This franchise just gave Enes Kanter the same money as they let Wes Matthews walk for

[Natebishop3]

Yeah that's exactly what I think happened. Wes said, "Fuck this if Cuban doesn't get DJ I'm going back to Portland." And Cuban said, "I'll give you all the money if DJ leaves, just delete that tweet."

I don't think he could stomach losing both of his marquee signings. I think it's VERY strange that Wes got significantly more than was originally reported.

 

[Chrionex]

Damnit you guys are ruining my fantasy scenario. In my head Wes and his agent stroll on into the room and Cuban is like "thanks for sticking to your word Wes, you're a cool cat. But I think we should discuss the terms of your contract again" and then Wes and his agent are like oh what the fuck now. But then they look at the contract and it's for max and everyone hugs and drinks champagne and there are lots of feels.


Meanwhile in SA there is no champagne and as soon as the line is signed Pop quietly whispers "you're my bitch now" while a single tear of fear rolls from Duncan's eye.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Meanwhile in SA there is no champagne and as soon as the line is signed Pop quietly whispers "you're my bitch now" while a single tear of fear rolls from Duncan's eye.

It's like that scene in Game of Thrones. Popovich is Ramsay Bolton, LaMarcus is Sansa Stark, and Duncan is Reek.

 

[Chrionex]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA


Yes.

 

[Schilly]

Money aside (Paul Allen's problem, not mine) if we do land Kanter, are we really as bad as we think? We have added 5 guys under the age of 25, and a 27yo Henderson. Aside from Vonleh they were all significant contributors and or at least part time starters. Statistically what have we added vs lost?

Per 36
Kanter 19.6pt 11.3reb 20.3PER
Davis 12.8pts 11.7reb 20PER
Plumlee 14.8pts 10.6reb 18PER
Aminu 10.9pts 9reb 14.4PER
Henderson 15.1pts 4.2reb 13.2PER
Vonleh 11.5pts 12reb 13.5PER

Compared to
Aldridge 23.8pts 10.8reb 22.8PER
Matthews 17pts 3.9reb 16.1PER
Batum 10pts 6.3reb 13.1PER
Lopez 12.4pts 8.7reb 16.2PER
Afflalo 12.6pts 3.2reb 8.2PER
Freeland 9.9pts 11.1reb 12.2PER

I know i know stats aren't enough but stats alone suggest we might be better than we think, if we land Kanter.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Money aside (Paul Allen's problem, not mine) if we do land Kanter, are we really as bad as we think? We have added 5 guys under the age of 25, and a 27yo Henderson. Aside from Vonleh they were all significant contributors and or at least part time starters. Statistically what have we added vs lost?

Per 36
Kanter 19.6pt 11.3reb 20.3PER
Davis 12.8pts 11.7reb 20PER
Plumlee 14.8pts 10.6reb 18PER
Aminu 10.9pts 9reb 14.4PER
Henderson 15.1pts 4.2reb 13.2PER
Vonleh 11.5pts 12reb 13.5PER

Compared to
Aldridge 23.8pts 10.8reb 22.8PER
Matthews 17pts 3.9reb 16.1PER
Batum 10pts 6.3reb 13.1PER
Lopez 12.4pts 8.7reb 16.2PER
Afflalo 12.6pts 3.2reb 8.2PER
Freeland 9.9pts 11.1reb 12.2PER

I know i know stats aren't enough but stats alone suggest we might be better than we think, if we land Kanter.

This is why I'm secretly stoked for next season. I feel like we could rattle off a stupid-long winning streak for no good reason, just because we don't know how good we could be.

 

[Draco]

I'm seriously starting to wonder if Wes really did consider backing out, and Cuban threw more money at him. He did make that tweet about being gone if DJ was gone (which he quickly deleted.)

If I was a Mavs fan I would be furious though. First they strike out on Jordan and then they sign Wes to 17.5 million per year?

When Wes' deal was originally agreed to the dollar amount wasn't known. The reports said it depended on DeAndre signing. Once DeAndre committed it was reported at $57million.

What I believe happened is before Wes comitted the Mavs knew the Kings offered $64million and told Wes they'd pay him every dollar they could if DeAndre joined which was $57 million but if DeAndre didn't join he'd get $70 million.

The Mavs wanted to get Wes commitment to help convince DeAndre to sign.

