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tester551 said:
Take off your homer glasses.

Last year, both players statistically had their best seasons. Without looking, tell me which player is which:
  • Player A Player B
  • PER 20.8 21.3
  • TS% 0.577 0.582
  • 3p% 0.402 0.376
  • PTS/100 33.1 32.1
  • WS/48 0.141 0.154
  • ORtg 120 117
  • DRtg 118 110

Neither one is legitimately an all-star talent. Both are good-but not great.
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Talk to me in Points per game
 
RR7 said:
He's still a big injuiry risk, and not a fit with Nurk, so I don't like a straight swap, but KP last year put up a career high PER, TS%, TRB%, WS/48, BPM.
I think his defense has definitely seen better days, however. Although he's still a slightly better shot blocker than Nurk.
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Do you even watch the other teams play in the playoffs? Why do you want the players who absolutely stank it up in the playoffs? First Simmons and now Porzingis? Were you even watching the games?
 
RR7 said:
He's still a big injuiry risk, and not a fit with Nurk, so I don't like a straight swap, but KP last year put up a career high PER, TS%, TRB%, WS/48, BPM.
I think his defense has definitely seen better days, however. Although he's still a slightly better shot blocker than Nurk.
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Porzingis is a great example of why basketball metrics are hard to trust.

Every time I watched the Mavs play with him on the court he stuck out like a sore thumb. Despite what the numbers said, he seemed to hold that team back. Just wasn't a good fit. He's 7-1 and he plays a lot of the time like he's a 6-3 set-shooter, so uncomfortable posting up that he negates his own height advantage. Just not a guy I fear at all on an opposing team anymore and if the Blazers traded CJ for him I think the Blazers would need something else coming back.
 
I'm not sure if I would want to trade CJ for Porzingis either, but to say Porzingis is less talented than CJ shows how much some of us Blazer fans are overrating CJ or all the players on our roster. Porzingis' injury history is the reason I would not pull the trigger. Talent and productivity while on the court certainly would not be a reason.
 
Tince said:
I'm not sure if I would want to trade CJ for Porzingis either, but to say Porzingis is less talented than CJ shows how much some of us Blazer fans are overrating CJ or all the players on our roster.
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Does it? Might just be some people think Porzingis is overrated.

Also, I think it kind of works both ways. Fans are apt to heap unnecessary hate on their own guys as much as they are to fall in love with love. Grass is greener type thing. When you think your team is close, it becomes easy to scapegoat as a rationale for what's holding the team back.
 
PCmor7 said:
Does it? Might just be some people think Porzingis is overrated.

Also, I think it kind of works both ways. Fans are apt to heap unnecessary hate on their own guys as much as they are to fall in love with love. Grass is greener type thing. When you think your team is close, it becomes easy to scapegoat as a rationale for what's holding the team back.
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I agree with the statements that fans can be extra hard on their own players as well.

I guess it was the implications that CJ is a boardline all-star (not really accurate in my opinion) and that makes him better than KP, who's already been an all-star that surprised me. KP is a 7'1" scorer who doesn't do much else. CJ is a 6'3" scorer who doesn't do much else. CJ gets more assists, KP gets more blocks. To imply one is in an different league than other would be totally off base in my opinion.

Having said all that, I wouldn't do the trade, because of KPs injuries, not his talent.
 
Tince said:
I agree with the statements that fans can be extra hard on their own players as well.

I guess it was the implications that CJ is a boardline all-star (not really accurate in my opinion) and that makes him better than KP, who's already been an all-star that surprised me. KP is a 7'1" scorer who doesn't do much else. CJ is a 6'3" scorer who doesn't do much else. CJ gets more assists, KP gets more blocks. To imply one is in an different league than other would be totally off base in my opinion.

Having said all that, I wouldn't do the trade, because of KPs injuries, not his talent.
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A lot of people underrate CJ as a ballhandler. Maybe that's because he primarily does it to set himself up, but I'd feel more confident having him handling the basketball against good defense than anyone on this team, maybe even more than Dame. He can get his own shot. Porzingis can't. That's a very big deal.

That also goes to what people are missing with a CJ-for-Porzingis trade. Where does Porzingis fit? Would the Blazers try to trot him out there with Nurkic in a starting five? I think that would make the Blazers significantly worse. Porzingis is a major liability in the pick and roll. He's long but not laterally agile anymore. Nurk would have trouble being isolated with guards, and I'd feel more confident with him in that situation than Porzingis.

