The Untouchables 2.0

[Orion Bailey]

After the recent progress, I have done a decent flip on who I think the core should be moving forward.

Dame and CJ are of course leading the Untouchables.

I then add Nurk and Vonleh.

I believe these four should be our core moving forward. Mixed on Aminu currently, but his D is a huge need for us.

The way Nurk and Vonleh have been playing together along with Dame, makes me feel those three can move the ball around to get through or around any defense.
CJ is a scoring threat against any team and is very important for the fact that he is one of the best in the league at creating his own shot.

Harkless, would be decent as a backup, but needs to improve his output a bit more or I think he can be replaced fairly easily. However his friendly contract makes it nice for this maxed out roster. To replace him might be hard to do without spending more.

Turner and Crabbe. they each provide a needed niche. Turner is that third ball handler with the starts and has all but turned into our second unit PG. I really like him as our PG off the bench, but does the money make that worth it, or can we draft a PG in the upcoming draft and try to move ET?

Crabbe provides elite outside shooting(though he needs to be more consistent) and is a big need for our style of offense. Can we replace his shooting for less money? He knows our system, so that is a plus and his drives to the hoop seems to be improving, but again.. that salary makes him questionable as a keeper to the core in my opinion.

Davis is a backup role player, but not quite big enough for C and not fast enough or good enough shooter for the PF. I think he goes.

I really like the future core of Dame/CJ/Vonleh/Nurk.

Very young with great outside shooting and great interior D.

I am okay with also keeping AC/Turner/Aminu one more year to see if they improve and can become part of that core, as their ages fit for the most part.

Who are your Untouchables moving forward?

 

[BosnianChampion]

Our best six players since Jusuf has joined are our starting five (Dame, CJ, Moe, Noah, Jusuf), and Allen Crabbe. I would like to keep all six as much as possible.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I don't think anyone should be classified as an untouchable. Unless you had Lebron in his prime I guess.

Dame is the closest thing to an untouchable we have. Merely because there arent a ton of players better than him.... and his leadership, face of thrle franchiseness and loyalty make it nearly impossible to deal him.

But if someone had a kevin durant for 3 more years and offered him for dame you'd do it.

Cj is close too, but if paul george had 3 or 4 years on a deal, and we could work out something with cj for something like that you would likely do it.

The goal is basically to just improve and get the best player in any deal.

So i dont really like calling someone "untouchable"

 

[Orion Bailey]

Our best six players since Jusuf has joined are our starting five (Dame, CJ, Moe, Noah, Jusuf), and Allen Crabbe. I would like to keep all six as much as possible.

I think id rather keep Turner than Harkless, because the D is about the same, if not better, but the ball handling is far superior. Does it equate to the salary difference? Maybe not, but I think at this point the ball handling is more important than Harkless D.

 

[Mediocre Man]

No one is untouchable. There are players in league I'd trade anyone for.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think id rather keep Turner than Harkless, because the D is about the same, if not better, but the ball handling is far superior. does it equate to the salary D/ Maybe not, but I think at this point the ball handling is more important than Harkless D.

Turner is garbage, IMO. Love me some Mo

 

[Scalma]

Dame and Nurkic are the only untouchables in my eyes. I would also trade CJ before Crabbe. We can actually get a star back and balance out the roster if we traded CJ. McCollum is the type of guy you build a franchise around, he truly has that type of personality/game. We could build an intriguing package for someone like jimmy butler.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

As far as core...

Damian, cj, vonleh and nurkic are really the only guys i see as ones id want to keep.

The others could be dealt for improvements.

I would love to see harkless packaged for an upgradr at sf. Whether that be with picks or players.

I like moe, but a better sf would do wonders for us.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't think anyone should be classified as an untouchable. Unless you had Lebron in his prime I guess.

Dame is the closest thing to an untouchable we have. Merely because there arent a ton of players better than him.... and his leadership, face of thrle franchiseness and loyalty make it nearly impossible to deal him.