 

[LTG22O]

That just doesn't seem right.

It seems right...they are forcing OKC'S hand, they know they will match so they are gonna make them pay. He would be worth that money over Wes anyhow.

 

[LuckyShot]

On it's face the thread title looks bad. However, teams are willing to pay players based on how valuable they perceive those players to be to their team at that point in time, not just generally how good a player is viewed around the league. Wes isn't that valuable to us at this stage.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Money aside (Paul Allen's problem, not mine) if we do land Kanter, are we really as bad as we think? We have added 5 guys under the age of 25, and a 27yo Henderson. Aside from Vonleh they were all significant contributors and or at least part time starters. Statistically what have we added vs lost?

Per 36
Kanter 19.6pt 11.3reb 20.3PER
Davis 12.8pts 11.7reb 20PER
Plumlee 14.8pts 10.6reb 18PER
Aminu 10.9pts 9reb 14.4PER
Henderson 15.1pts 4.2reb 13.2PER
Vonleh 11.5pts 12reb 13.5PER

Compared to
Aldridge 23.8pts 10.8reb 22.8PER
Matthews 17pts 3.9reb 16.1PER
Batum 10pts 6.3reb 13.1PER
Lopez 12.4pts 8.7reb 16.2PER
Afflalo 12.6pts 3.2reb 8.2PER
Freeland 9.9pts 11.1reb 12.2PER

I know i know stats aren't enough but stats alone suggest we might be better than we think, if we land Kanter.

It looks even better if you only use Kanter's OKC numbers. Per 36 - 21.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 24.9 PER.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

Seems perfectly right to me. 23 year old 7 footer who is a elite post scorer and decent rebounder > old, achilles snapped 6'5 SG that can't create his own shot.

 

[e_blazer]

Seems perfectly right to me. 23 year old 7 footer who is a elite post scorer and decent rebounder > old, achilles snapped 6'5 SG that can't create his own shot.

No need to denigrate Wes in order to make a point. Players at different stages of their careers fit better in differing team situations. The Blazers are changing up and going with a youth movement to build around Dame. They have no realistic chance at contending in the next 2-3 years. Bringing Wes back would have been a disservice to both him and the team. Assuming he comes back strong from his injury, Wes is in the prime of his career and needs a chance to be on the big stage. Dallas looked to be able to provide that when he agreed to sign. Not so much without Jordan, but the intentions were right.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

No need to denigrate Wes in order to make a point. Players at different stages of their careers fit better in differing team situations. The Blazers are changing up and going with a youth movement to build around Dame. They have no realistic chance at contending in the next 2-3 years. Bringing Wes back would have been a disservice to both him and the team. Assuming he comes back strong from his injury, Wes is in the prime of his career and needs a chance to be on the big stage. Dallas looked to be able to provide that when he agreed to sign. Not so much without Jordan, but the intentions were right.

other than calling a 28 year old "old", he didn't denigrate Wes. He is in fact a "achilles snapped 6'5 SG that can't create his own shot."

You know who Wes reminds me of? Brandon Roy. His heart told him he could still play even though he was done. Because of that he insisted on a very large contract. Even after he completely sucked and we amnestied him, his heart told him he could still play. He screwed the T-pups out of their MLE. Finally, he retired.

I hope I'm wrong, but if Wes gets injured in the next year, the parallels will be unfortunate.

 

[Mediocre Man]

16.1 PER for Wes
24.9 PER for Kanter

Younger, not coming off major injury, can play two positions....not seeing the reason for hate. His defense is poor, but his offense and rebounding more than make up for it

 

[Strenuus]

other than calling a 28 year old "old", he didn't denigrate Wes. He is in fact a "achilles snapped 6'5 SG that can't create his own shot."

You know who Wes reminds me of? Brandon Roy. His heart told him he could still play even though he was done. Because of that he insisted on a very large contract. Even after he completely sucked and we amnestied him, his heart told him he could still play. He screwed the T-pups out of their MLE. Finally, he retired.

I hope I'm wrong, but if Wes gets injured in the next year, the parallels will be unfortunate.

Roy's career panned out to be that... He thought when he did sign the contract that he could do it..

Wes hasn't played a single minute since the injury... there's should be no comparison when the requirements for the comparison haven't been met.

