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Warning Homer Trade:
CJ for Dillon Brooks and Jaren Jackson

Salaries don't match at all until their new contracts kick in. I don't know what date that is.
 
Warning Homer Trade:
CJ for Dillon Brooks and Jaren Jackson

Salaries don't match at all until their new contracts kick in. I don't know what date that is.
I don't know if that's so bad as far as talent and fit go but obviously the age thing would be a nonstarter for the Grizz. Also, I think you are saying that they would use their cap space to make this trade work and that would start as soon as the new league year starts, I don't think they've set that date yet.
 
Blazers out: CJ and Ariza
Blazers in: Jrue and Redick

NO out: Jrue and Redick
NO in: Horford and Richardson (and picks from Philly/Portland)

PHI out: Horford and Richardson
PHI in: CJ and Ariza

I like our 9 man rotation a lot:

Lillard/Redick/Holiday/Melo/Nurkic
Simons/Trent/Hood/Collins
 
I'd like to bring in a Paul George type of roleplayer, but preferably a little more reliable.
 
Blazers out: CJ and Ariza
Blazers in: Jrue and Redick

NO out: Jrue and Redick
NO in: Horford and Richardson (and picks from Philly/Portland)

PHI out: Horford and Richardson
PHI in: CJ and Ariza

I like our 9 man rotation a lot:

Lillard/Redick/Holiday/Melo/Nurkic
Simons/Trent/Hood/Collins

see page 185 of this thread
 
Blazers out: CJ and Ariza
Blazers in: Jrue and Redick

NO out: Jrue and Redick
NO in: Horford and Richardson (and picks from Philly/Portland)

PHI out: Horford and Richardson
PHI in: CJ and Ariza

I like our 9 man rotation a lot:

Lillard/Redick/Holiday/Melo/Nurkic
Simons/Trent/Hood/Collins
Way to much value for Philly and we and NOP get screwed.
 
Way to much value for Philly and we and NOP get screwed.

I think Portland does fine there. They upgrade at starting SG, getting a better fit. And Reddick for Ariza has good and bad for Portland in it, but I think it's a push. A Dame/Jrue/Trent starting unit with Little on the bench has some potential, especially with the major improvement in defense

the Pels get screwed though, you're right about that (unless there are draft picks involved?)
 
I think Portland does fine there. They upgrade at starting SG, getting a better fit. And Reddick for Ariza has good and bad for Portland in it, but I think it's a push. A Dame/Jrue/Trent starting unit with Little on the bench has some potential, especially with the major improvement in defense

the Pels get screwed though, you're right about that (unless there are draft picks involved?)

You argued against little at SF because of his height,but you're ok with trent there?
 
You argued against little at SF because of his height,but you're ok with trent there?

IIRC, I argued mostly against Little at PF and Trent at SF, but I'm not really happy with either as the starting SF....unless they were there as a result of being in the process of rebooting the roster, which is what would be happening if the Blazers traded CJ for JRue

I'd think Dame/Jrue/Trent would be a decent transitional perimeter unit, especially considering the upgrade of perimeter defense. Ariza does not seem like much of a long term fit at SF, so he's transitional too. I'd be fine if the Ariza for Reddick part of the trade was dropped.
 
I think Portland does fine there. They upgrade at starting SG, getting a better fit. And Reddick for Ariza has good and bad for Portland in it, but I think it's a push. A Dame/Jrue/Trent starting unit with Little on the bench has some potential, especially with the major improvement in defense

the Pels get screwed though, you're right about that (unless there are draft picks involved?)
So you want to sacrifice shot creation and get a worse offensive fit in Jrue who is set to decline just to downgrade our size and defense at the 3? No thanks.
 
So you want to sacrifice shot creation and get a worse offensive fit in Jrue who is set to decline just to downgrade our size and defense at the 3? No thanks.

what shot creation? CJ?

CJ creates his own shots for sure, but he's not that good at it.

and, LOL, Jrue is only 33 days older than Dame. I guess they can "decline" together. And speaking of decline, when will Ariza start?...he's 35.
 
what shot creation? CJ?

CJ creates his own shots for sure, but he's not that good at it.

and, LOL, Jrue is only 33 days older than Dame. I guess they can "decline" together. And speaking of decline, when will Ariza start?...he's 35.
Hes not that good at it? Debbie downer strikes again.

C.J. has bailed out our offense time and time again when it bogs down to nothingness and when teams take away Dame.

We lose Game 7 of the WCSF last year by double digits if we have Jrue instead of C.J.

Jrue has also been in the league since 2009, while Dame entered the league 3 years later. Jrue has also been knicked up his entire career.

Lateral moves sacrificing one area for another at the expense of familiarity and chemistry make 0 sense whatsoever, except to the "grass-is-greener" types.
 
