Trade Lillard now

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riverman said:
I disagree....Dame is a unicorn and Luka has talent but a poor work ethic..comes into camp way out of shape...I wouldn't trade Dame for Luka at all..and the GMs agree with me on this one....Dame's not on the trade table and won't be unless he demands it......story closed. Also Dame wants to be here...he's the chip that brings talented vets here for one reason only...to play with him. Why throw that away on some gamble and trade machine bs........I heard Quick's whole justification and he just lost his inside track to our star for writing a piece about trading him given the timing of his article....he wouldn't have written it if Dame were leading the MVP race this season...I promise you that...you don't kick great guys when they're down. My two cents
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Luka was just an example. He is close to 10 years younger and is arguably a better player than Dame. To not even consider that would be ridiculous.

What GMs agree with you?

Either way. Shutting down all offers without even hearing them for ANYONE in the league would be gross mismanagement of an organization.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
So if you don’t win a championship, winning a series is meaningless? I disagree.
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did I say that?

what I said was that the win over the Nuggets didn't mean much at all. That was the playoff high water mark for the Dame/CJ team and they followed it up by getting fucking swept the very next series. It was an 'accomplishment' for those that count moral victories as as something more. If it would have truly been something more, the Blazers would built off of that series win, not have gone 3-12 in the playoffs since.
 
TBpup said:
Quick was writing about considering all options. 'All options', by it's definition would be to CONSIDER moving Dame. He wasn't suggesting a trade, he wasn't advocation for one, he dared to offer up the possibility that something be simply considered. Then he was directly asked in a podcast about it after Dame posted the 'snake' picture.

It is getting to where people are condemned for even the idea of thinking about exploring a possibility......especially, given a situation. That seems awfully week. Then again, 'Portland', where we are offended, feel slighted, or riot about just about anything.
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It's being condemned because Dame has been loyal to Portland through the ups and downs, and then the first time he's down people are talking about trading him when we should be loyal to him I'm return.

Quick also said something about Dame regressing.
 
BonesJones said:
It's being condemned because Dame has been loyal to Portland through the ups and downs, and then the first time he's down people are talking about trading him when we should be loyal to him I'm return.

Quick also said something about Dame regressing.
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Talking about being open to the possibility of trading him.....that's different than wanting to trade him. And Dame has regressed, no?

I'm not in favor of trading Dame unless he wants to, but I also want him to be in the best position possible which means getting 100% healthy and if he is still needing to sit out like in the Atlanta game, he is not at 100%.....so he has regressed from where he was. Just don't understand why Dame would get so upset with the obvious....he has regressed a bit. Doesn't mean he can't get back to where he was, but even at full chat, a 100% Dame with the rest of the pieces wasn't scaring anyone.

So changes need to be made. And if Dame isn't open to completely shutting it down and/or getting the treatment or surgery necessary, than why is it so unreasonable to at least be open to the consideration of exploring a trade. That is quite a ways from wanting to trade someone. Fair?
 
TBpup said:
Talking about being open to the possibility of trading him.....that's different than wanting to trade him. And Dame has regressed, no?

I'm not in favor of trading Dame unless he wants to, but I also want him to be in the best position possible which means getting 100% healthy and if he is still needing to sit out like in the Atlanta game, he is not at 100%.....so he has regressed from where he was. Just don't understand why Dame would get so upset with the obvious....he has regressed a bit. Doesn't mean he can't get back to where he was, but even at full chat, a 100% Dame with the rest of the pieces wasn't scaring anyone.

So changes need to be made. And if Dame isn't open to completely shutting it down and/or getting the treatment or surgery necessary, than why is it so unreasonable to at least be open to the consideration of exploring a trade. That is quite a ways from wanting to trade someone. Fair?
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Dame's injured. I dont remember everything Quick said but it came across as pretty disrespectful considering the access Dame's given him.

Dame's been loyal and I want the organization to be loyal back and not even comsider trading him unless he asks out. Championships are hard to get and other things matter.
 
BonesJones said:
Dame's injured. I dont remember everything Quick said but it came across as pretty disrespectful considering the access Dame's given him.

Dame's been loyal and I want the organization to be loyal back and not even comsider trading him unless he asks out. Championships are hard to get and other things matter.
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I get that, some people think almost anything not glowing is disrespectful, a slight, offensive, etc. From what I read, unless someone is very thin skinned, it didn't come across as respectful. It was just an exploration of ideas....which again, some people these days find as the whole disrespectful/slight/offensive thing. To be fair, I'd think someone posting a picture of someone else with the word "snake" attached, would seems disrespectful, a slight or offensive.

