Time to light the fuse and blow this sucker up?

[EL PRESIDENTE]

What? When have the Blazers ever absorbed a player into their cap room?

I'm talking about the kind of deal that the Clippers made for Camby where all they had to do was surrender a future second round pick to Denver.

Imaginary Cap Space. We had it, didn't use it well. No trades, just signed Hedo.

 

[illmatic99]

Where's Trader Bob when we need him?

I would take him here in a second. That Pippen deal he pulled off solidified him as a great GM in my mind.

Hell, I'd take KP back with a smile. He at least had some sort of conviction and plan when he was GM. Cho just seems dazed and confused, sorta like Nate.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

KP is the one who fucked this team up. Trading ZBO for his grand scheme of imaginary cap space did more damage than any knee injuries.

well, maybe not that far. but almost.

 

[craigehlo]

Cho just seems dazed and confused, sorta like Nate.

I can't even remember the last time I heard Cho in the media.

 

[Minstrel]

what does it take for you, you enjoy pain watching this team?

I never believe in blowing it up. I think the quickest path to a championship-caliber team (short of pure luck, which you can't plan for) is building from what the team has. In this case, what it has is Batum, Aldridge and Matthews. If the team can trade older players like Miller, Camby and/or Przybilla for a younger player(s), great. But I don't think a firesale of everyone on the team is productive.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Imaginary Cap Space. We had it, didn't use it well. No trades, just signed Hedo.

That doesn't change the fact that doing a lopsided trade is a legal move with cap space under the current CBA ... I wasn't making a judgement about what is best.

 

[julius]

trader Bob may have traded for Pippen, but the issue is that the team he traded Pippen onto, actually had a solid core. This team doesn't. Not only that, there ain't a Pippen out there (or better than Pippen).

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I never believe in blowing it up. I think the quickest path to a championship-caliber team (short of pure luck, which you can't plan for) is building from what the team has. In this case, what it has is Batum, Aldridge and Matthews. If the team can trade older players like Miller, Camby and/or Przybilla for a younger player(s), great. But I don't think a firesale of everyone on the team is productive.

+1.

blowing it up never works. its what loser teams do.

You only win rings by trading for SUPERSTARS.

 

[Nikolokolus]

+1.

blowing it up never works. its what loser teams do.

You only win rings by trading for SUPERSTARS.

That only works if you are the Celtics or the Lakers.

 

[illmatic99]

trader Bob may have traded for Pippen, but the issue is that the team he traded Pippen onto, actually had a solid core. This team doesn't. Not only that, there ain't a Pippen out there (or better than Pippen).

Regardless, it's his ingenuity and ability to make the most of his resources (PA) that I was referring to, moreso than the actual players involved in the trade. KP, to an extent, knew how to use PA's $$$ to his advantage. Unless PA has completely shut down the bank on Cho (which I don't believe for a second), I want to see/hear something from him that tells us where we're headed this season and in our near future, and I want him to act upon it.

 

[Nate Dogg]

who is gonna trade for roy or la?

who is gonna play center if you trade camby or pryz?

who is gonna play pg if you trade miller????

rudy, batum, mills, johnson are the only options or draft picks/injury exceptions

My thoughts exactly. Rudy is having another flaky year, mills is #2 on the PG depth chart, Batum is putting okay stats, and Johnson is a rookie. I think we should trade Rudy or Johnson.

 

[MickZagger]

My thoughts exactly. Rudy is having another flaky year, mills is #2 on the PG depth chart, Batum is putting okay stats, and Johnson is a rookie. I think we should trade Rudy or Johnson.

That will net us.....Luther Head? I mean c'mon seriously we need impact players at this point.

 

[craigehlo]

again... they cant blow it up.

who is gonna trade for roy or la?

who is gonna play center if you trade camby or pryz?

who is gonna play pg if you trade miller????

rudy, batum, mills, johnson are the only options or draft picks/injury exceptions

Who cares? It's time to head for the draft.

For the record, LMA can play center if we can land a PF like Landry that actually bangs in the paint.

 

[huevonkiller]

I never believe in blowing it up. I think the quickest path to a championship-caliber team (short of pure luck, which you can't plan for) is building from what the team has. In this case, what it has is Batum, Aldridge and Matthews. If the team can trade older players like Miller, Camby and/or Przybilla for a younger player(s), great. But I don't think a firesale of everyone on the team is productive.

What about cap room?

I'm curious to know your plan, if you can be more specific. I think you have the general premise, though.

 

[Minstrel]

What about cap room?

I'm curious to know your plan, if you can be more specific. I think you have the general premise, though.

