OT Three Hotels Approaching Foreclosure in the Heart of Portland Offer a Warning to City Leaders

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BlazerBender said:
Keep in mind the one HUGE key factor in trying to help them.

They must want and accept the help.

It has been my experience that most deny the help and prefer to be destructive to themselves and their surroundings.
Cant help those who don't want to help themselves
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They can either take a home, move to a different city, or be forced into a prison or rehab.

Choice is theirs.
 
Chris Craig said:
Yeah, the ones that can work, get them back working and earning a wage. There is a pride in that they have lost. Get them back on their feet.
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A lot of the unhoused don't have any documentation of identity, which basically makes legally working impossible. Consider if you have no ID, no SS card, no proof of address--where in the governmental bureaucracy do you begin in order to reclaim your identity?
 
bigbailes said:
Was there this summer and man you are right. First night we were there (Thursday) we went to a cool area not far from DT and grabbed some food, decided we would bar hop our way back to the hotel. Once we got past the first couple blocks of the neighborhood we were in, NOTHING until we got back to the stadium and even they were closing up by 11 on a Thursday. The next night we were out and about, got back to the hotel around 10 and decided to head in another direction to find some food, absolutely nothing open and no one on the streets. Ended up having to get take out from Hooters as that was literally the only food option DT. I didn't even notice much in the way of homelessness or people panhandling. Sounds like they had a horrible case of violence down there and now no one goes down there after dark. Never really felt like we were in danger walking around but aside from going to a Cardinals game (trying to see every MLB stadium), we have ZERO desire to ever go back, feeling like we did pretty much everything we wanted to do in one weekend.
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Co-workers told me that right outside the city of STL there were homes, empty, and if you just mowed the lawn and took care of it…it’s yours. I didn’t believe it, but they were like, no, you get to have it, it’s not worth anything.
 
BlazerBender said:
You know most will end up in prison right?
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That hasn't happened in any other housing first effort. It shouldn't happen in this one.

Again, we have blueprints to do this right (which means helping nearly all of these people) and save a TON of money. All we need to do is follow them.
 
Phatguysrule said:
That hasn't happened in any other housing first effort. It shouldn't happen in this one.

Again, we have blueprints to do this right and save a TON of money. All we need to do is follow them.
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Different parts of the world with different mindsets. The models are out the window when it comes to different cultures and behaviors.

And i would submit it is already happening. Id have to research, but i believe i already read that some small temp housing places have already been trashed by the inhabitants. That is not a model i would follow. Not interested in tossing money down the drain just cause “we have it”, which we really don't. Not if we consider the aging infrastructure of our bridges, highways and other things that should have much more spent on them than we currently are spending.

id prefer to put more money into education than into homeless camps. The money isn't really there unless we deny other facets full funds to be successful.
And no, in this global climate, im not interested in reducing military funding.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
A lot of the unhoused don't have any documentation of identity, which basically makes legally working impossible. Consider if you have no ID, no SS card, no proof of address--where in the governmental bureaucracy do you begin in order to reclaim your identity?
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The best way would be to begin in a housing first situation with a social worker helping to walk you through the process. Even without an ID, having a secure address makes that person known. So the social worker has a much better chance to help them resolve their issues.
 
BlazerBender said:
Different parts of the world with different mindsets. The models are out the window when it comes to different cultures and behaviors.
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Our culture isn't appreciably different than the city of Salt Lake City.

What you are describing hasn't happened in ANY Housing First effort.
 
BlazerBender said:
its happening right here in Portland though.
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No it's not. If that happens it's not a housing first effort. It can't happen in a legit Housing First effort.

Only people who are dangerous would be put in jail. The incentives don't align that way.
 
BlazerBender said:
Different parts of the world with different mindsets. The models are out the window when it comes to different cultures and behaviors.

And i would submit it is already happening. Id have to research, but i believe i already read that some small temp housing places have already been trashed by the inhabitants. That is not a model i would follow. Not interested in tossing money down the drain just cause “we have it”, which we really don't. Not if we consider the aging infrastructure of our bridges, highways and other things that should have much more spent on them than we currently are spending.

id prefer to put more money into education than into homeless camps. The money isn't really there unless we deny other facets full funds to be successful.
And no, in this global climate, im not interested in reducing military funding.
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You are ignoring reality. Housing first saves us money. The only way to toss money down the drain is by arresting homeless people indiscriminately or not following housing first principles.