Big risk/reward

CJ (MAYBE add 16) for MPJ+Harris
I wouldn't add the 16th pick and I'd have them add Monte Morris to make salaries work and to add value. I don't think that is a good deal for Denver but I also think with MPJ's attitude and injury history we have to mitigate the risk. If Denver wants to win now then they would do the deal. If they are content waiting a couple more seasons to let everyone mature then that would likely be the smarter move 16th pick or not but on our side we have to make it worth the risk. I do like Gary Harris next to Dame though, he defends much better than CJ and hits the spot up three however he's not in CJ's stratosphere as a scorer.
 
Hes not that good at it? Debbie downer strikes again.

C.J. has bailed out our offense time and time again when it bogs down to nothingness and when teams take away Dame.

We lose Game 7 of the WCSF last year by double digits if we have Jrue instead of C.J.

Jrue has also been in the league since 2009, while Dame entered the league 3 years later. Jrue has also been knicked up his entire career.

Lateral moves sacrificing one area for another at the expense of familiarity and chemistry make 0 sense whatsoever, except to the "grass-is-greener" types.
Quick question, do you think the blazers should trade CJ? If so what kind of players would you aim for?
 
Hes not that good at it? Debbie downer strikes again.

no...he's not that good at

* in isolation possessions, CJ averaged 0.88 points/possession. That was only in the 56th percentile (44% of the league was better) in the league, and that was 13.3% of his possessions. Dame scored 1.07 ppp in isolation on 18% of his possessions and that was good enough for the 87th percentile

* in PnR ball-handler, which was 36.3% of CJ's possessions, he averaged 0.93 ppp which was only good enough for the 71st percentile. Dame averaged 1.15 ppp which was in the 96th percentile, and that was 52% of his possessions.

those are the two most 'create-your-own-offense' types of possessions. By weight, that means CJ was somewhere around the 66th percentile leaving 1/3 of the league better at shot creation and that actually accounted for about 50% of CJ's possessions. CJ isn't nearly as good at it as you are implying. On the other hand, Dame is elite at shot creation, being somewhere in the 93rd percentile, and that accounted for 70% of his possessions. A big difference is that an essential component of creating offense is creating FT opportunities and CJ is terrible at that. Always has been, always will be

another play type that accounted for 14.5% of CJ's possessions was transition. Definitely a possession that would gauge some ball handling and shot creation. Well, CJ was only in the 45th percentile in that category. That's approaching two thirds of CJ's possessions, plays dependent on 'shot creation', and CJ is hovering around the 60th percentile. That's not impressive. But I don't demerit him a lot for transition offense because the entire team sucks at it

meanwhile, CJ is in the 83rd percentile in spot-up possessions (14% of his shots). He's in the 75th percentile in off-screen shots.

And CJ ranks 8th in the NBA among perimeter players in eFG% on catch-and-shoot. That's elite

but that illustrates the problem. CJ's prowess in creating his own offense is more mythical than real. Yes, he does it a lot, but he's not very efficient. He's much better on plays that don't see him dribbling like crazy, burning shot clock, and stopping the damn ball. His assisted FG rate is half of what it should be. He needs to play a lot more like Klay Thompson and a lot less like Dame. Yeah, every once in a while he'll have a hot game and his fans will point to it repeatedly, forgetting about all his nothing-burger games where he did the same thing but shot bricks while hogging the ball.

and you say he's "bailed out" the Blazers in games. Sure, he's done that but Portland would not need to be bailed out so often if CJ wasn't such a huge sieve on defense. That's where Holiday would be a big help (he was in the 88th percentile in isolation by the way).
 
If we can get Paul George for CJ, I would take that deal and run before they say no. He's mentally a bit unstable, but with Dame taking on the leadership/alpha role, he'd be ridiculous here.

But some of the shit that went down this bubble run probably burned bridges between Dame/PG.
I think we can get PG without giving up CJ. PG's stock is low.
 
I wouldn't add the 16th pick and I'd have them add Monte Morris to make salaries work and to add value. I don't think that is a good deal for Denver but I also think with MPJ's attitude and injury history we have to mitigate the risk. If Denver wants to win now then they would do the deal. If they are content waiting a couple more seasons to let everyone mature then that would likely be the smarter move 16th pick or not but on our side we have to make it worth the risk. I do like Gary Harris next to Dame though, he defends much better than CJ and hits the spot up three however he's not in CJ's stratosphere as a scorer.

I m pretty sure even if somehow salaries matched they would decline CJ for MPJ straight up. MPJ's ceiling is extremely high to ignore and his age fits perfectly their young group as it is right now. I also don't think CJ would be very good in their offense. Jokic and Murray handle the ball the rest of the Nuggets spot up for three or cut to the basket. I think although CJ has great offensive talent he doesn't fit.
 
