Trade Ideas Thread (2 Viewers)

[B-Roy]

i wouldn't characterize Dame getting talked off the ledge as "disappointing."

More referring to how it’s buying Olshey more time.

 

[B-Roy]

A couple weeks ago I posted that this felt a lot like Lucy pulling the football from Charlie Brown. Yes, absolutely expecting nothing major to happen, because that's how Neil rolls. I think we're looking at between now and the draft for something big to happen -- if it does, great. If it doesn't, there's probably a heightened onus on Neil to add an asset or two through the draft, purely to have enough chips to possibly make something happen at the deadline.

In some ways, I don't hate that plan -- especially if Dame is on board. The trade deadline, or prior to it, feels like a good time (but also the last time) to make the "all-in" or "rebuild" decision... You have some hindsight in how this years crop of draft picks are looking while and have had some ability to scout the next class closely, aren't so far down the path that you can't tank and elevate your draft pick or make a move or two happen to go for it. You also have a massive amount of open cap room coming up, expiring contracts of quality players to trade, etc.

He has already wasted 6 years of Dames prime. It sucks that he’s got people to buy into giving him even more time.

 

[blazerkor]

Do people think we are actually going to make a big move this off-season? It's starting to look more and more like we aren't. After the Friday that Lillard met with Olshey and Billups, all the reports have indicated that Lillard is not going to be moved this off-season. Even Woj and Lowe are reporting. So it seems like Billups was able to talk Dame off the ledge and at least move D-Day back towards the trade deadline. That is disappointing because Olshey gets another off-season where he doesn't have to do anything besides tinker around.

Most likely scenario seems to be overpaying Powell, running it back with a slightly better bench, and then seeing how competitive the team is by the trade deadline. Maybe CJ plays well enough to raise his trade value during the first half the season. If they don't look like contenders at that point, I fully expect them to trade RoCo and Nurkic's expiring contracts and also look to move Dame and CJ. Maybe a deal doesn't materialize but both will be moved in the off-season.

Ugh. Maybe the trade market is really terrible for our guys at the moment, and it doesn't sound like Olshey is willing to move future draft equity. Walking the tight-rope to keep his job.

It doesn't look or sound like anything. We have one concrete piece of evidence that would suggest what the Blazers will do this off season and that is Dame saying that the roster has to get substantially better for him to decide where he wants to be in his immediate future. That's it. We've just got the Dame presser. We can also look at the Olshey presser after he fired Stotts and Olshey did say that the roster wasn't the problem but then doubled back and said that we obviously want to pair Dame with a star bigger than what we have on the roster but he alluded to that being difficult but with how big of a deal the Dame presser is Neil's comments are outdated.

The fact is if we don't make a big move it will be a huge "fuck you" to Dame. In my opinion we don't have the ability to just get Powell by overpaying him because the Knicks can give him the same money we can and promise him that he can defend guards and get far more touches than he would playing with both Dame and CJ. So I think if CJ is still on the roster, that there's better than a 50/50 chance that Norm walks for nothing.

Those things lead me to believe that despite all of the leaked out posturing from our FO that Neil is going to trade CJ and some other assets for an impact forward before free agency starts. I see no other reason why there are so many reports coming out that are sourced that we might not be able to do so, when usually it's radio silence from us.

There's a good chance I'll be disappointed and CJ will still be here to start next season. There's a good enough chance that I'm wrong and Norm is completely cool playing out of position and getting very few touches. We'll just have to see but we won't have to wait, at least not longer than a couple of weeks.

 

[glazeduck]

He has already wasted 6 years of Dames prime. It sucks that he’s got people to buy into giving him even more time.

I'm not arguing that HE should still be here, just that I can see the timing making more sense, from a lot of different angles...

 

[Natebishop3]

and he's not mentally broken and would fit in seamlessly without any drama.

And Portland is home for him.

The argument wasn't about fit though. Scalma said that Sabonis is better than Simmons. That's a different conversation entirely.

 

[Scalma]

Maybe peaked isn't the right word, but I highly doubt we're going to see any massive improvements from him at this point. Simmons, on the other hand, could take a major leap if he could get his shot figured out.

lmao one guy has literally gotten better every season, while the other has stalled and even regressed in certain areas. You’ve got it backwards. Simmons has never even flashed an ability to shoot a basketball, and there are questions about his work ethic. That “if” you speak of is massive.

