OT The Shooting of Patrick Lyoya

[Chris Craig]

But like.... I feel like that's a pretty big leap to fear that the guy is going to shoot you while you're in the car to the guy actually shooting you because you wrestled with him for his weapon.

It would be like me being afraid that a Bengal Tiger is going to eat me.... so I climb into the Tiger's cage and wrestle with it.

No man, no. Because of systemic racism, black people are afraid when they get pulled over. That fear can override logic, cause a flight or fight response, lead to bad choices being made, choices that might not be made under normal circumstances.

It's not a big leap at all and that officer holding him down by his neck with one hand while shooting him in the head with the other only justifies that fear.

 

[Chris Craig]

The guy literally took the officer’s only means non-lethal defense and tried to use it on him. What happens if the guy successfully tazes the officer? Then what? Nobody knows the answer, that’s why dude got shot.

And it didn't work. He was on top of the guy. He had him pinned. I guarantee Lyoya was at least if not more afraid for his life than that officer was.

 

[Natebishop3]

No man, no. Because of systemic racism, black people are afraid when they get pulled over. That fear can override logic, cause a flight or fight response, lead to bad choices being made, choices that might not be made under normal circumstances.

It's not a big leap at all and that officer holding him down by his neck with one hand while shooting him in the head with the other only justifies that fear.

Well, here's the thing.... as shown above, you have less than a .5% chance of being shot by a police officer. It's not even that high. It's 0.0014%

I would assume that the chances of you being shot by a police officer increases drastically if you
Get out of the car
Run from the police
Wrestle with a police officer
Try to take his weapon.

I would think that as you progressively escalate the situation, the chances of you being shot also increases.

TV and the internet have created this false sense that people are shot by the police all the time. It's simply not true. So while they might have a higher chance of being wrongfully arrested, or wrongfully pulled over, etc, they still have a very very very low chance of being shot. ESPECIALLY if they follow all the rules when they're pulled over.

 

[Chris Craig]

Well, here's the thing.... as shown above, you have less than a .5% chance of being shot by a police officer. It's not even that high. It's 0.0014%

I would assume that the chances of you being shot by a police officer increases drastically if you
Get out of the car
Run from the police
Wrestle with a police officer
Try to take his weapon.

I would think that as you progressively escalate the situation, the chances of you being shot also increases.

TV and the internet have created this false sense that people are shot by the police all the time. It's simply not true. So while they might have a higher chance of being wrongfully arrested, or wrongfully pulled over, etc, they still have a very very very low chance of being shot. ESPECIALLY if they follow all the rules when they're pulled over.

1,593 black people have been shot and killed by police since 2015. That's 227 a year. You can percentile it all you want, but black people are killed by police at twice the rate white people are. There is systemic racism. That systemic racism has conditioned black people to fear police because they could be one of those 227 a year. And again, that fear can override logic which can lead to bad choices being made.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Then again, we need better cops and better trained cops. That takes more money.

I agree - but it needs to be linked to better screening of applicants and stronger penalties for cops who go rogue.

 

[oldmangrouch]

And it didn't work. He was on top of the guy. He had him pinned. I guarantee Lyoya was at least if not more afraid for his life than that officer was.

If the cop was acting out of reasonable fear of his safety, he wouldn't have turned off his body cam. Turning off the body cam before shooting someone is powerful evidence of premeditation!

 

[Natebishop3]

1,593 black people have been shot and killed by police since 2015. That's 227 a year. You can percentile it all you want, but black people are killed by police at twice the rate white people are. There is systemic racism. That systemic racism has conditioned black people to fear police because they could be one of those 227 a year. And again, that fear can override logic which can lead to bad choices being made.

I mean.... dude.... that's even more absurd.

227 people a year.......

There's 332,915,073 people in the US.
46.8 million black people in the United States.
696,644 cops.

It's like being afraid you're going to die in a plane crash. Sure, it's possible, but highly highly highly unlikely. I'm not saying there isn't systemic racism. I'm not saying that they don't have a valid reason to be wary of the police. But running from the police, fighting with them, etc is just going to make it so much worse.

 

[Chris Craig]

If the cop was acting out of reasonable fear of his safety, he wouldn't have turned off his body cam. Turning off the body cam before shooting someone is powerful evidence of premeditation!