Every gm and coach knows Paul George is still an all star caliber player. Sure a shitty game 7 but game 6 he was there. Clippers will keep him
 
A CJ trade won't happen because Dame and Olshey loves him too much
 

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My way too big, and never gonna happen trade idea:

Portland Out:
CJ
Hezonja
Ariza
Collins
Whiteside(S&T, starting at ~13)
#16

Portland In:
Horford
Tobias Harris
Josh Richardson
Matthias Thybulle
#21

Philly Out:
Horford
Harris
Richardson
Thybulle
#21

Philly In:
CJ
Collins
CP3
THeir choice of Whiteside or Ariza
#25

OKC Out:
CP3
#25

OKC In:
Ariza or Whiteside
#16
 
I think we can get PG without giving up CJ. PG's stock is low.
Consider that Kawhi is effectively the Clips' GM, both PG and Kawhi's contracts are up at the end of next year, and Kawhi's condition for coming to the Clips was that they acquire Paul George and I'd say that you're talking out of your ass.
 
no...he's not that good at

* in isolation possessions, CJ averaged 0.88 points/possession. That was only in the 56th percentile (44% of the league was better) in the league, and that was 13.3% of his possessions. Dame scored 1.07 ppp in isolation on 18% of his possessions and that was good enough for the 87th percentile

* in PnR ball-handler, which was 36.3% of CJ's possessions, he averaged 0.93 ppp which was only good enough for the 71st percentile. Dame averaged 1.15 ppp which was in the 96th percentile, and that was 52% of his possessions.

those are the two most 'create-your-own-offense' types of possessions. By weight, that means CJ was somewhere around the 66th percentile leaving 1/3 of the league better at shot creation and that actually accounted for about 50% of CJ's possessions. CJ isn't nearly as good at it as you are implying. On the other hand, Dame is elite at shot creation, being somewhere in the 93rd percentile, and that accounted for 70% of his possessions. A big difference is that an essential component of creating offense is creating FT opportunities and CJ is terrible at that. Always has been, always will be

another play type that accounted for 14.5% of CJ's possessions was transition. Definitely a possession that would gauge some ball handling and shot creation. Well, CJ was only in the 45th percentile in that category. That's approaching two thirds of CJ's possessions, plays dependent on 'shot creation', and CJ is hovering around the 60th percentile. That's not impressive. But I don't demerit him a lot for transition offense because the entire team sucks at it

meanwhile, CJ is in the 83rd percentile in spot-up possessions (14% of his shots). He's in the 75th percentile in off-screen shots.

And CJ ranks 8th in the NBA among perimeter players in eFG% on catch-and-shoot. That's elite

but that illustrates the problem. CJ's prowess in creating his own offense is more mythical than real. Yes, he does it a lot, but he's not very efficient. He's much better on plays that don't see him dribbling like crazy, burning shot clock, and stopping the damn ball. His assisted FG rate is half of what it should be. He needs to play a lot more like Klay Thompson and a lot less like Dame. Yeah, every once in a while he'll have a hot game and his fans will point to it repeatedly, forgetting about all his nothing-burger games where he did the same thing but shot bricks while hogging the ball.

and you say he's "bailed out" the Blazers in games. Sure, he's done that but Portland would not need to be bailed out so often if CJ wasn't such a huge sieve on defense. That's where Holiday would be a big help (he was in the 88th percentile in isolation by the way).
Wowzers, I'd love a Jrue Holiday for CJ exchange.
 
Wowzers, I'd love a Jrue Holiday for CJ exchange.
The only problem is since Holiday was traded to New Orleans from Philadelphia he has on average missed about 23 games per season in the regular season.

now, can we afford to lose 23 games of our second best player per season?

we would need additional compensation
 
Not a trade idea, but if/when the Hornets buy Batum out (he’s definitely gonna opt in to his PO) this next season/off season, would y’all want him back? I think he would be a welcome addition at a low salary.
 
The more I think about it the more I think we could get Giannis and win a championship with him next season... which would keep him here. I think if Neil offered CJ, Zach, Nurk and every pick we can offer them for Giannis, George Hill and Brook Lopez, that would get our foot in the door or even close the deal. Maybe it's not enough for Milwaukee and they want Gary and Nas too but we want to keep Gary so we offer Nas and Ant. I think they would for sure go for that. It keeps them competitive now and going forward and gives them a ton of pieces to either move for another star or just have a really bright future. All of their talent and picks would be locked up, no chance they could just leave. They would be taking very little risk with the upside that all of those picks are high if Giannis doesn't re-sign with us. A rotation of Bledsoe, CJ, Middleton, Zach, Nurk, MLE, DiVencenzo, RoLo, and a possibly re-signed or opted in Wes would be really competitive in the East and would still get you home court advantage... again, unless you could turn some of the stuff we send over besides CJ and Nurk with some of your own picks into another big time player and then you stay a real contender. For us I think we win a title with a rotation of Dame, Gary, Ariza, Giannis, BroLo, Hill, Hood, MLE and ring chasers probably including Melo. That and Dame would get Giannis to stay.

I know Olshey, Dame and Stotts are enamored with our current squad but I would think Neil would at least have to shoot his shot at this. It would put us so much closer to a title now even though it would be a huge gamble with our future.
 
I don't think Milwaukee would do that. Have to have an all star coming back. Giannis is what a 2x mvp now, no way they let him go for less than Dame plus picks etc
 
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