The super Melo to Portland thread + The Big Blockbuster

[BBert]

So just a thought, but extending Pats deadline enabled Neil to make this deal and have time to complete the follow up deal. If follow up deal doesn't happen then the Blazers still have a bbackup SG yeah I know Pat is awful in SL but he looks competent in regular season systematic play.

Yeah, when they extended Pat's deadline it was clearly a "deal coming soon" moment. I'm OK keeping, or trading, Pat. Hopefully the trade exception can be used to improve the position. If not, Pat and Jake to the rescue!

 

[BBert]

It's possible. I think something is going on behind the scenes. I'm still holding out hope that it's Kevin Love.

I'd love that.

 

[BBert]

I've been saying for months that Pat could grow into a much cheaper Crabbe replacement. He's basically on the same career arc. Crabbe saw a big increase in his role in his third season. This will be Pat's third season.

I'm not concerned with his summer league performance. He was forced to play out of position at PG in an unstructured environment. Pat is more of a system player. He does better in a structured setting surrounded by good players. He knows his role in that system and won't try to force things.

Worst case, he's a tradeable piece with a non-guaranteed contract.

BNM

Exactly

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'll need a $1 per post deletion fee paid in advance and I'll throw in the thread locking for free.

Hurry, limited time offer!

Sorry, too late. That limited time offer has expired. I said to lock the thread until a trade actually happened. Well, one has happened. You snooze, you lose.

BNM

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Sorry, too late. That limited time offer has expired. I said to lock the thread until a trade actually happened. Well, one has happened. You snooze, you lose.

BNM

Then I'll need $100 to unban your account.

 

[e_blazer]

I kinda don't think the Cavs want to give up Love to get Melo as that's, at best, a lateral move (in my opinion, it actually makes the Cavs worse). But maybe James just wants to get another friend in the boat.

Yeah, but Melo and Love are kind of redundant and it still leaves them with Irving to trade for another quality player or two.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If Gordon is so shitty, how did he win 6th man of the year?

Counting stats. He averaged 16ppg off the bench, but used 14.5 possessions to do it--TS% 55.7, usage rate 22.1. By contrast, Crabbe's TS% is over 60%, but his usage was only 14.9.

Basically, Gordon's aggressive and willing to shoot all the time, whereas Crabbe isn't. It's debatable how much Crabbe's efficiency would have suffered if he'd actually been willing to take the third-scorer mantle that was his for the taking. Honestly, if he'd been more aggressive offensively, I doubt he'd have been moved.

 

[Boob-No-More]

How is Gordon an upgrade over Crabbe? He shoots 40% FGs, and 37% 3s, and brings nothing else to the table except for being injury prone.

He creates for himself and for others and isn't afraid to take a big shot. He averaged 16.2 ppg coming off the bench, compared to 10.7 ppg for Crabbe. He won Sixth Man of the Year. Crabbe didn't get a single vote.

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

Counting stats. He averaged 16ppg off the bench, but used 14.5 possessions to do it--TS% 55.7, usage rate 22.1. By contrast, Crabbe's TS% is over 60%, but his usage was only 14.9.

Basically, Gordon's aggressive and willing to shoot all the time, whereas Crabbe isn't. It's debatable how much Crabbe's efficiency would have suffered if he'd actually been willing to take the third-scorer mantle that was his for the taking. Honestly, if he'd been more aggressive offensively, I doubt he'd have been moved.

But that's one of his biggest problems.... he's not aggressive. He's inconsistent.

 

[Chris Craig]

Why isnt McCollums brother Errick in the NBA

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But that's one of his biggest problems.... he's not aggressive. He's inconsistent.

I'm not arguing in favor of Crabbe at all, just answering the question about Gordon.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Counting stats. He averaged 16ppg off the bench, but used 14.5 possessions to do it--TS% 55.7, usage rate 22.1. By contrast, Crabbe's TS% is over 60%, but his usage was only 14.9.

Basically, Gordon's aggressive and willing to shoot all the time, whereas Crabbe isn't. It's debatable how much Crabbe's efficiency would have suffered if he'd actually been willing to take the third-scorer mantle that was his for the taking. Honestly, if he'd been more aggressive offensively, I doubt he'd have been moved.

Gordon's AST% was also over 2x Crabbe's. He's better at creating for himself, and others.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Gordon's AST% was also over 2x Crabbe's. He's better at creating for himself, and others.

BNM

'Tis true. Crabbe also had a better TRB%, STL%, TOV%, WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP.

But yes, Gordon is definitely more aggressive, a better ball-handler, and a better distributor. In fact, I would probably contend that his skill-set is a better fit for our 3rd guard spot than Crabbe's is. But the majority of the numbers are actually in Crabbe's favor, and @BonesJones' perspective is absolutely understandable and not without merit.

 

[Natebishop3]

Can this trade happen so we can stop talkign about it?

 

[Boob-No-More]

'Tis true. Crabbe also had a better TRB%, STL%, TOV%, WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP.