We have more than enough money to house these people and treat them. It's already there and it's earmarked.

Of course there will be some some damage. Far less expensive than allowing them to be homeless, which is even less expensive than putting them in prison (which we don't have the funds or space for).
 
Phatguysrule said:
You are ignoring reality. Housing first saves us money. The only way to toss money down the drain is by arresting homeless people indiscriminately or not following housing first principles.

We have more than enough money to house these people and treat them. It's already there and it's earmarked.

Of course there will be some some damage. Far less expensive than allowing them to be homeless, which is even less expensive than putting them in prison (which we don't have the funds or space for).
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I think it is you who is ignoring reality. ;)
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/housing-first-effectiveness
 
BlazerBender said:
Looks like your opinion of slc is more based off a headline than the in depth reality?

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2020/05/11/utah-was-once-lauded/
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Your link says that during the housing first program it was successful. It saved them a ton of money and nearly eradicated homelessness. Until they stopped doing it.

The flood of attention coincided with the culmination of the state’s 10-year homelessness initiative, a project that started during the tenure of former Gov. Jon Huntsman and extended into the administration of Gov. Gary Herbert, who had served as Huntsman’s lieutenant governor.

“[W]e did our best to eradicate homelessness when I was governor before, and we came pretty close to doing that,” Huntsman, who’s now running to lead the state again, told The Salt Lake Tribune shortly before announcing his candidacy.
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No it does not. Quote it then. Lol.

Phatguysrule said:
Your link says that during the housing first program it was successful. It saved them a ton of money and nearly eradicated homelessness. Until they stopped doing it.
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when resources are given away for free, they run out:


“In the years that came after the celebrations of 2015, officials would declare a state of emergency around Pioneer Park and The Road Home’s downtown shelter and pour tens of millions of dollars into Operation Rio Grande, an all-out attack on lawlessness in the neighborhood. They would also spend $67 million on a new homeless resource system to address a problem very much alive and well in the community.

“I don’t think we’ve ever said that we met functional zero. There was a push on veteran homelessness, I think, that was pretty close to that,” said Jonathan Hardy of the Department of Workforce Services. “But as far as our chronically homeless, we’ve never gotten there.””
 
Phatguysrule said:
That link is bullshit. Housing first includes treatment and social workers.

It's making bullshit arguments with are false about the tenets of housing first. Which were proven in the 10 years of offering housing, services, and treatment to the homeless in slc. Which even conservative estimates show saved them 50% over the homeless population.
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okay. Show me? I see pages of these links and articles. I just posted another one. But i will not post them all. Its pretty obvious with some research, the models have significant faults.
 
BlazerBender said:
No it does not. Quote it then. Lol.



when resources are given away for free, they run out:


“In the years that came after the celebrations of 2015, officials would declare a state of emergency around Pioneer Park and The Road Home’s downtown shelter and pour tens of millions of dollars into Operation Rio Grande, an all-out attack on lawlessness in the neighborhood. They would also spend $67 million on a new homeless resource system to address a problem very much alive and well in the community.

“I don’t think we’ve ever said that we met functional zero. There was a push on veteran homelessness, I think, that was pretty close to that,” said Jonathan Hardy of the Department of Workforce Services. “But as far as our chronically homeless, we’ve never gotten there.””
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I did quote it. The program ended in 2015. Of course things got worse after the program ended.

Now they spend a lot more than they did during the program.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I did quote it. The program ended in 2015. Of course things got worse after the program ended.

Now they spend a lot more than they did during the program.
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Read it again. That what does not say what you claim. If it does, bolden the exact portion.
 
BlazerBender said:
because they don't have the funding to keep it going. Its finite because of finite resources.
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Lol, you're not doing the math. The cost per person was $8k per year per person, at most.

The homeless are now costing them well over $30k per person
 
Phatguysrule said:
Do the math. What does that work to per year per person?
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why does that matter? Resources are not infinite.
You are changing the goalposts now. The funding cant be infinite. They had to stop. And then there are articles saying the people housed in slc are still in need of mental help etc. nothing addressed to actually help the person.
 
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