 

[blue9]

This is why I'm secretly stoked for next season. I feel like we could rattle off a stupid-long winning streak for no good reason, just because we don't know how good we could be.

Me too! We're nowhere close to training camp, but I already have a weird feeling that this team is going to be like that team from several years ago that rattled off something like a 13 game winning streak with Travis Freaking Outlaw on the roster (starting?).
That's the thing with young teams - a little confidence goes a LONG way. I think it's dangerous for the organization or fans to base opinions/decisions off of the high times though - just gotta enjoy them while they last, but understand they aren't a true representation of the team.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Me too! We're nowhere close to training camp, but I already have a weird feeling that this team is going to be like that team from several years ago that rattled off something like a 13 game winning streak with Travis Freaking Outlaw on the roster (starting?).
That's the thing with young teams - a little confidence goes a LONG way. I think it's dangerous for the organization or fans to base opinions/decisions off of the high times though - just gotta enjoy them while they last, but understand they aren't a true representation of the team.

Hmm, that sounds familiar...

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Can Wes walk without limping already? If so then yes, yes they did.

 

[riverman]

It will take the other teams in the league half a season to know how to game plan for our new roster.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

No need to denigrate Wes in order to make a point. Players at different stages of their careers fit better in differing team situations. The Blazers are changing up and going with a youth movement to build around Dame. They have no realistic chance at contending in the next 2-3 years. Bringing Wes back would have been a disservice to both him and the team. Assuming he comes back strong from his injury, Wes is in the prime of his career and needs a chance to be on the big stage. Dallas looked to be able to provide that when he agreed to sign. Not so much without Jordan, but the intentions were right.

I'm not sure how that was denigrating Wes - it's just the truth. He is a SG that can't create his own shot and he just snapped his achilles. That's the truth. Wes is one of my favorite blazers of all time - but you can't give out 18 million dollars to everyone, especially one coming off of major surgery and already had limited offensive capabilities - and now his defense will be hindered.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm not sure how that was denigrating Wes - it's just the truth. He is a SG that can't create his own shot and he just snapped his achilles. That's the truth. Wes is one of my favorite blazers of all time - but you can't give out 18 million dollars to everyone, especially one coming off of major surgery and already had limited offensive capabilities - and now his defense will be hindered.

"old, achilles snapped 6'5 SG that can't create his own shot."

Denigrate may be the wrong word, but you certainly didn't put him in the most flattering light. 28 isn't old, it's prime NBA age. Can't create his own shot? I think Harden might have a differing viewpoint on that statement given how Wes abused him posting him up in the 2014 playoffs. Wes has never had a situation where he was a major focus of the offense, so spot up shooting ws his forte with the Blazers and he's really good at it, but I don't think it's fair to try to stick him in just that box. The achilles injury is true, but he's already showing good signs that he's on the fast track to healing from it. It would be a gamble to bet on Wes, but he's shown many times before that he's a gamble worth taking.

 

[riverman]

To me Wes is not a guy you can replace for many reasons. Vocal leader on defense being a big part of it. Great 3 pt shooter, high basketball IQ, great character...I hope he rocks it in Dallas. I'll still watch him play. The logistics, favor airing on caution and going young moving forward.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

"old, achilles snapped 6'5 SG that can't create his own shot."

Denigrate may be the wrong word, but you certainly didn't put him in the most flattering light. 28 isn't old, it's prime NBA age. Can't create his own shot? I think Harden might have a differing viewpoint on that statement given how Wes abused him posting him up in the 2014 playoffs. Wes has never had a situation where he was a major focus of the offense, so spot up shooting ws his forte with the Blazers and he's really good at it, but I don't think it's fair to try to stick him in just that box. The achilles injury is true, but he's already showing good signs that he's on the fast track to healing from it. It would be a gamble to bet on Wes, but he's shown many times before that he's a gamble worth taking.

That's because --as Olshey said in the article-- its the harsh truth. Achilles are NOT something to mess with. 28 might not be old, but you can't realistically think he will be 100% healthy for this entire season. He'll be 29 in october. So, given this is a "recuperating" year for him, he is 30 at the beginning of next season making 18 million. 30 is when you're realistically going to get him back, 100% healthy (however healthy 100% is after achilles surgery). He was already limited in creating his own shot. Sure, he can post up...but lets see him blow by someone off the dribble, lets see him crossover, spin move, stepback jumper. ANYTHING without him being in a set position. If he has to dribble - he is limited. That's just the fact of the matter & thats a big limitation for a SG (which was covered up by Batum being a great passer and ballhander for a SF).

