Tom Penn fired?

[axs88]

he's not.

[/inisider]

Wow, you're the new PapaG. 1200 posts since February... congratulations.

IMAGINARY CAP SPACE!!!!

 

[BGrantFan]

Just to play devil's advocate, why is the fact that KP did the same thing that any other GM did (draft Oden) any kind of defense? Is a mistake that other people would have made any less of a mistake? But more to the point, if he's all that special, shouldn't he be doing things that are uncommonly right instead of commonly wrong?

Just to play devil's advocate to the devil's advocate, who is to say that drafting Oden was a mistake? Unless I missed the Sonics/Thunder winning a title since they drafted Durant, I'd say it's still pretty early in the players' respective careers to hold anyone accountable for picking Oden.

 

[OddEnormous]

Just to play devil's advocate, why is the fact that KP did the same thing that any other GM did (draft Oden) any kind of defense? Is a mistake that other people would have made any less of a mistake? But more to the point, if he's all that special, shouldn't he be doing things that are uncommonly right instead of commonly wrong?

No offense but....

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Wow, you're the new PapaG. 1200 posts since February... congratulations.

IMAGINARY CAP SPACE!!!!

to be fair, about 400 of those posts are just "cockboy"

 

[MickZagger]

he was not an underachiever. quite the opposite.

What we got from it was nothing. I called for a firing at that time, it just took time for the shit of that trade to materialize onto itself.

He was an underachiever. He started to fall in love with the outside shot and for the supposed best player on the team he didn't lead them anywhere except filling the locker room with drama.

 

[maxiep]

Alright here is the rumor I heard . . . Penn's agent used information that Penn had a pending GM offer with Minny when negotiating his promotion. Vulcan has since learned that Penn never had anything close to a offer from Minny . . . and thus the firing.

If true, then PA's guys didn't do their due diligence. It's their fault. Hell, KP told Ainge that Telfair had great upside. Does Ainge come after KP and blame him for the crap sandwich he ate while we netted the ROY?

 

[southnc]

This is definitely NOT good.

This dude (Penn) has substantial inside knowledge of the organization's plans, including draft and FA info on critical players, etc.

Letting him go like that could harm the organization's strategic direction. It would have been better for a cleaner exit with mutual understanding, so that the team's interests are protected - at least until after this critical FA summer.

Something REALLY bad must have happened for such a dramatic (and risky) move as this.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

If true, then PA's guys didn't do their due diligence. It's their fault. Hell, KP told Ainge that Telfair had great upside. Does Ainge come after KP and blame him for the crap sandwich he ate while we netted the ROY?

I don't agree with that. I don't believe anyone who negotiates in good faith expects the other side to flat out lie. If an agent flat out lies during negotiations and it is discovered, then that agent isn't worth a nickle to any of his clients. He has no credibility.

Obviously the example you give is a subjective opinion vs. representing that someone has a written deal on the table. But forget all that, an agent who flat out lies during negotations is plain and simple not a good agent.

To top it off, the agent drags in KP'sname because he represents him. That's great agent . . . you have one more deal to negotaite with the Blazers with Pritchard and he goes ahead and throws KP's name into this saga and discloses the negotations (or lack there of) going on in that negotations. And then he sells all this to Canzano who bites hook line and sinker.

That is one low class agent, IMO.

 

[maxiep]

sure, he still will be good...but I don't think ZBO really would have held him back all that much like people were saying.

"Addition by subtraction" really didn't work out.

It took three teams at the bottom of the barrel record wise (Blazers, Knicks, Clippers) trading him for garbage for him to realize his off court actions were hurting him. It's also a contract year for him. Who knows if we would have ever seen this "good Zach" without those circumstances?

 

[maxiep]

I don't agree with that. I don't believe anyone who negotiates in good faith expects the other side to flat out lie. If an agent flat out lies during negotiations and it is discovered, then that agent isn't worth a nickle to any of his clients. He has no credibility.

Obviously the example you give is a subjective opinion vs. representing that someone has a written deal on the table. But forget all that, an agent who flat out lies during negotations is plain and simple not a good agent.

