The Tangled Web

[e_blazer]

Memos released by WikiLeaks reveal a tangled web of payments to the Clinton Foundation as well as personally to Bill Clinton. Given the access that some of the donors were granted to then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, I have little doubt that this mess will be the focus of the Republicans' investigations in trying to make her life a living hell once she's elected.

http://time.com/4546768/bill-clinton-inc-memo-reveals-tangled-business-charitable-ties/

 

[Natebishop3]

So fucking dirty. I'm not sure what's worse. Corrupt and a criminal, or a loud mouth jerk that would be publicly embarrassing.

 

[barfo]

It looks like a good target. Of course, the republicans would make one up if they didn't have one, so it doesn't really matter much.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

It looks like a good target. Of course, the republicans would make one up if they didn't have one, so it doesn't really matter much.

barfo

So do you really think that Hillary has done nothing wrong? Nothing at all? Totally innocent of any wrong doing?

 

[barfo]

So do you really think that Hillary has done nothing wrong? Nothing at all? Totally innocent of any wrong doing?

Nope, that's not what I was saying. I was saying the Republicans would have hearings, whether or not she's done anything wrong.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Nope, that's not what I was saying. I was saying the Republicans would have hearings, whether or not she's done anything wrong.

barfo

Well, that's a given. The Republicans are a fucking joke. But I'm curious if you think she's innocent.

 

[barfo]

I don't know. She's certainly not innocent in a broader sense of the word. Whether she's guilty of any crimes, it's not clear. Republicans have been trying to pin something on her for 20+ years now. They haven't succeeded. Maybe she's guilty and they are incompetent, maybe she's innocent and they are incompetent, maybe she's just very tricky and slippery and they are incompetent. It seems like after screaming for 20 years that she's guilty, she's guilty, and spending so much money investigating, there would be a little more to show for it, don't you think?

Are you familiar with the story of the boy who cried "Lock her up"? Eventually the villagers get tired of hearing it and the boy gets eaten by Hillary. Or something like that.

barfo

 

[julius]

I don't know. She's certainly not innocent in a broader sense of the word. Whether she's guilty of any crimes, it's not clear. Republicans have been trying to pin something on her for 20+ years now. They haven't succeeded. Maybe she's guilty and they are incompetent, maybe she's innocent and they are incompetent, maybe she's just very tricky and slippery and they are incompetent. It seems like after screaming for 20 years that she's guilty, she's guilty, and spending so much money investigating, there would be a little more to show for it, don't you think?

Are you familiar with the story of the boy who cried "Lock her up"? Eventually the villagers get tired of hearing it and the boy gets eaten by Hillary. Or something like that.

barfo

that's my belief too. It's not too difficult to find dirt on someone, but that could just be from gardening and not from burying Vince Foster in the woods. And it shouldn't be that hard to decipher between the two. But if you keep bringing it up, before too long people will grow tired of it and just start believing it as the gospel.

Since the Republicans/Conservatives have been trying to pin something...ANYTHING...on her for 25 years now, you'd think they'd have more than the small potatoes they always get.


Just wait 5 minutes and they'll have another smoking gun proving she's behind everything evil.

 

[blue32]

Oh she's guilty. But she's been in politics her entire life. She knows the inner workings, tips, and tricks to never be directly responsible for anything involving shady activity.

You could say that shes as crafty as a mob boss.

 

[barfo]

Oh she's guilty. But she's been in politics her entire life. She knows the inner workings, tips, and tricks to never be directly responsible for anything involving shady activity.

You could say that shes as crafty as a mob boss.

You could say that. But you couldn't prove it.

Funny thing is, lots of career politicians have been busted for various things, some of them are in jail right now. None of them got the scrutiny that Hillary has.

But not Hillary. Why? Is she smarter than all the rest, or less guilty?

barfo

 

[e_blazer]

But not Hillary. Why? Is she smarter than all the rest, or less guilty?

barfo

Or more protected by her party, which just happens to control the Justice Department?

 

[barfo]

Or more protected by her party, which just happens to control the Justice Department?

So you think she's so loved that everyone in the justice department is willing to look the other way?

Comey is a republican... why did he go along with this supposed massive coverup? His job is protected, he's got a ten-year term.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

You could say that. But you couldn't prove it.

Funny thing is, lots of career politicians have been busted for various things, some of them are in jail right now. None of them got the scrutiny that Hillary has.

But not Hillary. Why? Is she smarter than all the rest, or less guilty?

barfo

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. It's a duck.

None of you apologists can explain why she's been the subject of criminal investigation throughout her career while lots of career politicians, almost all of them, are not considered criminals.

 

[e_blazer]

So you think she's so loved that everyone in the justice department is willing to look the other way?