But if someone had a kevin durant for 3 more years and offered him for dame you'd do it.

Cj is close too, but if paul george had 3 or 4 years on a deal, and we could work out something with cj for something like that you would likely do it.

The goal is basically to just improve and get the best player in any deal.

So i don't really like calling someone "untouchable"

But were not gonna gut the team and trade away our franchise players. And no roster has a 100% turnover ratio, so some guys will be on the team. Who do you think it will be?
Who do you think the organization values enough to try to keep as a core?
I think your fixating on the word Untouchable rather than the point of the question. I chose Untouchable, simply so I can have the movie image up.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

But were not gonna gut the team and trade away our franchise players. And no roster has a 100% turnover ratio, so some guys will be on the team. Who do you think it will be?
Who do you think the organization values enough to try to keep as a core?
I think your fixating on the word Untouchable rather than the point of the question. I chose Untouchable, simply so I can have the movie image up.

Beat ya to it

 

[GDiama]

I'd like to keep the starting unit and Aminu (just for certain defensive missions and matchups he is good and costs nothing) and try to trade either ET or Crabbe, whoever brings back more or maybe both. We need a really good 3 and D wing.

But, the most important thing as stated in Nurkic-Vonleh thread is our young guys to really work a lot this summer and come back better. Nurkic is a beast, but he is the opposite of efficiency and Vonleh just now stops being scared and is more aggressive. They can and need to get better.

 

[julius]

Im tempted to make an unwatchable poll.

but it would be pointless, because Meyers and Aminu would win easily.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Yeah the "core to build around" is probably the better topic. The word "untouchable" is a lighting rod around here.

For me I want to proceed further with the trio of Dame, CJ, and Nurk.

After that I would also prefer to keep Harkless and Vonleh. (low cost and high potential)

Then a decision has to be made between Crabbe and ET. I like both and they add two entirely different skill sets, but I don't think we can afford both long term.

So my answer is Dame, CJ, Harkless, Nurk, Vonleh, and.......probably ET over Crabbe.
Although I think Crabbe is a fantastic 3 point shooter, I think he is easier to move. And at the same time I think ET is harder to replace because of his versatility and value he brings specifically to our team.

 

[BBert]

Dame and Nurk are the keepers. It would take a lot to pry CJ from me, and I doubt such a player would be offered, so he stays too. Vonleh is close, based on potential and fit, but there are plenty of players in the league better than him, so he's available but not cheap. I like Mo too, but he's replaceable. The rest I'd trade without blinking.

I think there is something to be said for continuity. I think that's one of the Spur's lasting strengths. You have to have a long-time core, and then keep upgrading a little at a time, but not wholesale. That's why I'd make certain players "nearly" untouchable. Sometimes, continuity and chemistry > pure talent.

 

[e_blazer]

Yeah the "core to build around" is probably the better topic. The word "untouchable" is a lighting rod around here.

For me I want to proceed further with the trio of Dame, CJ, and Nurk.

After that I would also prefer to keep Harkless and Vonleh. (low cost and high potential)

Then a decision has to be made between Crabbe and ET. I like both and they add two entirely different skill sets, but I don't think we can afford both long term.

So my answer is Dame, CJ, Harkless, Nurk, Vonleh, and.......probably ET over Crabbe.
Although I think Crabbe is a fantastic 3 point shooter, I think he is easier to move. And at the same time I think ET is harder to replace because of his versatility and value he brings specifically to our team.

I think the money situation is going to demand that Crabbe be moved in order to avoid being in the Luxury Tax range next season. AC has provided some much needed fire power off the bench lately, but that's replaceable at a lower price tag. He's a player who needs a chance to show what he can do in a starting role and I think his size and shooting range make him an attractive commodity, albeit one with a hefty price tag, in today's 2-guard depleted NBA.

