't 'fans' they wouldn't be here wasting their time discussing all things Blazer's.