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blazerkor said:
Um yeah... OK. That's not a demonstrably better deal in any way shape or form. If CJ is so valuable why do we have to trade back in the draft to acquire a guy who plays behind Glen Robinson III when everyone is healthy? Don't get me wrong, I like Thybulle as a throw in, he shoots well and defends well against second stringers but the idea of the trade is that for us Josh Richardson is an upgrade at the wing over CJ because he is a great defender and a guy who knows his role and will take an open three when someone like Dame sets him up with one... instead of looking at that open three and then putting the ball on the floor to go one on one with a defender that for some reason CJ always wants to give time to recover. Harris is there because he fills another need for us and like CJ is overpaid, so he also makes the trade work as far as salary cap goes. If the Sixers would throw in Thybulle I'd be cool with it and if we had to trade back 5 spots I guess I'd be cool with that too. If they didn't want to include Thybulle but instead wanted to give us the 21st pick that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. We would still be improving our defense immensely and we wouldn't be losing any outside shooting.

The idea is that Gary slips into CJ's spot, Richardson slips into Ariza's spot, Harris sends Zach to the bench effectively taking Melo's spot and thus giving us our full MLE to get another rotation player or two. Our front line then has better scoring at the 4 and better defense everywhere. We are also deeper with or without Thybulle being included but like I said, if we can get him great. Also that CJ/Tobias comparison is whack you have some of those stats from career numbers and others from this season but however you got them they're not an accurate representation. Look at this season's numbers because that is where these guys are at right now. Tobias shoots a percentage point worse from three and a couple percentage points better overall, he gets like an assist less than CJ and a couple more boards per game but that would likely be better if he was playing defense at the 4 instead of at SF like he was this season. One good thing that you're not remembering about both Harris and Richardson is that even though they usually just play their respective roles, both can get their own shot... just remember when Richardson went off on CJ in the bubble and watch video on Harris.
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I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree but I do think it is a demonstrably better deal. I guess I’m thinking more beyond want happens after this year. I guess value Thybulle’s potential a lot more than you do, he’s already shown greater defensive promise than Little after year 1. He was a rookie, and PHI was playing seeding games, so I don’t hold that against him one bit. And I do think Richardson would be good for us, which is the thing, you’re going to be stuck trying to re-sign Trent and Richardson at the same time. How much is Richardson going to make? If he averages 17 again like his year in Miami on solid efficiency, I expect him to make north of $16m. I don’t know if you keep Richardson beyond this season if that’s the case. If you do know, and maybe you’re right and I’m wrong, who knows.

With Thybulle included, I guarantee that I lock up another guy at the wing position for the next 6-8 years potentially with Little and Trent (and hopefully another wing in this year’s draft) who all can be solid to elite 3 and D guys to tinker with like in a similar situation that the Hawks are in with Heurter, Reddish, and Hunter. I think a prime Thybulle is going to be that good on defense. He wouldn’t be a throw in, PHI really see him as part of their future.

I did preface my CJ/Tobias thought with “I know I can depend on him in the playoffs most of the time”, that’s why I only looked at playoff stats. If you want to look at this year’s playoffs, CJ averaged 23.2/5.8/3.2 on .444/.371/.682 in 5 games and Harris averaged 15.8/9.5/4.0 on .383/.133/.789 in 4 games. I can’t make this up man lol, it’s just BasketballReference. While I do care about the regular season, I’d much rather my player play better in the playoffs than the regular season. If the players are close enough in value during the regular season that we are having a debate about it but one plays marginally better in the playoffs than in the regular season and one plays significantly worse than in the regular season—if I’m trading the marginally better one, I expect more in return.

Sorry if I ruffled feathers man. Was just a thought.
 
pougie said:
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree but I do think it is a demonstrably better deal. I guess I’m thinking more beyond want happens after this year. I guess value Thybulle’s potential a lot more than you do, he’s already shown greater defensive promise than Little after year 1. He was a rookie, and PHI was playing seeding games, so I don’t hold that against him one bit. And I do think Richardson would be good for us, which is the thing, you’re going to be stuck trying to re-sign Trent and Richardson at the same time. How much is Richardson going to make? If he averages 17 again like his year in Miami on solid efficiency, I expect him to make north of $16m. I don’t know if you keep Richardson beyond this season if that’s the case. If you do know, and maybe you’re right and I’m wrong, who knows.

With Thybulle included, I guarantee that I lock up another guy at the wing position for the next 6-8 years potentially with Little and Trent (and hopefully another wing in this year’s draft) who all can be solid to elite 3 and D guys to tinker with like in a similar situation that the Hawks are in with Heurter, Reddish, and Hunter. I think a prime Thybulle is going to be that good on defense. He wouldn’t be a throw in, PHI really see him as part of their future.