 

[BigGameDamian]

No one is untouchable. There are players in league I'd trade anyone for.

I like your answer. It proves you don't fall in love like a lot do.

 

[Natebishop3]

Dame and maybe Nurk.

For me, I'm still on the "trade CJ for the right price" bandwagon.

If Vonleh continues to improve, he will become extremely valuable. For some reason power forwards seem to be hard to find.

 

[e_blazer]

I like your answer. It proves you don't fall in love like a lot do.

No, it just proves that neither of you took the time to read the second part of the poll question, "or core to build around".

Sure, you can make up a hypothetical trade for any player on the Blazers' roster (or any other roster in the NBA) where the team would probably trade their star player. But GMs don't have the luxury of waiting for some magical hypothetical trade to come their way. They have to think about how to improve the roster with smart draft picks and sound trades. Do I think that there's zero chance Dame or CJ gets moved? No, but I'd put the odds as pretty high that they're still here next season.

 

[Dougnsalem]

Then a decision has to be made between Crabbe and ET. I like both and they add two entirely different skill sets, but I don't think we can afford both long term.

I agree 100%. I do see a big difference besides skills though. ET signed so he could play here(granted, for more more money, but still...). Crabbe signed an offer sheet to go elsewhere. Let him. He can be a starter on another team, and would probably like that more, and obviously he isn't opposed to moving. I too do like Crabbe and his 3's. Something is gonna have to give down the road though....

 

[BBert]

I agree 100%. I do see a big difference besides skills though. ET signed so he could play here(granted, for more more money, but still...). Crabbe signed an offer sheet to go elsewhere. Let him. He can be a starter on another team, and would probably like that more, and obviously he isn't opposed to moving. I too do like Crabbe and his 3's. Something is gonna have to give down the road though....

I think I prefer what Crabbe brings to the table going forward. Partly because I think getting a third ball handler to back up Dame/CJ who can play defense shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[Dougnsalem]

I think I prefer what Crabbe brings to the table going forward. Partly because I think getting a third ball handler to back up Dame/CJ who can play defense shouldn't be that difficult.

Yeah, it could be argued either way. I really do like both of them, even if they may be a little overpriced at the moment. I do see another big advantage of ET though. His quotes. Priceless..... Lol

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think we can agree there is no such thing as untouchable. I mean shit, I'd trade our entire roster for one season of LeBron. Add him, and a roster full of ring chasing vets on minimum contracts, and we'd have our most realistic shot at a title since 2000.

Since that's not happening, I'll list mine in order of least touchable to most touchable:

These four would take a no brainer trade to get me to move any of them:
Dame - for both talent and leadership
C.J. - I think many people underestimate how important it is to have players who can create their own shot
Nurk - young, big, cheap and talented
Vonleh - even younger, cheap and talent is starting to emerge

Beyond that, I'd trade anyone else on the roster without hesitation. Everyone else on our roster is flawed in some way, but given the choice here's my order:
Aminu - not a good starter, but like him as a back up, versatile defender that can guard multiple position, good rebounder for his size/position, favorable contract
Harkless - to me the most "meh" player on our roster. Doesn't really suck at anything, but is slightly below average at everything. Young, but doesn't appear to have much untapped upside
Turner - versatile, but expensive. Much better defender than Crabbe, but poor outside shooter. Like his passing and post up game. Don't like his contact.
Napier - Decent back up PG, cheap and seems like a hard worker

Doesn't matter/Don't care:
Connaughton
Layman
Quarterman

Would like to see moved:
Crabbe - would miss his 3-point shooting, wouldn't miss his contract. Too one-dimensional, can't create for himself or others, poor rebounder, poor passer, poor defender.
Davis - LOVED Davis last seasoon, not so much this season. He can and should be replaced.
Leonard - don't hate him as much as most, but would love to move his contract. However, if we move both Leonard and Davis, we need an influx of big bodies to take their places.