I don't think paying 18 mill for a SG that you'd realistically have healthy at age 30, with this group of players, is even comparable to playing a 23 year old center who is on offensive force and solid rebounder. Additionally, you don't know how the achilles will affect Wes' defense. Love the dude, but as with all players, he has his limitations - and its a lot easier to find a middle aged SG than it is to find a 7' offensive beast. That's all my point was.

 

[e_blazer]

That's because --as Olshey said in the article-- its the harsh truth. Achilles are NOT something to mess with. 28 might not be old, but you can't realistically think he will be 100% healthy for this entire season. He'll be 29 in october. So, given this is a "recuperating" year for him, he is 30 at the beginning of next season making 18 million. 30 is when you're realistically going to get him back, 100% healthy (however healthy 100% is after achilles surgery). He was already limited in creating his own shot. Sure, he can post up...but lets see him blow by someone off the dribble, lets see him crossover, spin move, stepback jumper. ANYTHING without him being in a set position. If he has to dribble - he is limited. That's just the fact of the matter & thats a big limitation for a SG (which was covered up by Batum being a great passer and ballhander for a SF).

I don't think paying 18 mill for a SG that you'd realistically have healthy at age 30, with this group of players, is even comparable to playing a 23 year old center who is on offensive force and solid rebounder. Additionally, you don't know how the achilles will affect Wes' defense. Love the dude, but as with all players, he has his limitations - and its a lot easier to find a middle aged SG than it is to find a 7' offensive beast. That's all my point was.

There are a whole lot of suppositions in there, but, for the record, I agree with you and Olshey that passing on giving Wes a new contract here was the right thing to do. Doesn't change the fact that I love the guy as a player and wish him great success. All things considered, he wasn't the right guy for where the Blazers are heading and the Blazers weren't the right team for a guy at his stage of his career.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

There are a whole lot of suppositions in there, but, for the record, I agree with you and Olshey that passing on giving Wes a new contract here was the right thing to do. Doesn't change the fact that I love the guy as a player and wish him great success. All things considered, he wasn't the right guy for where the Blazers are heading and the Blazers weren't the right team for a guy at his stage of his career.

On the off chance anyone actually read this, I just didn't want it to seem like I was hating on Wes. I was just answering the question in the OP as to why one is worth it for this team and why the other is not.

We went about it in different ways, I detailed, albeit briefly, why it isn't a really comparable situation -youth, health, 7'0 vs 6'5- and Wesleys limitations as a ball handler make it rather tough to play alongside dame without Batum.

I wish we could've kept him honestly - just at about half of what he got. His veteran presence would've been nice.

 

[Natebishop3]

Seriously? Some of you would have given Wes 17.5 million per year?

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I have to hand it to Wes and his Agent. They said they actually could see getting more money this off-season after the injury then before (due to our team performance showing how much we missed him). They were right. Of course, they were only right because of a crazy circumstance of a team getting left at the alter and having money burning a hole in their pocket.

And no, I wouldn't pay Wes that much. Love him, wish he would have stayed but I wouldn't have paid max even if he didn't get hurt.

 

[oldmangrouch]

To me Wes is not a guy you can replace for many reasons. Vocal leader on defense being a big part of it. Great 3 pt shooter, high basketball IQ, great character...I hope he rocks it in Dallas. I'll still watch him play. The logistics, favor airing on caution and going young moving forward.

All true. I was actually OK with letting him go...but I do wonder at the karmic implications.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Seriously? Some of you would have given Wes 17.5 million per year?

No, I just would have given him more than Kanter.

 

[jlprk]

I have to hand it to Wes and his Agent. They said they actually could see getting more money this off-season after the injury then before (due to our team performance showing how much we missed him). They were right. Of course, they were only right because of a crazy circumstance of a team getting left at the alter and having money burning a hole in their pocket.

And no, I wouldn't pay Wes that much. Love him, wish he would have stayed but I wouldn't have paid max even if he didn't get hurt.

I'm surprised he got even $12M, with that injury. His agent estimated the market very well.