To top it off, the agent drags in KP'sname because he represents him. That's great agent . . . you have one more deal to negotaite with the Blazers with Pritchard and he goes ahead and throws KP's name into this saga and discloses the negotations (or lack there of) going on in that negotations. And then he sells all this to Canzano who bites hook line and sinker.

That is one low class agent, IMO.

How hard is it to call Minnesota? I'm guessing Paul Allen has Glen Taylor's phone number somewhere. The bottom line is that you only promote Tom Penn if you think he's deserving. Otherwise you let him go.

The fault lies with PA and Vulcan. Time after time they've proven themselves to be shitty negotiators.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

It took three teams at the bottom of the barrel record wise (Blazers, Knicks, Clippers) trading him for garbage for him to realize his off court actions were hurting him. It's also a contract year for him. Who knows if we would have ever seen this "good Zach" without those circumstances?

Same ZBO. Its just the first time he was surrounded with talent.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

He was an underachiever. He started to fall in love with the outside shot and for the supposed best player on the team he didn't lead them anywhere except filling the locker room with drama.

Underacheivers don't average 20/11. Unless you think he is a 25/15 player. Zach's always been a guy who seems to do more than should be capable given his physical abilities.



the thing is, he's not supposed to be the "best player" on a team. He's a good player who can score and hustle. He is not a franchise player.

 

[maxiep]

Same ZBO. Its just the first time he was surrounded with talent.

We'll agree to disagree. He's playing 15-20 lbs lighter right now than any time with the Blazers. The not drinking is clearly making him a better teammate. Before, Zach was thought of as a joke by his teammates.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

We'll agree to disagree. He's playing 15-20 lbs lighter right now than any time with the Blazers. The not drinking is clearly making him a better teammate. Before, Zach was thought of as a joke by his teammates.

The only thing different is that he has teammates that are actually better now. None of his other teams really did.

 

[BGrantFan]

I don't agree with that. I don't believe anyone who negotiates in good faith expects the other side to flat out lie. If an agent flat out lies during negotiations and it is discovered, then that agent isn't worth a nickle to any of his clients. He has no credibility.

Obviously the example you give is a subjective opinion vs. representing that someone has a written deal on the table. But forget all that, an agent who flat out lies during negotations is plain and simple not a good agent.

To top it off, the agent drags in KP'sname because he represents him. That's great agent . . . you have one more deal to negotaite with the Blazers with Pritchard and he goes ahead and throws KP's name into this saga and discloses the negotations (or lack there of) going on in that negotations. And then he sells all this to Canzano who bites hook line and sinker.

That is one low class agent, IMO.

The Oregonian has the actual documents that prove Minnesota made an offer. So, it's off to the next conspiracy theory on this firing that makes now sense at all.

 

[MickZagger]

Underacheivers don't average 20/11. Unless you think he is a 25/15 player. Zach's always been a guy who seems to do more than should be capable given his physical abilities.



the thing is, he's not supposed to be the "best player" on a team. He's a good player who can score and hustle. He is not a franchise player.

Those stats are a mirage. There's always been players that fill stat sheet, but for some reason that players team always sucks. Case in point, Zach Randolph. He wouldn't know what to do on an actual team that can playoffs with a fighting chance. Some players just aren't winners, he's a classic example.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Those stats are a mirage. There's always been players that fill stat sheet, but for some reason that players team always sucks. Case in point, Zach Randolph. He wouldn't know what to do on an actual team that can playoffs with a fighting chance. Some players just aren't winners, he's a classic example.

well, he's doing better now. now that he has better teammates around him. guys he can actually pass to.

He will basically fill your need offensively.

 

[BGrantFan]

To top it off, the agent drags in KP'sname because he represents him. That's great agent . . . you have one more deal to negotaite with the Blazers with Pritchard and he goes ahead and throws KP's name into this saga and discloses the negotations (or lack there of) going on in that negotations. And then he sells all this to Canzano who bites hook line and sinker.

That is one low class agent, IMO.