After not landing any big free agents last summer, my expectations are much lower this summer. The good thing is Olshey already has a bit of a head start on the summer. The Nurkic trade was an absolute home run. It addressed so many of our issues, and got us younger and anther 1st round pick, too. Vonleh's recent emergence has also alleviated one of our other biggest needs - a quality starting PF. I now believe he will get there.

So, what would I do? Dump Crabbe and Leonard to get under the luxury tax threshold. Trade minor to moderate assets to get a solid, proven back up 4/5 (i.e. CLE pick + Ezeli to NYK for Kyle O'Quinn + filler). O'Quinn is better and cheaper than all of Davis, Leonard and obviously Ezili. He's dirt cheap - for another year, a great rebounder, an excellent passer and an elite shot blocker with a very solid midrange jumper. Perfect back up for Nurk and Vonleh. He's underutilized in NY playing behind Porzingis and Hernangomez. Use our pick + MEMs to draft a cheap Crabbe replacement that can hopefully grow into our starting SF of the Future. Both of these guys need NBA range on their 3-pointer. We will need that if we move both Crabbe and Leonard. The two picks can be anywhere from SG to PF. Just take BPA available at any of those positions. Tweeners don't always work as starters, but the versatility of a guy that can play two positions (2/3 or 3/4) can be an asset off the bench.

Make other minor tweaks as necessary to clear additional cap space. I suspect we will eventually be over the luxury tax threshold, but should put it off as long as possible to postpone being hit by the repeater tax while we are still trying to build a contending roster. I think if we do build a contender, Paul won't mind paying the tax and the other penalties, like losing the MLE become less onerous. If we are actually a contender (big if, but that's the goal), ring chasing vets will be willing to sign here for the vet minimum.

BNM

 

[PDXFonz]

Voted for all of them

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think we can agree there is no such thing as untouchable. I mean shit, I'd trade our entire roster for one season of LeBron. Add him, and a roster full of ring chasing vets on minimum contracts, and we'd have our most realistic shot at a title since 2000.

Since that's not happening, I'll list mine in order of least touchable to most touchable:

These four would take a no brainer trade to get me to move any of them:
Dame - for both talent and leadership
C.J. - I think many people underestimate how important it is to have players who can create their own shot
Nurk - young, big, cheap and talented
Vonleh - even younger, cheap and talent is starting to emerge

Beyond that, I'd trade anyone else on the roster without hesitation. Everyone else on our roster is flawed in some way, but given the choice here's my order:
Aminu - not a good starter, but like him as a back up, versatile defender that can guard multiple position, good rebounder for his size/position, favorable contract
Harkless - to me the most "meh" player on our roster. Doesn't really suck at anything, but is slightly below average at everything. Young, but doesn't appear to have much untapped upside
Turner - versatile, but expensive. Much better defender than Crabbe, but poor outside shooter. Like his passing and post up game. Don't like his contact.
Napier - Decent back up PG, cheap and seems like a hard worker

Doesn't matter/Don't care:
Connaughton
Layman
Quarterman

Would like to see moved:
Crabbe - would miss his 3-point shooting, wouldn't miss his contract. Too one-dimensional, can't create for himself or others, poor rebounder, poor passer, poor defender.
Davis - LOVED Davis last seasoon, not so much this season. He can and should be replaced.
Leonard - don't hate him as much as most, but would love to move his contract. However, if we move both Leonard and Davis, we need an influx of big bodies to take their places.

After not landing any big free agents last summer, my expectations are much lower this summer. The good thing is Olshey already has a bit of a head start on the summer. The Nurkic trade was an absolute home run. It addressed so many of our issues, and got us younger and anther 1st round pick, too. Vonleh's recent emergence has also alleviated one of our other biggest needs - a quality starting PF. I now believe he will get there.