We've see Dame write rap songs when he didn't like something someone else said. What I'm wondering is if Dame even read the article? Often times, players are told something was written or said about them and then they go with that narrative. Who knows how he found out or what digging he did to find out what was actually in the article.

Dame has been loyal to Portland and Portland has been very loyal to Dame. He will make hundreds of millions of dollars for being loyal, but not necessarily getting the results you would hope for given that type of investment. Fair? It's a business. I'm just curious as to how a question about a possibility led to "snake" and then Dame is the one that feels disrespected.
 
I don't really think Quicks article was that disrespectful to Dame. Quick is a writer. The stuff he wrote was an opinion peace that spoke truthfully. Is Dame having a down year? Yes. He even asks why? Is it age? Billups? Injury?
 
SlyPokerCat said:
I don't really think Quicks article was that disrespectful to Dame. Quick is a writer. The stuff he wrote was an opinion peace that spoke truthfully. Is Dame having a down year? Yes. He even asks why? Is it age? Billups? Injury?
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If I had to guess, it was this paragraph from Quick’s Dec. 3rd article that put the burr under Dame’s saddle:

“To be fair, Olshey’s case of this being his best roster was based on Lillard and McCollum playing at a level commensurate to their salaries, and neither guard has come close. Even before Lillard first aggravated his abdomen in the season’s eighth game, he hadn’t excelled at much beyond running the team and making the right pass. His shooting percentages (39.7 from the field and 30.2 from 3) are woeful enough that he will likely need a scorching month of shooting to be considered for the All-Star game. And he still has a devil of a time staying in front of ballhandlers.”
 
BonesJones said:
It's being condemned because Dame has been loyal to Portland through the ups and downs, and then the first time he's down people are talking about trading him when we should be loyal to him I'm return.

Quick also said something about Dame regressing.
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Bones, is that bold part a cut and paste from the article? If it is the spelling of 'week' was weak.
 
e_blazer said:
If I had to guess, it was this paragraph from Quick’s Dec. 3rd article that put the burr under Dame’s saddle:

“To be fair, Olshey’s case of this being his best roster was based on Lillard and McCollum playing at a level commensurate to their salaries, and neither guard has come close. Even before Lillard first aggravated his abdomen in the season’s eighth game, he hadn’t excelled at much beyond running the team and making the right pass. His shooting percentages (39.7 from the field and 30.2 from 3) are woeful enough that he will likely need a scorching month of shooting to be considered for the All-Star game. And he still has a devil of a time staying in front of ballhandlers.”
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Where is Quick wrong? Those are all things someone with thin skin would call someone a snake about. Dame has not played up to his standards. In the December 16th article he asks if it is Dame's injury, Billups coaching or age catching up to him. All fair things to ponder.

If this bothers him, New York or Philly would eat him alive.
 
When super stars are put on a pedestal it's hard to be critical or knock them off.
 
Dame and his loyal mentality are what is right about basketball....Lebron and AD and all these ring chasing superstars are what is wrong with basketball and why it's impossible to have parity in the league....it's not easy to get a HOF superstar like Lillard with his commitment and leadership. He's the draw here...you put some respect on that...he told Quick "you've been around me for a decade and when have I not risen to the occassion?" Quick didn't rise to the occassion and his timing was as bad as it gets for throwing that out in print....I completely understand how it got to this ..even Richman walked this one back after having him on his podcast...Dame has more than earned his place in the pecking order of Blazer culture. The Bucks showed Dame you can do it in a small market
 
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e_blazer said:
If I had to guess, it was this paragraph from Quick’s Dec. 3rd article that put the burr under Dame’s saddle:

“To be fair, Olshey’s case of this being his best roster was based on Lillard and McCollum playing at a level commensurate to their salaries, and neither guard has come close. Even before Lillard first aggravated his abdomen in the season’s eighth game, he hadn’t excelled at much beyond running the team and making the right pass. His shooting percentages (39.7 from the field and 30.2 from 3) are woeful enough that he will likely need a scorching month of shooting to be considered for the All-Star game. And he still has a devil of a time staying in front of ballhandlers.”
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That all seems quite fair. It would be disingenuous to say he was playing better than that. Now if Quick isn't allowed a reality based opinion, then that is probably more on the person taking in the information versus the person conveying it. Quick has had his issues in the passed, but this doesn't seem to be one of them.

riverman said:
Dame and his loyal mentality are what is right about basketball....Lebron and AD and all these ring chasing superstars are what is wrong with basketball and why it's impossible to have parity in the league....it's not easy to get a HOF superstar like Lillard with his commitment and leadership. He's the draw here...you put some respect on that...he told Quick "you've been around me for a decade and when have I not risen to the occassion?" Quick didn't rise to the occassion and his timing was as bad as it gets for throwing that out in print....I completely understand how it got to this ..even Richman walked this one back after having him on his podcast...Dame has more than earned his place in the pecking order of Blazer culture. The Bucks showed Dame you can do it in a small market
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To be fair, the Blazers aren't drawing fans for crap. It is no where near capacity and actual attendance is WAY under what is reported as ticket sales. And what Richman walked back had very little to do with what Dame seemed upset with Quick about. And again, one person wrote a piece that the most casual observer could tell simply by watching. One person referred to the other as a "snake".

