The Universe: Concept that could blow your mind

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magnifier661

magnifier661

B-A-N-A-N-A-S!
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Lets assume that this universe was completely natural (designed without intelligence) for argument sake. Don't need some 56 page argument about theism here. I just wanted to toss out something that has really got me thinking.

So if the big bang was the creation of all matter, space and time. Everything that was first created and will be created has already been created. Meaning, what happened a billion years ago and what happened a billion years from now are as one in this universe.

Now energy is considered a form of matter. Action like me deciding to write this thread is an example of using "energy". Would that mean that as the Universe expanded, before or whatever; this actual thread was already made? The responses from you have already been given. Kingspeed's ejaculation on pictures of Sly's headshot has already been decided?

I guess the real question is "All of everything already is during singularity?"
 
If a mind could see the universe from above the time dimension, history would appear predetermined. All 4 dimensions would stretch out before him and he would see the universe from its beginning to its end, but stationary and unmoving. The orange fireball of existence would have seams and dimples, like a giant basketball. This great consciousness is why you and I find ourselves together on this board.
 
magnifier661 said:
I guess the real question is "All of everything already is during singularity?"
Click to expand...

Isn't the question actually "Famous nonchalance pickle pigs deciding left Mary Poppins?"

barfo
 
tlongII said:
LSD or Shrooms this time Mags?
Click to expand...

I believe this wasn't from psychedelics. Or maybe it planted the seed? Who knows man!

Whatever the case, the logical thinking would support that everything that has been, is now and will be have all been pre-determined since singularity. Seriously think about it.

The Universe created matter, space and time. As I am typing "right now", I am using matter, space and time. So it would be logical to believe that my actions right now, were the same actions that were predisposed in singularity. So as the universe expanded, all information and energy expanded with it. :D
 
magnifier661 said:
Lets assume that this universe was completely natural (designed without intelligence) for argument sake. Don't need some 56 page argument about theism here. I just wanted to toss out something that has really got me thinking.

So if the big bang was the creation of all matter, space and time. Everything that was first created and will be created has already been created. Meaning, what happened a billion years ago and what happened a billion years from now are as one in this universe.

Now energy is considered a form of matter. Action like me deciding to write this thread is an example of using "energy". Would that mean that as the Universe expanded, before or whatever; this actual thread was already made? The responses from you have already been given. Kingspeed's ejaculation on pictures of Sly's headshot has already been decided?

I guess the real question is "All of everything already is during singularity?"
Click to expand...

How did you know about this!?
 
Get help, seriously. You may end up having Leonardo Decaprio play you in a movie if you aren't careful.

You coming up with these thoughts is like a kid peeling the stickers off his Rubik's Cube and running to his mom boasting of solving it.
 
magnifier661 said:
As you know, Kingspeed and Sly are my real life friends. I was the one that video taped the event!
Click to expand...

Well, I've got Kingspeed's Christmas present picked out.
S54Uwrg.jpg
 
jlprk said:
If a mind could see the universe from above the time dimension, history would appear predetermined. All 4 dimensions would stretch out before him and he would see the universe from its beginning to its end, but stationary and unmoving. The orange fireball of existence would have seams and dimples, like a giant basketball. This great consciousness is why you and I find ourselves together on this board.
Click to expand...

Yes, you and I definitely agree on this matter. It's really not that hard to understand really.
 
I don't know enough to say I agree or don't, but here is a wrinkle. There are models where there are an infinite number of universes accounting for every possible change. Just the conceps of infinite alone is mind boggling. But if this infinite multiverse model is correct, then this universe can only exist if everything that has or will occur happens exactly as it has or will. Otherwise, this would by definition be a different universe.
 
Further said:
I don't know enough to say I agree or don't, but here is a wrinkle. There are models where there are an infinite number of universes accounting for every possible change. Just the conceps of infinite alone is mind boggling. But if this infinite multiverse model is correct, then this universe can only exist if everything that has or will occur happens exactly as it has or will. Otherwise, this would by definition be a different universe.
Click to expand...
Woah!!!!! As if my mind Hasnt spun far enough!
 
This seems like a fancy defination for predetermined destiny. Ive thought on this line before though, with a thoery of expanding and collapsing universes which are reborn into an new universe or to replay events already happened.
 
donkiez said:
This seems like a fancy defination for predetermined destiny. Ive thought on this line before though, with a thoery of expanding and collapsing universes which are reborn into an new universe or to replay events already happened.
Click to expand...

I wasn't thinking of it like that. I think this can be fully compatible with the current "mainstream" Big Bang concept. Matter, Space and time are absolutes, but matter 1 billion years from now is still the same matter 1 billion years in the past.

I think there is a link somewhere that space travel is absolutely possible if you have the ability to harness fission like black holes or dark matter. Time is of no relevance in this regard.
 
Matter is absolute, I'm not sure if you are correct about space and time. We know space is expanding, and time is relative, so neither seem absolute to me. Spacetime in theory can be manipulated and even destroyed but matter can't.
 