 

[B-Roy]

I'm not arguing that HE should still be here, just that I can see the timing making more sense, from a lot of different angles...

Sounds like you’re buying the Olshey spin, like many have since he’s been here.

Sorry this all sounds like delaying the inevitable with the number one priority of fabricating a reason he should keep his job.

 

[Natebishop3]

lmao one guy has literally gotten better every season, while the other has stalled and even regressed in certain areas. You’ve got it backwards. Simmons has never even flashed an ability to shoot a basketball, and there are questions about his work ethic. That if you speak of is massive.

And that doesn't at all address what you just quoted. Thanks for playing though. In fact, if anything, you're just proving my point.

 

[Scalma]

And that doesn't at all address what you just quoted. Thanks for playing though. In fact, if anything, you're just proving my point.

I just said he’s never flashed an ability to shoot, so your theory that he’ll “figure it out” is a fantasy, at best. So yeah, I guess he COULD figure it out, just like I guess I COULD get hit by lightning one day.

Meanwhile the other guy (that you claim won’t make any significant improvements) has actually put in the work and seen tangible results every year.

I know who I’m betting on.

 

[RR7]

Isn't sabonis suddenly becoming a good defender at the 5 just as likely as Simmons becoming a good shooter? Seems like they each have a big flaw in their game, and neither is super likely to fix it entirely.

 

[Natebishop3]

I just said he’s never flashed an ability to shoot, so your theory that he’ll “figure it out” is a fantasy, at best. So yeah, I guess he COULD figure it out, just like I guess I COULD get hit by lightning one day.

Meanwhile the other guy (that you claim won’t make any significant improvements) has actually put in the work and seen tangible results every year.

I know who I’m betting on.

Sabonis is a top 20 player. Really good. Would definitely help the team, but that's as far as he's gonna get. He's not going to take a major leap into the top 10 or the top 5.

Simmons is also arguably a top 20 player right now, but if someone can unlock his offensive skillset, he could be a top 10 or a top 5 player in the game.

I would take Simmons simply because I'm not sure we're going to be able to put a contender around Dame, and Simmons could be a cornerstone if things are handled right.

 

[illmatic99]

There are more than 19 players better than Ben Simmons, come on now.

 

[Scalma]

Sabonis is a top 20 player. Really good. Would definitely help the team, but that's as far as he's gonna get. He's not going to take a major leap into the top 10 or the top 5.

Simmons is also arguably a top 20 player right now, but if someone can unlock his offensive skillset, he could be a top 10 or a top 5 player in the game.

I would take Simmons simply because I'm not sure we're going to be able to put a contender around Dame, and Simmons could be a cornerstone if things are handled right.

I would take Simmons too, just because he’s a better fit than CJ, but I definitely don’t see him as a top 20 type player. He’s not even top 30 for me, more like the 30-40 range. Good not great, just like CJ.

 

[Natebishop3]

There are more than 19 players better than Ben Simmons, come on now.

The operative word being "arguably."

 

[glazeduck]

Sounds like you’re buying the Olshey spin, like many have since he’s been here.

Sorry this all sounds like delaying the inevitable with the number one priority of fabricating a reason he should keep his job.

I'm not "buying" anything. I'm trying to think rationally about how our situation might be half a season from now and caveated it with "if Dame is onboard". He's all that matters right now. All I'm saying is there is little sense in making a panic move for cents on the dollar now (if that's what's available) if we're no longer looking at mere days until Dame demands a trade? Obviously if there's a good enough deal out there you take it, the goal should still be to improve the roster, but just as Real Estate agents take longer than anyone else to sell their homes, having more information and more time to garner offers typically isn't a bad thing.

Unquestionably, in a perfect world, we'd get a great deal for CJ and take it and run, but the 6ers are holding strong on Simmons for the time being, Siakam is coming off an injury, CJ's value certainly isn't at an all-time high...