I did preface my CJ/Tobias thought with “I know I can depend on him in the playoffs most of the time”, that’s why I only looked at playoff stats. If you want to look at this year’s playoffs, CJ averaged 23.2/5.8/3.2 on .444/.371/.682 in 5 games and Harris averaged 15.8/9.5/4.0 on .383/.133/.789 in 4 games. I can’t make this up man lol, it’s just BasketballReference. While I do care about the regular season, I’d much rather my player play better in the playoffs than the regular season. If the players are close enough in value during the regular season that we are having a debate about it but one plays marginally better in the playoffs than in the regular season and one plays significantly worse than in the regular season—if I’m trading the marginally better one, I expect more in return.

Sorry if I ruffled feathers man. Was just a thought.
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My feathers weren't ruffled at all sir, I just didn't agree with you completely, that's all but I do respect your opinion. Oh and those playoff numbers are obviously legit and I do get where you're coming from on that.
 
The only trades the Blazers should be looking at is to move up in the draft to grab Devin Vassell, Issac Okoro or Aaron Nesmith. I'm assuming all of them would be gone by 16. I'd give up the 16, a top 3 protected pick in 2021 and any of young players aside from Trent. We need to be developing the SF of the future ASAP. All of those dudes bring a different, but needed skill sets to the team.
 
Hoopguru said:
Way to much for Simmons, imo. Philly would jump at that trade.
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If that's all it took, I would do it so quick so they don't realize what they just did.

Mediocre Man said:
I would love to see if Ben Simmons could be had for a package surrounding CJ and Collins with multiple draft picks going to Philly
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let it be on record, i have been saying this for approximately 2.5 yrs now.
 
illmatic99 said:
If that's all it took, I would do it so quick so they don't realize what they just did.


let it be on record, i have been saying this for approximately 2.5 yrs now.
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switch out Collins for Simons and it gets more appealing to me.
 
HailBlazers said:
How do we get Otto Porter
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maybe after a buy out, but contractually matching anything has to include cj. sign and trade whiteside to his old contract price? no organizatiom will IMHO. could have traded him anytime straight up last season but it would have meant tanking and Dame would not have been happy.
 
craigehlo said:
The only trades the Blazers should be looking at is to move up in the draft to grab Devin Vassell, Issac Okoro or Aaron Nesmith. I'm assuming all of them would be gone by 16. I'd give up the 16, a top 3 protected pick in 2021 and any of young players aside from Trent. We need to be developing the SF of the future ASAP. All of those dudes bring a different, but needed skill sets to the team.
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We are already developing Little to be the SF of the future. But yeah we still could use another wing
 
Simmons,Hood and Ariza For Aaron Gordon. Unlikely hood will have any value this year other than as an expiring. Ariza maybe a valuable defender,but at his age, I deem it unlikely he gets another contract with us unless for vet minimum. Gordon’s 3pt shooting hasn’t been consistent enough yet, but, his playmaking from the 4 is closer to Blake Griffin then not. Only 24 and under contract for the next two seasons. Coach Clifford has seen an improvement on the defensive side too. Versatile enough to handle duties at the 3 as well. Not in love with the player but might be a good fit and we get value out of the 2 expiring deals. As long as CJ is healthy Simmons is unlikely to be a significant cog and Trent’s emergence further hinders his development. Might take a draft pick to equalize the potential trade. For me it comes down to who helps make us the better team next year and the following. Follow up by resigning Melo and we seem stronger at the 3/4 after this move IMHO. Little Hezonja and Gabriel providing depth and the two younger ones get more available developmental opportunities on the court after the trade.
 
PG - Dame, Simons
SG - Holiday, Trent
Vet Scorer - Reddick
———————-
SF - Hood, Melo, Little (Hoard)
PF - Veteran, and Draft pick
———————
Nurkic, a Veteran, and a Draft pick

2-way = Hoard / Adams

So CJ & Collins to New Orleans for Holiday & Reddick is my major trade. We may have to add a sweetener, since Collins’ value is now low

Then we need a veteran PF and C

And draft focus on bigs: PF and C
 
BoomChakaLaka said:
PG - Dame, Simons
SG - Holiday, Trent
Vet Scorer - Reddick
———————-
SF - Hood, Melo, Little (Hoard)
PF - Veteran, and Draft pick
———————
Nurkic, a Veteran, and a Draft pick

2-way = Hoard / Adams

So CJ & Collins to New Orleans for Holiday & Reddick is my major trade. We may have to add a sweetener, since Collins’ value is now low

Then we need a veteran PF and C

And draft focus on bigs: PF and C
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I could see maybe NO being interested in that as they are young. Blazers acquiring Holiday & Reddick would strengthen the back court and wing and both play D.
The kind of vets that could help Dame to the promise land.
 
Scalma said:
Zach, Simons, and Ariza for Aldridge?
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So we let Aldridge walk without getting anything and now you want to give up two 1st round young players and a solid vet that plays D and can shoot? Pops would jump at that offer.
 