So, what would I do? Dump Crabbe and Leonard to get under the luxury tax threshold. Trade minor to moderate assets to get a solid, proven back up 4/5 (i.e. CLE pick + Ezeli to NYK for Kyle O'Quinn + filler). O'Quinn is better and cheaper than all of Davis, Leonard and obviously Ezili. He's dirt cheap - for another year, a great rebounder, an excellent passer and an elite shot blocker with a very solid midrange jumper. Perfect back up for Nurk and Vonleh. He's underutilized in NY playing behind Porzingis and Hernangomez. Use our pick + MEMs to draft a cheap Crabbe replacement that can hopefully grow into our starting SF of the Future. Both of these guys need NBA range on their 3-pointer. We will need that if we move both Crabbe and Leonard. The two picks can be anywhere from SG to PF. Just take BPA available at any of those positions. Tweeners don't always work as starters, but the versatility of a guy that can play two positions (2/3 or 3/4) can be an asset off the bench.

Make other minor tweaks as necessary to clear additional cap space. I suspect we will eventually be over the luxury tax threshold, but should put it off as long as possible to postpone being hit by the repeater tax while we are still trying to build a contending roster. I think if we do build a contender, Paul won't mind paying the tax and the other penalties, like losing the MLE become less onerous. If we are actually a contender (big if, but that's the goal), ring chasing vets will be willing to sign here for the vet minimum.

BNM

For the tl:dr crowd: Olshey already hit a walk off home run with the Nurkic trade. While another home run this summer would be awesome, I'd be happy with a ground rule double (Kyle O'Quinn) and a couple bloop singles (our draft pick and MEM's as potential cheap Crabbe replacements).

BNM

 

[PDXFonz]

I wouldn't trade Dame for 1 season of Lebron. No idea what that season would be. No idea what the Dame season would be. This team is closer to contention than a lot give it credit for. Youngest roster in the NBA means plenty of room to develop. Newly signed long term deals means plenty of time for them to get better, to become elite NBA players. Its like people forget this was originally presumed to be a multi year rebuild, and now after making the playoffs a third straight year we are looking to make it four in a row.

Obviously not everyone is untouchable as I joked about earlier, but I'm still definitely not trading Dame, CJ, or Nurkic for a rental of any player... even if it is Lebron James.

 

[BigGameDamian]

I wouldn't trade Dame for 1 season of Lebron. No idea what that season would be. No idea what the Dame season would be. This team is closer to contention than a lot give it credit for. Youngest roster in the NBA means plenty of room to develop. Newly signed long term deals means plenty of time for them to get better, to become elite NBA players. Its like people forget this was originally presumed to be a multi year rebuild, and now after making the playoffs a third straight year we are looking to make it four in a row.

Obviously not everyone is untouchable as I joked about earlier, but I'm still definitely not trading Dame, CJ, or Nurkic for a rental of any player... even if it is Lebron James.

CJ, Harkless, Aminu and the picks for Paul George!

 

[Dougnsalem]

I think we can agree there is no such thing as untouchable. I mean shit, I'd trade our entire roster for one season of LeBron. Add him, and a roster full of ring chasing vets on minimum contracts, and we'd have our most realistic shot at a title since 2000.

Since that's not happening, I'll list mine in order of least touchable to most touchable:

These four would take a no brainer trade to get me to move any of them:
Dame - for both talent and leadership
C.J. - I think many people underestimate how important it is to have players who can create their own shot
Nurk - young, big, cheap and talented
Vonleh - even younger, cheap and talent is starting to emerge

Beyond that, I'd trade anyone else on the roster without hesitation. Everyone else on our roster is flawed in some way, but given the choice here's my order:
Aminu - not a good starter, but like him as a back up, versatile defender that can guard multiple position, good rebounder for his size/position, favorable contract
Harkless - to me the most "meh" player on our roster. Doesn't really suck at anything, but is slightly below average at everything. Young, but doesn't appear to have much untapped upside
Turner - versatile, but expensive. Much better defender than Crabbe, but poor outside shooter. Like his passing and post up game. Don't like his contact.
Napier - Decent back up PG, cheap and seems like a hard worker

Doesn't matter/Don't care:
Connaughton
Layman
Quarterman

Would like to see moved:
Crabbe - would miss his 3-point shooting, wouldn't miss his contract. Too one-dimensional, can't create for himself or others, poor rebounder, poor passer, poor defender.
Davis - LOVED Davis last seasoon, not so much this season. He can and should be replaced.
Leonard - don't hate him as much as most, but would love to move his contract. However, if we move both Leonard and Davis, we need an influx of big bodies to take their places.