That's a hell of an agent, IMO. He has a GM regarded as one of the best in the NBA the past 4 years who has yet to get an extension. He only goes to the media when another client of his, who also happens to be the previous mentioned GM's right-hand man, is fired out of the blue, and with no real reason given to him.

If I was an agent, and one of my clients was just fired while working alongside another client of mine, you're damn straight I'd use all information that I have to prove the Penn did not lie about receiving an offer. Since he is still allegedly negotiating KP's extension, it would makes sense to me to go public to try and get some leverage from the public.

Vulcan has fucked over the Blazer fan base before; Pritchard has not.

 

[BGrantFan]

Did I miss Memphis qualifying for the playoffs? Randolph is what he's always been. A very good offensive player/rebounder on a poor to average team.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Did I miss Memphis qualifying for the playoffs? Randolph is what he's always been. A very good offensive player/rebounder on a poor to average team.

And we gave that away for essentially nothing. Oddly enough, what are Portland's main weaknesses right now? Points in the paint and rebounding.



Therefore, Tom Penn is fired.

 

[BGrantFan]

And we gave that away for essentially nothing. Oddly enough, what are Portland's main weaknesses right now? Points in the paint and rebounding.



Therefore, Tom Penn is fired.

That doesn't make any sense. They fire Tom Penn now for a trade made four years ago? One of the least plausible conspiracy theories I've read today on the few boards I frequent.

 

[maxiep]

The only thing different is that he has teammates that are actually better now. None of his other teams really did.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Many posters who were at O-Live can tell you that I supported Zach when he was here, but it doesn't take Red Auerbach to see we became more of a team after he was traded. Better ball movement, better defense, better chemistry.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

That doesn't make any sense. They fire Tom Penn now for a trade made four years ago? One of the least plausible conspiracy theories I've read today on the few boards I frequent.

The job of Tom Penn was to be a "cap" genius. The thought here is that the trade that took place was in the name of "cap space" which had been proven to be essentially useless and overrated. Tom Penn oversold the importance of it, since you really can't value cap space if you do not know the FA market at that time and team make-up....so it was imaginary whereas Penn pushed it as something tangible.

 

[maxiep]

The job of Tom Penn was to be a "cap" genius. The thought here is that the trade that took place was in the name of "cap space" which had been proven to be essentially useless and overrated. Tom Penn oversold the importance of it, since you really can't value cap space if you do not know the FA market at that time and team make-up....so it was imaginary whereas Penn pushed it as something tangible.

Tom Penn created the cap space; it wasn't used.

Do you blame farmers for growing too much produce that gets thrown away because it's not used?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Many posters who were at O-Live can tell you that I supported Zach when he was here, but it doesn't take Red Auerbach to see we became more of a team after he was traded. Better ball movement, better defense, better chemistry.

Yes, because we have better, more experienced players who have been together a few years.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Tom Penn created the cap space; it wasn't used.

Do you blame farmers for growing too much produce that gets thrown away because it's not used?

Him creating cap space too far in the future was a failure.

 

[maxiep]

Yes, because we have better, more experienced players who have been together a few years.

Nice try, but wrong. The improvement was immediate. It really was addition by subtraction.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Tom Penn created the cap space; it wasn't used.

Do you blame farmers for growing too much produce that gets thrown away because it's not used?

Him creating cap space too far in the future was a failure. It was unnecessary.

 

[maxiep]

Him creating cap space too far in the future was a failure.

That's a silly argument. You have to look at the entire roster to figure out where you can gain cap space. We were forced to do it then because to do it earlier would have resulted in giving up too much young talent. We couldn't hold it longer because of the re-signings of Roy and Aldridge.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

That's a silly argument. You have to look at the entire roster to figure out where you can gain cap space. We were forced to do it then because to do it earlier would have resulted in giving up too much young talent. We couldn't hold it longer because of the re-signings of Roy and Aldridge.

not forced to do anything. you can't predict the situation 2 years in the future. that's not how championship teams are built.

As I stated on draft day back then, there was no need to rush that shit of a trade through.