No shit. So is holding the dude by his neck and executing him. You could see when he turned and saw the other person filming he knew he was busted.

 

[Natebishop3]

No shit. So is holding the dude by his neck and executing him. You could see when he turned and saw the other person filming he knew he was busted.

Yeah, just to be clear. This guy clearly executed that guy. 100% needs to be in jail.

 

[crandc]

1,593 black people have been shot and killed by police since 2015. That's 227 a year. You can percentile it all you want, but black people are killed by police at twice the rate white people are. There is systemic racism. That systemic racism has conditioned black people to fear police because they could be one of those 227 a year. And again, that fear can override logic which can lead to bad choices being made.

You can't teach that in Florida, Alabama, Tennessee or other states

 

[calvin natt]

Let's compare actual licensed teachers. Lumping "coaches" in is really lowering the bar. Adult volunteers who are put in a position of authority over kids is like a neon sign requesting perverts to apply.

I'm a coach, so I'm certainly not saying all coaches are perverts. The vast majority aren't. Most are absolutely fantastic people. But the barrier to entry is low for a pervert and the potential to find an opportunity to exploit is significant.

I'm very careful to make sure I get to know the coaches who work with my daughters, and have had that discussion with all of my daughters.

I coach a ton of my kids teams. Three boys, three years apart each, I feel like I’ve been coaching longer than Popovich. Not to mention before kids coaching HS and college. I’ve never coached without a background check, that’s pretty standard right? I hope. Doesn’t mean that there aren’t people who are animals and haven’t got a record of course. But still, it should be difficult to coach a team if you are a monster with a history at least.

 

[Chris Craig]

Let's compare actual licensed teachers. Lumping "coaches" in is really lowering the bar. Adult volunteers who are put in a position of authority over kids is like a neon sign requesting perverts to apply.

I'm a coach, so I'm certainly not saying all coaches are perverts. The vast majority aren't. Most are absolutely fantastic people. But the barrier to entry is low for a pervert and the potential to find an opportunity to exploit is significant.

I'm very careful to make sure I get to know the coaches who work with my daughters, and have had that discussion with all of my daughters.

Why are we comparing at all? This thread is about a cop who executed a black dude, not about teachers.

 

[Natebishop3]

I just wonder if we should be treating situations like this the same way that we treat high speed car chases.

Is it worth it to chase someone and have it end in a physical confrontation?

But on the flip side, do we potentially want to allow dangerous criminals to escape?

 

[Chris Craig]

I just wonder if we should be treating situations like this the same way that we treat high speed car chases.

Is it worth it to chase someone and have it end in a physical confrontation?

But on the flip side, do we potentially want to allow dangerous criminals to escape?

I would have understood pulling the gun, stepping back to create space and telling him to stay down, and call for backup, then if he came at him, then shoot. Or if the guy gets up and runs again, call backup and continue pursuit.

 

[Natebishop3]

I would have understood pulling the gun, stepping back to create space and telling him to stay down, and call for backup, then if he came at him, then shoot. Or if the guy gets up and runs again, call backup and continue pursuit.

I just wonder how far off we are from police having drones that they can deploy and instead of chasing, just deploy a drone to follow a suspect that's attempting to flee on foot.

Or hit em with a tracker.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I coach a ton of my kids teams. Three boys, three years apart each, I feel like I’ve been coaching longer than Popovich. Not to mention before kids coaching HS and college. I’ve never coached without a background check, that’s pretty standard right? I hope. Doesn’t mean that there aren’t people who are animals and haven’t got a record of course. But still, it should be difficult to coach a team if you are a monster with a history at least.

Yeah, and that's where I've seen the statistics which are not very encouraging. Something like 2% of people who have molested somebody have a record.

Stay vigilant.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I just wonder if we should be treating situations like this the same way that we treat high speed car chases.

Is it worth it to chase someone and have it end in a physical confrontation?

But on the flip side, do we potentially want to allow dangerous criminals to escape?

Yes. 100% better to let criminals escape than kill an innocent or mentally ill person who is not a threat.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[oldmangrouch]

SMH. Now there's a great look for the cops. I can just hear him screaming "no fat chicks!"

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

SMH. Now there's a great look for the cops. I can just hear him screaming "no fat chicks!"

We do not know the pronouns of the person who was punched.