After not landing any big free agents last summer, my expectations are much lower this summer. The good thing is Olshey already has a bit of a head start on the summer. The Nurkic trade was an absolute home run. It addressed so many of our issues, and got us younger and anther 1st round pick, too. Vonleh's recent emergence has also alleviated one of our other biggest needs - a quality starting PF. I now believe he will get there.

So, what would I do? Dump Crabbe and Leonard to get under the luxury tax threshold. Trade minor to moderate assets to get a solid, proven back up 4/5 (i.e. CLE pick + Ezeli to NYK for Kyle O'Quinn + filler). O'Quinn is better and cheaper than all of Davis, Leonard and obviously Ezili. He's dirt cheap - for another year, a great rebounder, an excellent passer and an elite shot blocker with a very solid midrange jumper. Perfect back up for Nurk and Vonleh. He's underutilized in NY playing behind Porzingis and Hernangomez. Use our pick + MEMs to draft a cheap Crabbe replacement that can hopefully grow into our starting SF of the Future. Both of these guys need NBA range on their 3-pointer. We will need that if we move both Crabbe and Leonard. The two picks can be anywhere from SG to PF. Just take BPA available at any of those positions. Tweeners don't always work as starters, but the versatility of a guy that can play two positions (2/3 or 3/4) can be an asset off the bench.

Make other minor tweaks as necessary to clear additional cap space. I suspect we will eventually be over the luxury tax threshold, but should put it off as long as possible to postpone being hit by the repeater tax while we are still trying to build a contending roster. I think if we do build a contender, Paul won't mind paying the tax and the other penalties, like losing the MLE become less onerous. If we are actually a contender (big if, but that's the goal), ring chasing vets will be willing to sign here for the vet minimum.

BNM

Great post. Just saying.....

 

[Boob-No-More]

I wouldn't trade Dame for 1 season of Lebron. No idea what that season would be.

It would be the first time since 1978 that we'd have the best player in the world on our team, and when you have the best player in the world, you always have a legitimate shot at the title.

Yeah, I love Dame. C.J. and Nurk, but I love championships more. LeBron James isn't coming here, but if there was anyway we could get him, I'd do whatever it would take - without hesitation.

Again, I love our team and Dame is as close to untouchable as it gets. I'm also a huge C.J. fan and not in any way in the "they can't coexist" camp. I believe surrounding them with the right players can hide their deficiencies to the point that we can build a contender. Nurk was one of those pieces. Vonleh is starting to look like he may be another. Still, there are no guarantees. I'm as excited about this team's future as anyone, but I would trade that unknown future for a legitimate shot at a title, even if it was for only a year.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

CJ, Harkless, Aminu and the picks for Paul George!

Really? I MIGHT consider it with a guaranteed re-signing for PA, but not for a year rental.

 

[PDXFonz]

I think people under value what Crabbe gives us. Crabbe is the kind of player you need to win a playoff series in today's league. That is why the cavs went out to get Korver. I loved hearing Clyde Frasier the other day say that "you need a guy like him today, or you can't compete". Every announcer has been salivating just thinking about butter and lemon since Crabbe has come out of his shell recently.

I want to wait and see what deals players get under the new CBA before we move Crabbes contract. Right now it might not look the best, but I do think it will look better once the cap increases and players start getting similar contracts for possibly less value.