But yes, Gordon is definitely more aggressive, a better ball-handler, and a better distributor. In fact, I would probably contend that his skill-set is a better fit for our 3rd guard spot than Crabbe's is. But the majority of the numbers are actually in Crabbe's favor, and @BonesJones' perspective is absolutely understandable and not without merit.

And yet Gordon had a higher PER, which is basically an accumulation of all those stats. Crabbe was barely better in most of those stats, where the areas where Gordon is superior, he is significantly better. In no case did Crabbe do anything twice as well as Gordon.

Crabbe relies on others to create opportunities for him. Gordon creates opportunities for himself and others. I'd definitely take the latter over the former.

One of the reasons we went out and got Turner was to give us a second ball handler when one of Dame or C.J. was out of the game. Crabbe certainly couldn't handle that duty. The problem is Turner can't shoot. So, he's a poor fit in Stott's system. Gordon gives is both scoring and ball handling/distribution in a single player. That makes him a much better 3rd guard than either Crabbe or Turner.

BNM

 

[H.C.]

Can this trade happen so we can stop talkign about it?

bump

 

[Scalma]

Oh. Hell. No. You don't get to praise crabbe now. Naw.

 

[Strenuus]

'Tis true. Crabbe also had a better TRB%, STL%, TOV%, WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP.

But yes, Gordon is definitely more aggressive, a better ball-handler, and a better distributor. In fact, I would probably contend that his skill-set is a better fit for our 3rd guard spot than Crabbe's is. But the majority of the numbers are actually in Crabbe's favor, and @BonesJones' perspective is absolutely understandable and not without merit.

PtldMediatingPlatypus needs to be your name.

 

[BonesJones]

Oh. Hell. No. You don't get to praise crabbe now. Naw.

I'm not praising Crabbe, I just think Gordon is crap as well.

 

[Scalma]

I'm not praising Crabbe, I just think Gordon is crap as well.

Then why'd you want him on the team

 

[H.C.]

I'm not praising Crabbe, I just think Gordon is crap as well.

IMO Gordon = Crawful.
Can Portland pass on Crabbe, Anderson, and Gordon? That would be my ideal scenario.

 

[Reep]

quoting Ric Bucher(!!) and it completely shook my inner Clipper world: "...I'd argue Clippers view Gordon as the next (healthy) Brandon Roy..."

Whoa. Stop the presses. Are we undervaluing Eric Gordon? Is that possible? Is Eric Gordon headed for that level of stardom? Can the new Eric Gordon be the old Brandon Roy?

https://www.clipsnation.com/2011/12/7/2618459/can-the-new-eric-gordon-become-the-old-brandon-roy

I can remember people comparing young Gordon to Roy. They also had some nice matchups. Gordon was never Roy, but he is more Roy than he is Crabbe.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

And yet Gordon had a higher PER, which is basically an accumulation of all those stats. Crabbe was barely better in most of those stats, where the areas where Gordon is superior, he is significantly better. In no case did Crabbe do anything twice as well as Gordon.

Don't be disingenuous. You know as well as I that PER is dependent on usage. And you also know that WS, BPM and VORP holistic stats like PER rather than contributory stats like the others.

C'mon, you're better than that.

 

[Boob-No-More]

One more reason, I'm thinking it may end up being Gordon and Ariza rather than Anderson - Luc Mbah a Moute.

I think Morely's original plan was to move Anderson and start Melo at the 4 with Ariza at the 3. Once it was clear no one wanted Anderson and his contract, he went out last week and signed Mbah a Moute as an Ariza replacement.

So, now I think his Plan B is to start Melo at the 4 next to Mbah a Moute at the 3. He will use Anderson to replace Gordon's scoring off the bench. Melo can also slide to the 3 when Anderson comes in at the 4.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Don't be disingenuous. You know as well as I that PER is dependent on usage. And you also know that WS, BPM and VORP holistic stats like PER rather than contributory stats like the others.

C'mon, you're better than that.

Yes, I am...

and Gordon is better than Crabbe.

BNM

 

[Schilly]

I'm not praising Crabbe, I just think Gordon is crap as well.

Dude you think every NBA player is crap so the whole credibility thing is kinda in question.

 

[Reep]

And we are still waiting for the 3:45pm announcement right? That was separate from the Crabbe trade I believe.

 

[BBert]

IMO Gordon = Crawful.
Can Portland pass on Crabbe, Anderson, and Gordon? That would be my ideal scenario.

Oh man I hated Crawchuck.

 

[Boob-No-More]

IMO Gordon = Crawful.
Can Portland pass on Crabbe, Anderson, and Gordon? That would be my ideal scenario.

So, what do you want Neil to do with that $12.9 trade exception? Would you prefer he just let it expire, or should he use it on a player/players that could make the team better? If so, who?

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

Oh man I hated Crawchuck.

People hate Crawford because he was put in a position that was never going to work out.

McMillan tried to make him into Brandon Roy 2.0 and that's not who he is.