I guess that would mean RoCo moving to the 3. I don't think he has the agility to guard shooting guards or wing forwards, at least not better ones. He also is an average ballhandler at best.

Norm fits at the 2, but dribbling is his weakest skill.

So that lineup has defensive issues at four positions and one decent dribbler.

You could bring Porzingis off the bench, but that would mean the Blazers were trading a starter who was their second-best scorer and second-best playmaker for a reserve. You still have to address ballhandling off the bench. And, if Porzingis doesn't have someone to drive and draw defenders for him to shoot 3s, most of his offense is negated. He's not really the low post presence on offense that he should be.

It's a trade that doesn't make sense unless the Blazers are making another deal, but the Blazers will have traded their biggest chip and they'd still need at least a ballhandler and still are kind of shallow at the big.
 
PCmor7 said:
A lot of people underrate CJ as a ballhandler. Maybe that's because he primarily does it to set himself up, but I'd feel more confident having him handling the basketball against good defense than anyone on this team, maybe even more than Dame. He can get his own shot. Porzingis can't. That's a very big deal.

That also goes to what people are missing with a CJ-for-Porzingis trade. Where does Porzingis fit? Would the Blazers try to trot him out there with Nurkic in a starting five? I think that would make the Blazers significantly worse. Porzingis is a major liability in the pick and roll. He's long but not laterally agile anymore. Nurk would have trouble being isolated with guards, and I'd feel more confident with him in that situation than Porzingis.

I guess that would mean RoCo moving to the 3. I don't think he has the agility to guard shooting guards or wing forwards, at least not better ones. He also is an average ballhandler at best.

Norm fits at the 2, but dribbling is his weakest skill.

So that lineup has defensive issues at four positions and one decent dribbler.

You could bring Porzingis off the bench, but that would mean the Blazers were trading a starter who was their second-best scorer and second-best playmaker for a reserve. You still have to address ballhandling off the bench. And, if Porzingis doesn't have someone to drive and draw defenders for him to shoot 3s, most of his offense is negated. He's not really the low post presence on offense that he should be.

It's a trade that doesn't make sense unless the Blazers are making another deal, but the Blazers will have traded their biggest chip and they'd still need at least a ballhandler and still are kind of shallow at the big.
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I agree with a lot of what you said. I still think anyone trying to claim CJ is on another level from KP is either overrating CJ or underrating KP.
 
tykendo said:
Either is RoCo. He tries, and does a good job, but his best position is SF. RoCo struggled against the big boys at PF.
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I disagree. You might be right in that RoCo isn't a PF, although, with most teams going smaller more often, I think this works for him. However, in no way do I consider him a SF. He's not quick enough defensively to guard those guys, and, offensively, he lacks the handle you need to be the most-effective wing.

Could wind up being a guy without a position.
 
PCmor7 said:
I disagree. You might be right in that RoCo isn't a PF, although, with most teams going smaller more often, I think this works for him. However, in no way do I consider him a SF. He's not quick enough defensively to guard those guys, and, offensively, he lacks the handle you need to be the most-effective wing.

Could wind up being a guy without a position.
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I'm not sure how much you should gauge RoCo by his offense since he carries a Batum-level low usage rate. He's always been a 4th option on offense

but if you go by defense, and track back thru 82games data, he's always defended SF's better than he has PF's. The numbers are pretty conclusive. Now, he'll turn 31 next season so maybe he's on the verge of losing a step, but even last season in Portland, RoCo defended SF's better.

certainly, the line between SG and SF started to be blurred a decade ago; and the line between SF and PF has become blurred over the last 2-3 seasons. So maybe, it doesn't matter much. But a team that has a high-level, big, mobile PF is going to have an advantage most nights because of that blurring
 
wizenheimer said:
certainly, the line between SG and SF started to be blurred a decade ago; and the line between SF and PF has become blurred over the last 2-3 seasons. So maybe, it doesn't matter much. But a team that has a high-level, big, mobile PF is going to have an advantage most nights because of that blurring
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The good news is that there are not that many big mobile PF's with talent. But yeah, the teams who have them will kill us. We have to find someone for those few occasions. Even if it is a seasoned vet who only plays small minutes until those matchups occur.
 
Hoopguru said:
just a gut feeling....year before last I heard Cuban on a sports show comment on how he liked CJ's play. The other reason is I think Dallas needs another combo guard type that can flat out score and also takes some pressure off Doncic from handling the ball so much. Salaries match. Just a wild ass hunch.
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cj and djj for doncic! Make it happen!!
 