Comey is a republican... why did he go along with this supposed massive coverup? His job is protected, he's got a ten-year term.

barfo

Do I think Hillary is so loved in DC that people would go along with a cover up? No, I doubt seriously that Hillary is loved by those who know her best. Do I think that the Democratic Party, and by extension President Obama (as head of his party) and his appointed Attorney General had an interest in seeing to it that the party's presumptive nominee would not be indicted and throw the race into chaos just before the convention? Yeah. Do I think that pressure could be brought to bear on Comey behind the scenes? Without doubt. Is there any proof for any of that? Not that I'm aware, and I'm sure that any effort to dig into this will not be productive.

Comey was in an impossibly tough position from the start. As head of the FBI he was charged with conducting an investigation against one of the highest of high profile people in the world. He no doubt wanted that investigation to appear apolitical, yet knew that as a Republican there would be suspicion of his motives if he pushed for charges to be brought. I would think that the worst possible outcome for him, personally, would have been to have pushed for charges, have Hillary pushed out of her position to be the candidate, and end up having the case fall apart in court and her get acquitted. Who can blame him for dodging that bullet if he thought the case would be tough to win?

As I understand the reasoning he presented in not recommending that the Justice Department pursue and indictment, he felt that while there was evidence that Hillary and her colleagues were "extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information", they didn't find proof that they intended to violate the law. The problem with that, of course, is that the law doesn't contain any requirement of demonstrating intent and other people have been prosecuted and convicted for offenses of exposing classified materials when there was no direct intent to do so.

I have a lot of questions that I would love to have seen asked of Mrs. Clinton that go to the intent issue:

1. Why did you set up a private email server in the first place?
2. You have pointed to Colin Powell as an example of a predecessor who used private email for personal correspondence. He used a gmail account for personal purposes and a government account for official business. Why would you not have used a similar arrangement?
3. As Secretary of State, would there not have been a presumption that from time to time there would be a need to send and receive classified information?
4. What, if any, methods did you have in place to send and receive classified emails securely?
5. Did you ever inform other government offices that your email server was not secure?

It seems to me that unless she could point to some method that was used to send and receive classified materials securely, there was never any intent to comply with the law in the first place.

 

[Denny Crane]

The FBI has reopened the investigation into Hiliar.. They found a bunch of emails that Hiliar and her accomplices were unable to keep secret.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ame:page/breaking-news-bar&tid=a_breakingnews

FBI to conduct new investigation of emails from Clinton’s private server

The FBI will investigate whether additional classified material is contained in emails sent using Hillary Clinton’s private email server while she was secretary of state, FBI director James Comey informed congressional leaders Friday.

The announcement appears to restart the FBI’s probe of Clinton’s server, less than two weeks before the presidential election, an explosive development that could shape the campaign’s final days.

In a letter to congressional leaders, Comey said that the FBI had, in connection with an “unrelated case,” recently “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the Clinton investigation.”

Comey indicated that he had been briefed on the new material yesterday. “I agreed that the FBI should take appropriate investigative steps designed to allow investigators to review these emails to determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance to our investigation,” he wrote.

 

[julius]

Got to give her credit. she is great at screwing up sure things.

 

[blue32]

The FBI has reopened the investigation into Hiliar.. They found a bunch of emails that Hiliar and her accomplices were unable to keep secret.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/fbi-to-conduct-new-investigation-of-emails-from-clintons-private-server/2016/10/28/0b1e9468-9d31-11e6-9980-50913d68eacb_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_no-nameage/breaking-news-bar&tid=a_breakingnews

FBI to conduct new investigation of emails from Clinton’s private server

The FBI will investigate whether additional classified material is contained in emails sent using Hillary Clinton’s private email server while she was secretary of state, FBI director James Comey informed congressional leaders Friday.

The announcement appears to restart the FBI’s probe of Clinton’s server, less than two weeks before the presidential election, an explosive development that could shape the campaign’s final days.

In a letter to congressional leaders, Comey said that the FBI had, in connection with an “unrelated case,” recently “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the Clinton investigation.”

Comey indicated that he had been briefed on the new material yesterday. “I agreed that the FBI should take appropriate investigative steps designed to allow investigators to review these emails to determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance to our investigation,” he wrote.

Well perhaps they will repair their reputation...... almost deserves its own thread......

 

[Nikolokolus]

So fucking dirty. I'm not sure what's worse. Corrupt and a criminal, or a loud mouth jerk that would be publicly embarrassing.

I think Trump's instincts are deeply undemocratic and dictatorial. I don't want to sound shrill and overly conspiratorial, but he is exactly the kind of person the founders were worried about seizing the reins of power.

Hillary is awful, but in the typical sort of way politicians are. Probably, not an existential threat however.

With any luck more revelations will come out and she'll be impeached and removed for High Crimes and Misdemeanors.