Further said:
Matter is absolute, I'm not sure if you are correct about space and time. We know space is expanding, and time is relative, so neither seem absolute to me. Spacetime in theory can be manipulated and even destroyed but matter can't.
Click to expand...
Ahhh good point. I stand corrected regarding space and time being relative
 
Yes my man, perhaps you have it. All things began with a single event, natural spontaneous or from the snap of the creators fingers, is not the question.
The question is, will it flow from forever? Or eventual return, forever repeating the singularity. Like the creator playing with a yo yo. But then it could like a precision tuned antenna oscillating naturally, sustain only by freely acquired energy.
 
Further said:
But if this infinite multiverse model is correct, then this universe can only exist if everything that has or will occur happens exactly as it has or will. Otherwise, this would by definition be a different universe.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm not understanding but this seems like a trivial statement. If temporal causal dependency exists and things were different at other times, they would be different now.
 
First off, I'm just thinking here, I'm not claiming any knowledge (isn't that what magnifier threads are for?), but I'll expand a bit.

I'm not suggesting causality, that's beyond what I can assume. I am just saying if there are infinate universes, representing every possibility, then each one would have to exist exactly how it stands. But that does not mean we don't have free will. Our decisions could spring alternate universes or each possibility could exist and depending on our decision we could be switching universes like a choose your own adventure. But the concept of infinate universes representing all permutations awesome, especially when you consider the resulting fixed nature of our universe.

I really don't know, but I was thinking about the conceps of the multiverse, as some string theorists believe. I dont understand the mathematical constructs of high level physics so I'm just going by the dumbed down versions explained in English instead. But that doesn't provide me with the means to select a theory to believe in, just ideas to think about, and I find the multiverse perhaps the most mind boggling of all the theories I've read about.


I feel like I just rambled on and made zero sense. Sorry.
 
Further said:
I'm not suggesting causality, that's beyond what I can assume. I am just saying if there are infinate universes, representing every possibility, then each one would have to exist exactly how it stands. But that does not mean we don't have free will. Our decisions could spring alternate universes or each possibility could exist and depending on our decision we could be switching universes like a choose your own adventure. But the concept of infinate universes representing all permutations awesome, especially when you consider the resulting fixed nature of our universe.
Click to expand...

This is sort of what some philosophers come up with when they cross the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics with Block Time. Infinite variable realities representing all possibilities exist, all equally real, and our individual minds and (separately) all other possible variations of our minds are just traversing a certain set of already existing possibilites.

The implication of which is, from my perspective a "different" you is reading this post than read the previous one.
 
crowTrobot said:
The implication of which is, from my perspective a "different" you is reading this post than read the previous one.
Click to expand...
perhaps this is because I'm on my second glass of Sangiovese wine.

It's a fun concept to let roam around the old melon. I'm not to familiar with Block Time, but once I post this I'll go read a bit. It'll be good to get my head out my work for a while and read something totally different.
 
If you have any good links to block time theory, please share them
 
magnifier661 said:
Lets assume that this universe was completely natural (designed without intelligence) for argument sake. Don't need some 56 page argument about theism here. I just wanted to toss out something that has really got me thinking.

So if the big bang was the creation of all matter, space and time. Everything that was first created and will be created has already been created. Meaning, what happened a billion years ago and what happened a billion years from now are as one in this universe.

Now energy is considered a form of matter. Action like me deciding to write this thread is an example of using "energy". Would that mean that as the Universe expanded, before or whatever; this actual thread was already made? The responses from you have already been given. Kingspeed's ejaculation on pictures of Sly's headshot has already been decided?

I guess the real question is "All of everything already is during singularity?"
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd say that a purely mathematical view of the universe would mean that everything was pre-determined. There are neuro-scientists that argue that we don't actually have free will, and that we're simply robotically following brain function.

I don't buy into that idea personally, I think the mainstream scientific view tries to cut consciousness out of the equation. Once you incorporate consciousness, then you open the door for other possibilities, such as there being intention and design in the formation of the universe.
 
Sinobas said:
Yes, I'd say that a purely mathematical view of the universe would mean that everything was pre-determined. There are neuro-scientists that argue that we don't actually have free will, and that we're simply robotically following brain function.

I don't buy into that idea personally, I think the mainstream scientific view tries to cut consciousness out of the equation. Once you incorporate consciousness, then you open the door for other possibilities, such as there being intention and design in the formation of the universe.
Click to expand...

I can see your point here, but why would having an unconscious beginning not be compatible? I think the mainstream thinking would argue that consciousness is somewhat an anomaly of a natural byproduct of the entire process. Possibly, one's consciousness is not bound by matter, space or time.

Could be how time travel is possible. Because if your matter traveled back in time, the matter would be what it was during that time. Or in the future, matter would change to what it is during that time. Possibly only consciousness can stay the same in the different facets of time.
 
Sinobas said:
Yes, I'd say that a purely mathematical view of the universe would mean that everything was pre-determined. There are neuro-scientists that argue that we don't actually have free will, and that we're simply robotically following brain function.

I don't buy into that idea personally, I think the mainstream scientific view tries to cut consciousness out of the equation. Once you incorporate consciousness, then you open the door for other possibilities, such as there being intention and design in the formation of the universe.
Click to expand...

Bump.

Lately I've read stuff from Dr. Penrose on consciousness and they are looking at it from a quantum physics angle - subatomic level:



The mathmatic/supersymmetry angle is also interesting:

 
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