If our options are taking a crappy deal for CJ and saying "this is the best we could do" or doing what we can now to strengthen the bench, improve/keep assets and let the market develop, gauge improvement with a new staff, etc., I don't think that's that hard of a decision to make. It's fine to dislike Neil, and sure, maybe a biproduct of being patient is him staying on the job longer, but that component alone doesn't make it a bad decision...

 

[Scalma]

I'm not "buying" anything. I'm trying to think rationally about how our situation might be half a season from now and caveated it with "if Dame is onboard". He's all that matters right now. All I'm saying is there is little sense in making a panic move for cents on the dollar now (if that's what's available) if we're no longer looking at mere days until Dame demands a trade? Obviously if there's a good enough deal out there you take it, the goal should still be to improve the roster, but just as Real Estate agents take longer than anyone else to sell their homes, having more information and more time to garner offers typically isn't a bad thing.

Unquestionably, in a perfect world, we'd get a great deal for CJ and take it and run, but the 6ers are holding strong on Simmons for the time being, Siakam is coming off an injury, CJ's value certainly isn't at an all-time high...

If our options are taking a crappy deal for CJ and saying "this is the best we could do" or doing what we can now to strengthen the bench, improve/keep assets and let the market develop, gauge improvement with a new staff, etc., I don't think that's that hard of a decision to make. It's fine to dislike Neil, and sure, maybe a biproduct of being patient is him staying on the job longer, but that component alone doesn't make it a bad decision...

I bet that’s what’s gonna happen too, and people will lose their minds. Once again, the goal is to be better in the playoffs, not on opening night.

 

[illmatic99]

The operative word being "arguably."

think the only one arguing that is you.

he was a third team all nba in 2020, but that was more a function of Steph being out for the season and the league collectively hating on Brad Beal even if he put up 31/6/5.

 

[Natebishop3]

think the only one arguing that is you.

he was a third team all nba in 2020, but that was more a function of Steph being out for the season and the league collectively hating on Brad Beal even if he put up 31/6/5.

I'd have to go down the list, but you don't think he could slide into that 20th spot? No argument to be made?

 

[glazeduck]

I bet that’s what’s gonna happen too, and people will lose their minds. Once again, the goal is to be better in the playoffs, not on opening night.

Probably wise for fans to expect the worst and hope for the best. Better put, think about the situation this way, we're quickly reaching shit or get off the pot time. Whether that's by the draft, by free agency, but camp, or by the deadline, shouldn't we just want the best decision to be made? Very clearly Dame has standards of what that decision needs to look like -- either we'll be able to swing something that satisfies him to keep grinding here, or we don't, and to think that he won't be heavily involved in whether that deal is made is foolish. Dame is effectively the GM at this point. If we're able to swing a big enough trade, at whatever point, great. If we're not, he's gone, and that's pretty blatantly clear at this point. Rushing to make a move just to make a move either won't be approved by him, or will only backfire.

 

[illmatic99]

I'd have to go down the list, but you don't think he could slide into that 20th spot? No argument to be made?

what top 20 player needs to be benched late in the fourth quarter of an elimination game?

 

[glazeduck]

what top 20 player needs to be benched late in the fourth quarter of an elimination game?

Shaq

 

[illmatic99]

Shaq

i can't believe you guys are making me continue to talk crap about a guy i have been so high on, but come back to me when ben simmons has a 30/15 game in the playoffs instead of 6/5.

ben simmons might have potential to become a top 20 player. Maybe even higher Sure.

but Sabonis is already one right now.

 

[Natebishop3]

what top 20 player needs to be benched late in the fourth quarter of an elimination game?

Come on man....

 

[illmatic99]

Come on man....

It's a legitimate question. Simmons' liabilities right now have him closer to top 50 maybe. Not top 20.

the appeal in Ben is ALL about potential.

And it's a risk worth taking especially for our team, but I'm taking Sabonis over him every day of the week.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's a legitimate question. Simmons' liabilities right now have him closer to top 50 maybe. Not top 20.

the appeal in Ben is ALL about potential.

And it's a risk worth taking especially for our team, but I'm taking Sabonis over him every day of the week.

So what you're saying is that your list is only compiled of players who are top 20 in all situations and scenarios? I base my list off the season in its entirety. Not a few minutes in the playoffs.