Apparently, Quick needs to learn to only right positive, glowing articles, and if the obvious observance is different from that, then flat out lie.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
Where is Quick wrong? Those are all things someone with thin skin would call someone a snake about. Dame has not played up to his standards. In the December 16th article he asks if it is Dame's injury, Billups coaching or age catching up to him. All fair things to ponder.

If this bothers him, New York or Philly would eat him alive.
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I'm not saying that what Quick has said here is sufficient for Dame to be coming down on him in the way that he has, but we don't know the backstory. I get the feeling that Dame feels he's shared some information with Quick, maybe about his injury status, and that Quick has failed to mention that mitigating information in his commentary. Let's say Dame tells him, off the record, that, yeah, he's really being bothered by his abdominal injury and has been since the Olympics, but he doesn't want to use it as an excuse. If that were the case, he may well feel that Quick has shafted him by saying that he's not earning his salary and is not likely to make the All-Star roster. Who knows? In the long run, it's a tempest in a teapot.
 
TBpup said:
That all seems quite fair. It would be disingenuous to say he was playing better than that. Now if Quick isn't allowed a reality based opinion, then that is probably more on the person taking in the information versus the person conveying it. Quick has had his issues in the passed, but this doesn't seem to be one of them.



To be fair, the Blazers aren't drawing fans for crap. It is no where near capacity and actual attendance is WAY under what is reported as ticket sales. And what Richman walked back had very little to do with what Dame seemed upset with Quick about. And again, one person wrote a piece that the most casual observer could tell simply by watching. One person referred to the other as a "snake".

Apparently, Quick needs to learn to only right positive, glowing articles, and if the obvious observance is different from that, then flat out lie.
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As I said above, none of us know the backstory. I'm not siding with either Quick or Dame since I don't have any knowledge of what went on.
 
blazerkor said:
I think you're right that having words put in his mouth all summer by writers has probably made Dame a little more weary of any writer. Dame has just within the last couple months voiced his desire to stay with the team and build something with Chauncey, he's also said he wants to win a championship here but if he does things the way he thinks are the right way and ends up without a ring that he can live with that.

So in the midst of his worst slump in his career and one of the team's worst starts in his career Quick runs a story saying that the Blazers should seriously consider trading Dame. If I was Dame and already very weary of the intentions of writers and the local guy did that, I would see it as kicking me while I'm down and really kicking me the first time that I'd ever been down or in other words the first time it would make any sense to anyone to recommend trading Dame, Quick took the chance to do so. I wouldn't talk to that guy anymore either. Dame doesn't have an obligation to make the lives of people that kick him while he's down easier.
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Dame is super duper disingenuous. The idea that everyone is just putting words into his mouth is just absurd. From the supposed unhappiness with the roster to the potential trade demand to the coaching selection stuff to the claim he did not having an injury when he obviously did, there has just been a lot of Dame Time Drama lately.

And I am saying this as a Dame believer and someone who considers him the best Blazer ever (or close with Clyde). That being said, if this season is any indication, we are facing the beginning of the decline of his career--it has to happen--so why on earth wouldn't we see what people might offer for him? What if it's a haul? The alternative is possibly watching him wilt before our eyes with a stranglehold on our salary cap.

The fact that he went at Quick so hard--and Frentress before him--for nothing, literally NOTHING (read the article) is just more nonsense. I used to think it was funny--his self-motivating schtick--but now it just comes off as petty.
 
e_blazer said:
I'm not saying that what Quick has said here is sufficient for Dame to be coming down on him in the way that he has, but we don't know the backstory. I get the feeling that Dame feels he's shared some information with Quick, maybe about his injury status, and that Quick has failed to mention that mitigating information in his commentary. Let's say Dame tells him, off the record, that, yeah, he's really being bothered by his abdominal injury and has been since the Olympics, but he doesn't want to use it as an excuse. If that were the case, he may well feel that Quick has shafted him by saying that he's not earning his salary and is not likely to make the All-Star roster. Who knows? In the long run, it's a tempest in a teapot.
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Fair enough.
 
TBpup said:
That all seems quite fair. It would be disingenuous to say he was playing better than that. Now if Quick isn't allowed a reality based opinion, then that is probably more on the person taking in the information versus the person conveying it. Quick has had his issues in the passed, but this doesn't seem to be one of them.