Listening to Rip City Radio with Chad & Travis yesterday, they had a Bay Area Sports Talk Host on, and he said the majority of callers wanted Draymond Green traded after his comments about Steve Kerr & their GM. The guest mentioned he thought of a 3 team trade that would work. It was CJ to Philly, Green to PDX, Simmons to GS. I was like sounds familiar. So you never know what will happen with the fallout from Simmons playoff performance, and now Green's podcast.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
The good news is that there are not that many big mobile PF's with talent. But yeah, the teams who have them will kill us. We have to find someone for those few occasions. Even if it is a seasoned vet who only plays small minutes until those matchups occur.
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that's true...there's Giannis of course; AD; Randle. Maybe Christian Wood & Porzingis. Myles Turner?
 
tykendo said:
Listening to Rip City Radio with Chad & Travis yesterday, they had a Bay Area Sports Talk Host on, and he said the majority of callers wanted Draymond Green traded after his comments about Steve Kerr & their GM. The guest mentioned he thought of a 3 team trade that would work. It was CJ to Philly, Green to PDX, Simmons to GS. I was like sounds familiar. So you never know what will happen with the fallout from Simmons playoff performance, and now Green's podcast.
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I would do it. Watching Green in the Olympics, I was really impressed. He has matured a lot.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I would do it. Watching Green in the Olympics, I was really impressed. He has matured a lot.
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Me too. I think CJ deserves a chance to breakaway from being the sidekick to leading his own team. I think his game would mesh great with Embiid. I could see him being an Eastern Conference All Star. Morey-on just needs to pull his head out, and get it done. The fans want Simmons gone. Philly can also get a few picks from GS, and the Blazers can get an extra role player along with Draymond to make the deal work. Simmons is happy, i think Green would enjoy playing next to Dame and adding to his resume of success, and I think CJ would be happy with building his brand as well.
 
All this Ben Simmons talk is fucking disgusting...

It's like y'all didn't watch the playoffs. Somebody in here said "dunk whenever he wants"...

GTFO... He was scared to dunk on Trae Young because he might go to the foul line where does what?? FUCKING SUCK...

Basketball aside, this prima donna MF completely CUT off communication with his team. He's literally not returning the Sixers calls... :blink:

Moron wants to trade him. Embiid calls him out and doesn't want to play with him, WTF do you think Dame wants with this MF??

He doesn't even shoot with the correct hand...

Y'all hate CJ so much and want to trade a walking bucket for a guy who needs to see a psychiatrist... FOH...
 
dviss1 said:
All this Ben Simmons talk is fucking disgusting...

It's like y'all didn't watch the playoffs. Somebody in here said "dunk whenever he wants"...

GTFO... He was scared to dunk on Trae Young because he might go to the foul line where does what?? FUCKING SUCK...

Basketball aside, this prima donna MF completely CUT off communication with his team. He's literally not returning the Sixers calls... :blink:

Moron wants to trade him. Embiid calls him out and doesn't want to play with him, WTF do you think Dame wants with this MF??

He doesn't even shoot with the correct hand...

Y'all hate CJ so much and want to trade a walking bucket for a guy who needs to see a psychiatrist... FOH...
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So what I'm gathering from this is...you're not in favor of the Blazers acquiring Simmons? Your feelings are a bit unclear...
 
dviss1 said:
All this Ben Simmons talk is fucking disgusting...

It's like y'all didn't watch the playoffs. Somebody in here said "dunk whenever he wants"...

GTFO... He was scared to dunk on Trae Young because he might go to the foul line where does what?? FUCKING SUCK...

Basketball aside, this prima donna MF completely CUT off communication with his team. He's literally not returning the Sixers calls... :blink:

Moron wants to trade him. Embiid calls him out and doesn't want to play with him, WTF do you think Dame wants with this MF??

He doesn't even shoot with the correct hand...

Y'all hate CJ so much and want to trade a walking bucket for a guy who needs to see a psychiatrist... FOH...
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would you do cj to phili, simmons to gsw and green to us?

id do it because i think we need that point forward to allow dame to play more off ball to get easier shots and allow more energy to be expelled on defense.
 
Orion Bailey said:
would you do cj to phili, simmons to gsw and green to us?

id do it because i think we need that point forward to allow dame to play more off ball to get easier shots and allow more energy to be expelled on defense.
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Yes. I'd do that. People who say they wouldn't because of GSW's record last year need to concentrate on the fact that they had no Klay and Wiggins was their 2nd leading scorer... We have Norm Powell and more involved in the offense Nurkic for scoring.

We need defense from the PF spot.
 
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