Hoopguru said:
So we let Aldridge walk without getting anything and now you want to give up two 1st round young players and a solid vet that plays D and can shoot? Pops would jump at that offer.
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I mean, I can list what Aldridge does as well.
 
Hoopguru said:
Aldridge is 35 years old. To give up two 1st round picks in their early 20's imo, is an act of desperation.
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I understand your point, but just because a player was a 1st round pick doesn't mean they are valuable. In this case the best player we would be giving up is Ariza, who is no spring chicken himself.
 
Can anyone put a scenario together with our pick, Ariza, and maybe a Simons or Little where we end up with Kelly Oubre and Jerami Grant?

Dame
CJ/Trent
Oubre/Hood
Melo/Grant
Nurk/Collins

That excites me more than LA. Every one of those guys would be a threat from 3(Maybe not the Centers but they can still hit them), it’s also a slight upgrade on Defense.

Might be underwhelming to most but as a Blazer fan those are the level of realistic upgrades I can see. I’m factoring age into “upgrades” also.
 
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LayneStaley said:
Can anyone put a scenario together with our pick, Ariza, and maybe a Simons or Little where we end up with Kelly Oubre and Jerami Grant?

Dame
CJ/Trent
Oubre/Hood
Melo/Grant
Nurk/Collins

That excites me more than LA. Every one of those guys would be a threat from 3(Maybe not the Centers but they can still hit them), it’s also a slight upgrade on Defense.

Might be underwhelming to most but as a Blazer fan those are the level of realistic upgrades I can see. I’m factoring age into “upgrades” also.
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Well Grant is likely going to opt out of his contract with the Nuggets because he is making right around the MLE and could probably get more than that in free agency. We will only have the MLE to offer so he's not likely to end up here next season. For Kelly Oubre the contracts can match up pretty well, so if they are like in love with Ant or Nas and wanted cap relief by cutting Ariza and getting probably this year's first rounder and maybe even more picks we could make that happen. I don't know why they would want Ariza for Oubre, it just doesn't make sense to me so I can only see them wanting salary relief and assets. However if they did want some kind of package for Oubre I would be very hesitant because Oubre is on the final year of his current deal and I wouldn't want to give up a bunch of potential for a one year rental. That being said if there were some way to get some assurance (I'm pretty sure it would take tampering) from Oubre that he would sign an extension with us before the season started, then I would love to trade Ariza, Ant, this years first and a couple future seconds for Oubre it would be a good move for the future and not too bad of a move for next season either.

All of that said, if Grant opted out just because he wanted to be in Portland where his dad played and made a lateral movement as far as salary goes by taking the MLE from us then I would definitely start him over Melo... especially because we wouldn't have any money to sign Melo if we signed Grant. I was mostly just saying that if somehow we got those players you have listed up there, I would start Grant over Melo and I (not Stotts) would bring CJ off of the bench and start Gary. Oh and Oubre isn't a better defender than Ariza but he will be a better defender in a couple of years because Trevor will be retired.
 
Cugel said:
I shudder to think what NO will do next. He signed Mario and Tolliver for fux sake. I am becoming convinced he will go after Aldridge and Stotts will be forced to start LA and Melo.
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Dame, CJ, Melo, LA, and Nurk would be the slowest starting lineup in the league.
 
Cugel said:
I shudder to think what NO will do next. He signed Mario and Tolliver for fux sake. I am becoming convinced he will go after Aldridge and Stotts will be forced to start LA and Melo.
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Yeah Im concerned as well. Most of the fire Stotts fans seem to be missing the biggest issue with this franchise, that these Blazers rosters the last 5 years are not close to contenders.
 
So... Bucks about to go down 0-2 to a team that's clearly less talented. Everybody's making bets as to where Giannis will end up when he becomes a FA in a year. What if the Bucks decide they can't afford to lose him for nothing, and they worry about him going somewhere like Miami, so he'd be in the same conference. They'd be more likely to ship him off out West to a non-rival.
Now, the trade partner would have to be like the Raptors with Kawhi, not afraid to gamble that he'd leave in a year. Meanwhile the big teams probably think they can land him as a FA and so would be less inclined to offer much of value in trade.
What about:
upload_2020-9-2_21-14-17.png

This is actually a pretty painful trade for the Blazers, as they give up Nurk AND the newly-emerged Trent. And another team might see more potential in Simons and Little (and even Collins) than some Portland fans. But we'd have a year for Dame and CJ to persuade him to stay, and we'd find out if that's a Big 3 that can contend.

A man can dream, can't he?
 
Or...

upload_2020-9-2_22-10-25.png

I don't like Bledsoe, so I'm only suggesting this because Milwaukee might want to unload one of their not-so-great contracts along with Giannis. This one leaves us with our young players, especially Trent, though.
 
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