 

[glazeduck]

i can't believe you guys are making me continue to talk crap about a guy i have been so high on, but come back to me when ben simmons has a 30/15 game in the playoffs instead of 6/5.

ben simmons might have potential to become a top 20 player. Maybe even higher Sure.

but Sabonis is already one right now.

I think the problem is you're looking at the Ben Simmons from this playoffs as though it's all-encompassing of who he is. I don't care to weigh in on the Baby Sabas vs. Simmons debate because it's arguing which is better pizza or burritos, they're in separate categories to begin with.

Simmons was awful, offensively, in that series. THAT Simmons, was absolutely not a top-20 player. But THAT Simmons, a) is not the Simmons that's a multi-time all-star, nor is it the Simmons that you'd be trading for (both because your intentions would be that he snaps out of it AND because there's no way in hell Philly prices him as such).

So sure, the Ben Simmons we last saw was absolutely not a top-2o player, and objectively, baby Sabas is better than that. But to pretend that he's always been or always will be THAT Simmons is to overlook a ton of talent, amazing mismatch potential, and one of - if not THE - best defenders in the game.

 

[blazerkor]

I bet that’s what’s gonna happen too, and people will lose their minds. Once again, the goal is to be better in the playoffs, not on opening night.

I won't "lose my mind" if CJ isn't traded during the off season or even if we "run it back". I will be very disappointed and I can't believe that Dame will feel much differently. I will get pretty damned pissed if CJ isn't traded and that results in Norm walking and therefore the only major move is that we get worse. I have no idea what Dame will feel like or do if that is the case.

Edit: Oh and if you believe the supposedly sourced reports/rumors and I know that's a foolish thing to do, Dame's goal isn't getting better by the playoffs it's to be better in a serious way by the trade deadline.

 

[illmatic99]

I think the problem is you're looking at the Ben Simmons from this playoffs as though it's all-encompassing of who he is. I don't care to weigh in on the Baby Sabas vs. Simmons debate because it's arguing which is better pizza or burritos, they're in separate categories to begin with.

Simmons was awful, offensively, in that series. THAT Simmons, was absolutely not a top-20 player. But THAT Simmons, a) is not the Simmons that's a multi-time all-star, nor is it the Simmons that you'd be trading for (both because your intentions would be that he snaps out of it AND because there's no way in hell Philly prices him as such).

So sure, the Ben Simmons we last saw was absolutely not a top-2o player, and objectively, baby Sabas is better than that. But to pretend that he's always been or always will be THAT Simmons is to overlook a ton of talent, amazing mismatch potential, and one of - if not THE - best defenders in the game.

as someone who has been beating the simmons to portland drum for almost 3 yrs now, this is what i have been thinking. There is no way he would be available if he didn't have that horrific playoff run last month.

but the context of my argument was the debate between him and Sabonis.

 

[Idog1976]

It's a legitimate question. Simmons' liabilities right now have him closer to top 50 maybe. Not top 20.

the appeal in Ben is ALL about potential.

And it's a risk worth taking especially for our team, but I'm taking Sabonis over him every day of the week.

That's utterly false it's not ALL about potential. He would fix our biggest issues - Perimeter Defense and secondary playmaker/ball handler - Right now today, as is. He's a terrible fit next to Embiid in case that wasn't clear. A team properly built around him with the proper coach and proper motivation is what he needs. He doesn't even need a jump shot to be extremely effective. If he can just become a better FT shooter - which btw is BY FAR the easiest skill to learn - he would instantly be a no-brainer. The only reason we can take a crack at this guy is due to his current flaws. People seem to forget CJ's far more concerning flaws of no defense and horrible mental mistakes like stepping out of bounds on a crucial momentum-changing play. I wouldn't trade Dame for Simmons, but literally, anyone else on the team is on the table because Simmons is already, as I write this, a vastly and I mean vastly better player than anyone on our team not named Dame.

 

[Scalma]

It’s not just his playoffs, Simmons’ 2021 season graded out as about the same as CJs when you look at the numbers. VORP had them virtually identical. He’s a good but flawed player that’s been overhyped by the media because of his prospect status and where he’s been playing. He’s been gradually regressing since his rookie season. Feel like the last two years he’s been an all star mainly because of reputation.