Time to rebuild?

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I just don't think he's done enough. He's a great player on an LA team that has won two championships with his help. I just don't think he sets the league on fire like Garnett did when he was younger, or Duncan, or Malone.

Agreed. He's more of a complimentary player on that team. But people tend to judge players purely on whether or not they have a ring, and I think Gasol falls into that category.

But debating top players is an idiotic thing to do. Kids today don't know the players of the past and middle age people don't know the NBA players before their time... Also, top players have to be judged by more than stats. Baylor was probably the greatest NBA PF (as rated by the experts), but he had to sacrifice so much of his game as he played on immensely talented teams. In fact, on all-tome greats list done by NBA players he often makes the top 3 and usually the top 5. But unless one had seen him play, they don't get it.

And that's why MickZagger, and others, make meaningless debates- they simply don't know. Nobody really does. It's funny, actually.

 

[MickZagger]

I just don't think he's done enough. He's a great player on an LA team that has won two championships with his help. I just don't think he sets the league on fire like Garnett did when he was younger, or Duncan, or Malone.

I think he's the most complete 4 in the game right now. I wouldn't of had him on my list until this past June. That sealed a top 5 spot in my book.

 

[MickZagger]

Agreed. He's more of a complimentary player on that team. But people tend to judge players purely on whether or not they have a ring, and I think Gasol falls into that category.

But debating top players is an idiotic thing to do. Kids today don't know the players of the past and middle age people don't know the NBA players before their time... Also, top players have to be judged by more than stats. Baylor was probably the greatest NBA PF (as rated by the experts), but he had to sacrifice so much of his game as he played on immensely talented teams. In fact, on all-tome greats list done by NBA players he often makes the top 3 and usually the top 5. But unless one had seen him play, they don't get it.

And that's why MickZagger, and others, make meaningless debates- they simply don't know. Nobody really does. It's funny, actually.

Baylor wasn't a PF.

How old are you anyway? Just curious.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Elgin Baylor was not a power forward. While the forward and guard spots had not been given separate designations back when he played (just guards and forwards, not point guards, shooting guards, small forwards and power forwards), Baylor neither played like what has been come to be known as a power forward nor was he sized like one. He was 6'5'' and he was a high-flying wing. Elgin Baylor was a really, really great player but he belongs in the small forward discussion.

That was his position then. Today, he'd be a SF or even SG as players are taller. He and Oscar are the two best players I ever saw. In fact, my top 5 of all time (not in order) are Robertson, Baylor, Jordan, Chamberlain, Magic

 

[MickZagger]

That was his position then. Today, he'd be a SF or even SG as players are taller. He and Oscar are the two best players I ever saw. In fact, my top 5 of all time (not in order) are Robertson, Baylor, Jordan, Chamberlain, Magic

How old were you in mid-60's when Baylor was taking the league by storm?

 

[Natebishop3]

I think he's the most complete 4 in the game right now. I wouldn't of had him on my list until this past June. That sealed a top 5 spot in my book.

I would agree that he is probably the best four in the game right now. I'm not sure if he's done enough to warrant the HOF though. His time in Memphis was good, but not great. His numbers were solid, but not much better than LMA's. His time in LA has been great, but it's only been 2.5 years. I need more proof from him that he deserves a HOF nod. Is he a great player, or is he playing on a great team?

 

[Minstrel]

That was his position then.

There was no power forward position then. There was only "forward" of which Baylor was one. "Power forward" and "small forward" are more modern concepts and Baylor fits the small forward concept.

He and Oscar are the two best players I ever saw. In fact, my top 5 of all time (not in order) are Robertson, Baylor, Jordan, Chamberlain, Magic

Putting Baylor ahead of Jordan, Chamberlain or Magic (or various other players, like Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Russell or Shaq) is pretty nuts, IMO. But I agree that Robertson is on the short list of greatest player of all-time candidates.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Elgin Baylor ...... was a high-flying wing. Elgin Baylor was a really, really great player.....

During his early career it wasn't against the rules for offensive basket interference and every so often he'd jump well above the rim and guide the ball in, taking away two points from a team mate. The man was a gazelle.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

There was no power forward position then. There was only "forward" of which Baylor was one. "Power forward" and "small forward" are more modern concepts and Baylor fits the small forward concept.



Putting Baylor ahead of Jordan, Chamberlain or Magic (or various other players, like Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon, Russell or Shaq) is pretty nuts, IMO. But I agree that Robertson is on the short list of greatest player of all-time candidates.

That's true, and a very good point. I just see his name more on lists of PF's more than SF's. As to a top 5 list, it's very hard to do. I can't disagree with your as well.

 

[MickZagger]

Prophet,

How old are you?

Most likely not old enough to remember Baylor. So your making that shit up and going to ignore me.

lol, I know your M.O.

 

[Webster's Dictionary]

Back to the topic at hand, for the first time I really feel like we should take what we can get and start over. I'm usually an optimist but right now I can't help but feel like Brandon will never be more than a good jump shooter again, and a liability on defense.

I hope Greg has some healthy games, but counting on him is just silly.

Lamarcus is over paid. He's a good player, but he doesn't have the killer instinct to be counted on.

I just can't see this team going anywhere. I love Brandon, I've loved this group of players, but I just can't see it happening.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Prophet,

How old are you?

Most likely not old enough to remember Baylor. So your making that shit up and going to ignore me.

lol, I know your M.O.

You've become a troll. I have no use to be drawn into some idiotic child's game. Consider going away.

 

[MickZagger]

You've become a troll. I have no use to be drawn into some idiotic child's game. Consider going away.

hahahhaha

Cause your full of shit. You bashed me for being too young to remember those guys game. You aren't old enough to watch Baylor play.

Trollish behavior indeed.