 

[julius]

It sounds like this has potentially nothing to do with the emails/wikileaks/Podesta and is about something unrelated and not a big deal.

 

[blue32]

How Hillary feels about young voters:

http://m.hannity.com/articles/election-493995/leaked-memo-appealing-to-young-voters-15249112/

 

[Natebishop3]

that's my belief too. It's not too difficult to find dirt on someone, but that could just be from gardening and not from burying Vince Foster in the woods. And it shouldn't be that hard to decipher between the two. But if you keep bringing it up, before too long people will grow tired of it and just start believing it as the gospel.

Since the Republicans/Conservatives have been trying to pin something...ANYTHING...on her for 25 years now, you'd think they'd have more than the small potatoes they always get.


Just wait 5 minutes and they'll have another smoking gun proving she's behind everything evil.

It's hard to find dirt on someone when the witnesses keep magically dying.

 

[barfo]

Do I think Hillary is so loved in DC that people would go along with a cover up? No, I doubt seriously that Hillary is loved by those who know her best. Do I think that the Democratic Party, and by extension President Obama (as head of his party) and his appointed Attorney General had an interest in seeing to it that the party's presumptive nominee would not be indicted and throw the race into chaos just before the convention? Yeah. Do I think that pressure could be brought to bear on Comey behind the scenes? Without doubt. Is there any proof for any of that? Not that I'm aware, and I'm sure that any effort to dig into this will not be productive.

So you are choosing to believe in a conspiracy theory. That's your right as a red-blooded American, of course.

Comey was in an impossibly tough position from the start. As head of the FBI he was charged with conducting an investigation against one of the highest of high profile people in the world. He no doubt wanted that investigation to appear apolitical, yet knew that as a Republican there would be suspicion of his motives if he pushed for charges to be brought. I would think that the worst possible outcome for him, personally, would have been to have pushed for charges, have Hillary pushed out of her position to be the candidate, and end up having the case fall apart in court and her get acquitted. Who can blame him for dodging that bullet if he thought the case would be tough to win?

As I understand the reasoning he presented in not recommending that the Justice Department pursue and indictment, he felt that while there was evidence that Hillary and her colleagues were "extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information", they didn't find proof that they intended to violate the law. The problem with that, of course, is that the law doesn't contain any requirement of demonstrating intent and other people have been prosecuted and convicted for offenses of exposing classified materials when there was no direct intent to do so.

I'm not here to defend Comey. I agree with you that he's in a tough position, but that's the job he signed up for. I'm not sure you or I can really argue with his conclusions given that he's seen the complete case and we haven't. We can certainly wallow in conspiracy theories - just realize that there are plenty on the left who think Comey went out of bounds in the other direction (probably many more now that he's reopened the investigation a few days before the election). If you think the government is fundamentally crooked and everyone involved is irredeemably corrupt, I guess I just don't see the evidence for that (because they destroyed it, right?).

I have a lot of questions that I would love to have seen asked of Mrs. Clinton that go to the intent issue:

1. Why did you set up a private email server in the first place?
2. You have pointed to Colin Powell as an example of a predecessor who used private email for personal correspondence. He used a gmail account for personal purposes and a government account for official business. Why would you not have used a similar arrangement?
3. As Secretary of State, would there not have been a presumption that from time to time there would be a need to send and receive classified information?
4. What, if any, methods did you have in place to send and receive classified emails securely?
5. Did you ever inform other government offices that your email server was not secure?

It seems to me that unless she could point to some method that was used to send and receive classified materials securely, there was never any intent to comply with the law in the first place.

Pretty sure there was such a system, unless you believe that she was never sent any documents that had the (apparently usual) classified header. Remember that of all her thousands of emails, only 6 had classified markings of any type.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I thought the NSA was reading and storing all of our emails.

 

[barfo]

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. It's a duck.

None of you apologists can explain why she's been the subject of criminal investigation throughout her career while lots of career politicians, almost all of them, are not considered criminals.

None of you haters can explain why if she's such an evil demon criminal mastermind incompetent fool that sleeps all the time, that after all your investigations and millions of dollars spent, she's still not been charged with a single crime.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

None of you haters can explain why if she's such an evil demon criminal mastermind incompetent fool that sleeps all the time, that after all your investigations and millions of dollars spent, she's still not been charged with a single crime.

barfo

She's very good at obstructing justice.

 

[barfo]

She's very good at obstructing justice.

She must be the best ever at obstructing justice, then. She must be much, much smarter than all of you haters.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

You can't make this shit up!

 

[barfo]

So, what did Hillary know about Weiner's weiner, and when did she know it?

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[blue32]

Some trending tweets ....

"Anthony Wiener dicks Hillary out of Presidency"
"This is not the first Wiener to ruin Hillary's life"