Honestly, outside of the Lakers and Miami, I've really never seen a team use cap room to build a championship-caliber team. Those two teams made the two big hauls of the decade (Shaq for LA, James and Bosh for Miami), but outside of that, the idea of clearing cap room to make big free agent strikes is generally a losing proposition. Even the Knicks, who did land a star, came up way short of creating a championship nucleus. One of the main reasons for that is that stars can generally get the most money to stay home, which creates massive inertia against switching teams.

I don't have a brand new blueprint...from what I've seen, you need a little luck to land your franchise player or players, either from the draft or from trades. But tanking for a top pick also doesn't tend to work because very few top prospects actually end up franchise players.

The post-Shaq Lakers are a good example of why you don't blow it up. That team was good but not great. They were good enough to make the playoffs and challenge to win a series. One could have argued, "Is that the kind of okay-ness you want? Trade Kobe for top draft picks, maybe a good young player, dump big contracts and start over." Instead, they built based on what they had and were ready to take advantage of the opportunity that presented itself in Pau Gasol.

Of course, that's a best-case...but my main conclusion is this: teams almost never go from terrible/bad to great in one or two off-seasons due to a top draft pick or a major free agent acquisition. Teams much more commonly move from bad to mediocre to good to great. There are exceptions, but generally you're closer to title-caliber when you're mediocre or good than you are when you're bad, even if bad comes with cap space or a top pick. So moving down that scale is rarely, if ever, productive. Most teams who end up bad stay there for quite a while.

I want the Blazers to operate as they have the past few years: if a trade emerges that creates more value (net present value, to steal a concept from Ed O), do it. Never make a trade with the intention of getting worse in the short-term. Weighting that net present value towards more of it being in the future is fine, but it should only be a mild lean...not a "destroy all present value in the hopes of landing a lot of value down the line."

 

[huevonkiller]

That's a great explanation, I can't disagree there. I think teams need to do whatever they can to get a real superstar, not just Melo level but a little higher than that (luck plays a factor). Someone at least like a healthy Brandon Roy or Dwight Howard, whatever, then suffer a few years maybe but build around them.

The Celtics this past season didn't have a superstar at all, but they lucked into Rondo through the draft and traded for their other guys. So the trend you mention still stands.

 

[RR7]

They had Pierce, who was their franchise guy. Not that that disputes much, but it does support what he is saying in that, Boston could have held on to Jefferson and rondo, and built around the two of them. And Green, Telfair, etc. And they could have dumped Pierce. Maybe that situation nets them a title, if somehow without playing around superstars, Rondo becomes the same player that he is, and the trade of Pierce nets another stud, but what they did got them a title. I prefer hanging on to that than thinking blow it all up,a nd have Wesley Matthews and Batum be the only ones left. Sorry, that's a damn ugly team.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I never believe in blowing it up. I think the quickest path to a championship-caliber team (short of pure luck, which you can't plan for) is building from what the team has. In this case, what it has is Batum, Aldridge and Matthews. If the team can trade older players like Miller, Camby and/or Przybilla for a younger player(s), great. But I don't think a firesale of everyone on the team is productive.

I agree; Batum, Aldridge and Matthews should all have 6 or 7 good years in them; why start tanking to try to find different young players?

 

[LameR]

Starting PG is the problem. Miller is fine but he's old and doesn't mesh well with our "franchise".

Miller is one of the few bright spots of this year.

 

[Blazinaway]

"Blowing it up" to me means figuring out the guys you want to keep and then moving anyone else you can to build for the next several years. As much as I like Camby and Miller this means moving them as they are not part of the future. Of course I'm not suggesting moving them at any cost, but if you can do solid trades you do them and don't worry about this season, you look to the future.

 

[hasoos]

Not necessarily "blow it up", just trade in our bottle rocket for one that isn't broken. Even if it means we throw in our collection of m80's.

We don't have any M80's. We have a bunch of "Black Cat Firecrackers". You know, the ones that you light, and you don't know if they are going to go off?

 

[hasoos]

again... they cant blow it up.

who is gonna trade for roy or la?

who is gonna play center if you trade camby or pryz?

who is gonna play pg if you trade miller????

rudy, batum, mills, johnson are the only options or draft picks/injury exceptions

Losing with those players gives you the same record as losing without them. The only way I see out for Portland with Roy's contract in tow, I hate to say this, is the draft. As long as Roy's contract is one the books the Blazers will be hamstrung for deals. That means the only way to get new players is by stinking it up and drafting good. Now since we know that the only way out is the draft, and since Miller, Camby, and Joel will most likely not be with us for some future playoff run, we might as well get rid of them in order to try to rebuild faster.