 

[Natebishop3]

Back to the topic at hand, for the first time I really feel like we should take what we can get and start over. I'm usually an optimist but right now I can't help but feel like Brandon will never be more than a good jump shooter again, and a liability on defense.

I hope Greg has some healthy games, but counting on him is just silly.

Lamarcus is over paid. He's a good player, but he doesn't have the killer instinct to be counted on.

I just can't see this team going anywhere. I love Brandon, I've loved this group of players, but I just can't see it happening.

I think Aldridge will always be a borderline All-Star. He isn't a first option scorer. Losing Roy is a major blow to our future. He could still resurrect his career by changing his game, but that's a big if. Oden is still a huge question mark. I don't want to believe that he's a bust, but we know so very little about his status. I think Nic has shown some real flashes, and Johnson has been encouraging. I think we need a change of coaching staff, and we could use some good news for once.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Back to the topic at hand, for the first time I really feel like we should take what we can get and start over. I'm usually an optimist but right now I can't help but feel like Brandon will never be more than a good jump shooter again, and a liability on defense.

I hope Greg has some healthy games, but counting on him is just silly.

Lamarcus is over paid. He's a good player, but he doesn't have the killer instinct to be counted on.

I just can't see this team going anywhere. I love Brandon, I've loved this group of players, but I just can't see it happening.

Agreed. My thoughts:

Roy- now that we hear tonight his knees are bone-on-bone, his top playing days seem to be over. Think of Barnard King or Alan Houston, who had similar situations. But we're stuck with his contract for 5 years. And if the new CBA calls for a hard cap, we're in deep trouble.

LA- While he's no player to build around, I still think he's a pretty good PF who wants to get better. He's fairly untradable with his salary, but that doesn't bother me.

Oden- Who knows? Maybe he can become the player we thought he would or maybe not. I'm concerned about his attitude and wonder sometimes if he wants to be here. But if he comes back and plays relatively well with no concerning injuries, we'll probably match any offer he gets and hold our breath.

Rest of the team- We have some decent talent. Maybe not title contender talent, but a playoff team most likely. Add a couple of good drafts and a nice trade or two and I am actually fairly optimistic.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think Aldridge will always be a borderline All-Star. He isn't a first option scorer. Losing Roy is a major blow to our future. He could still resurrect his career by changing his game, but that's a big if. Oden is still a huge question mark. I don't want to believe that he's a bust, but we know so very little about his status. I think Nic has shown some real flashes, and Johnson has been encouraging. I think we need a change of coaching staff, and we could use some good news for once.

I want to support Nate, but maybe it is just time for a change for change sake's. Some new direction and fresh ideas...

 

[MickZagger]

Prophet is in his 30's?

 

[Natebishop3]

I want to support Nate, but maybe it is just time for a change for change sake's. Some new direction and fresh ideas...

I think the team is tuning him out anyway.

 

[Shooter]

Back to the topic at hand, for the first time I really feel like we should take what we can get and start over. I'm usually an optimist but right now I can't help but feel like Brandon will never be more than a good jump shooter again, and a liability on defense.

I hope Greg has some healthy games, but counting on him is just silly.

Lamarcus is over paid. He's a good player, but he doesn't have the killer instinct to be counted on.

I just can't see this team going anywhere. I love Brandon, I've loved this group of players, but I just can't see it happening.

Amen. Anybody who saw Roy's performance in the first half last night saw his future. He's a very limited player when he's prevented from driving to the basket. Almost ordinary, in fact (and I'm shocked to say that). Brandon Roy has gone downhill faster than any player I can ever remember.

 

[Wheels]

Someone insert a random stupid ass picture for me

 

[Wheels]

Wait I might have figured it out!!!

 

[Natebishop3]

Amen. Anybody who saw Roy's performance in the first half last night saw his future. He's a very limited player when he's prevented from driving to the basket. Almost ordinary, in fact (and I'm shocked to say that). Brandon Roy has gone downhill faster than any player I can ever remember.

Short memory. We've seen this before. Tracy McGrady, Penny Hardaway, and Allan Houston come to mind. I see Roy as another Vince Carter, post Half-Man-Half-Amazing. Vince went from a slasher/dunker to a jump shooter and post up guy. Obviously he's not the star that he once was, but he's still an effective scorer. Hopefully Roy can make a similar evolution.

 

[Shooter]

Short memory. We've seen this before. Tracy McGrady, Penny Hardaway, and Allan Houston come to mind. I see Roy as another Vince Carter, post Half-Man-Half-Amazing. Vince went from a slasher/dunker to a jump shooter and post up guy. Obviously he's not the star that he once was, but he's still an effective scorer. Hopefully Roy can make a similar evolution.

Whatever. I'm too depressed to argue.

 

[RoyToy]

For everyone panicking over Roy and his future, this is a good example of what I can see his game looking like:



He scored 40pts in that game and he did a lot of work as usual with his sweet jumper. When I watch that I don't see a whole lot that needed a ton of athleticism. I can see him still being very effective in the future. It's not like he's dead.

And while he may end up losing athleticism(if it hasn't happened already), I'm not sure if right now is the right time to judge him on that. Any player that is in pain won't be as athletic, and by all accounts Roy has had his knee drained twice and it's beyond troublesome at this point. I'd like to see what he looks like pain free before I really start worrying.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Someone insert a random stupid ass picture for me

I kid I kid

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Someone insert a random stupid ass picture for me

 

[Wheels]

I kid I kid

lmfao!!! I wish this was a GIF

 

[Wheels]

for some reason I am getting the red x while on my work compy but from the details in the quote I think I know what the pic is

 

[Denny Crane]

Gentlemen, we can rebuild him.

[video=youtube;K7zNY0I5JNI]