To be fair, the Blazers aren't drawing fans for crap. It is no where near capacity and actual attendance is WAY under what is reported as ticket sales. And what Richman walked back had very little to do with what Dame seemed upset with Quick about. And again, one person wrote a piece that the most casual observer could tell simply by watching. One person referred to the other as a "snake".

Apparently, Quick needs to learn to only right positive, glowing articles, and if the obvious observance is different from that, then flat out lie.
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I think I've been clear as to how it comes across to me and when I said Dame is the draw....I wasn't referring to ticket sales...I was referring to a guy like Larry Nance wanting to be here or Enes, etc...he's how you get free agents or keep people you trade for wanting to be here....and I still think Quick kicked him when he was down unnecessarily...sure it got him some juice for the back and forth but trading Dame is something the franchise has been very public about not doing and after this summer of rumors around the guy....I think it was time for a different sort of Dame article to be written...to me it was a journalistic low blow. Sure Quick can do that...and I was enjoying his work until this popped up.. was disappointing to me for sure...Quick doesn't only need to write positive articles but he doesn't need to inflame a narrative that Dame worked all off season to dispell...and after dispelling it suggest trading him should be on the table....I'd have to say you and I are reading this through different lenses. Also sure we're not a great team this season so far but attendance is fueled by covid first and foremost....not disdain for the Blazers...although there's plenty of that to go around...covid is pretty much a crowd killer and people aren't exactly lining up to see guys who've never played an NBA game before try to compete.
 
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Propagandist said:
Dame is super duper disingenuous. The idea that everyone is just putting words into his mouth is just absurd. From the supposed unhappiness with the roster to the potential trade demand to the coaching selection stuff to the claim he did not having an injury when he obviously did, there has just been a lot of Dame Time Drama lately.

And I am saying this as a Dame believer and someone who considers him the best Blazer ever (or close with Clyde). That being said, if this season is any indication, we are facing the beginning of the decline of his career--it has to happen--so why on earth wouldn't we see what people might offer for him? What if it's a haul? The alternative is possibly watching him wilt before our eyes with a stranglehold on our salary cap.

The fact that he went at Quick so hard--and Frentress before him--for nothing, literally NOTHING (read the article) is just more nonsense. I used to think it was funny--his self-motivating schtick--but now it just comes off as petty.
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Coach Pop goes after the media harder than anybody in the league.....I completely disagree that any of this was Dame fueled drama or him not being 100% real about his commitment to the franchise and city.....he's in his prime, not on decline...he's just injured which I didn't ever hear him lie about....don't know where you got any of this from but I guess Quick has friends and supporters also willing to kick the man when he's down...his serious side has been directed at himself through this slump and how transparent do you want the guy to be? We don't even know the backstory but everyone who's been around him his whole career here counters what you just said about him. The next day Quick regretted making himself the story...
 
SlyPokerCat said:
Luka was just an example. He is close to 10 years younger and is arguably a better player than Dame. To not even consider that would be ridiculous.

What GMs agree with you?

Either way. Shutting down all offers without even hearing them for ANYONE in the league would be gross mismanagement of an organization.
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No thanks. Dame has been too good to us for that. Let the man retire here. Our job (meaning ownership/management) is to do what we can to get him a team he can win a title with.
 
riverman said:
Coach Pop goes after the media harder than anybody in the league.....I completely disagree that any of this was Dame fueled drama or him not being 100% real about his commitment to the franchise and city.....he's in his prime, not on decline...he's just injured which I didn't ever hear him lie about....don't know where you got any of this from but I guess Quick has friends and supporters also willing to kick the man when he's down...his serious side has been directed at himself through this slump and how transparent do you want the guy to be? We don't even know the backstory but everyone who's been around him his whole career here counters what you just said about him. The next day Quick regretted making himself the story...
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I never understand the comparing traits thing. But okay: Pop can be rude, sure, but one could argue he’s earned it with his championships, or one could argue it is his brand. Just like it’s Dame’s brand, but in Dame’s case it’s getting old and he certainly hasn’t earned the right to act like he wasn’t part of the virtually visible column of smoke billowing up from his camp over the summer.

But we’ve already hashed this stuff out. So regardless, the point is, if Dame ain’t declining, he’s playing the part wonderfully. We will likely lose him to old age and injury while he gets paid some obscene amount, so why not at least see if someone makes an offer we can’t refuse.

I used to think we owed Dame this and that, but really he’s benefited mightily here in Portland, and has done so without the pressure of a New York or LA media/fan base. In other words, it’s been mutually beneficial.

All this being said, there’s no way Cronin is trading Dame, like zero chance.
 
Propagandist said:
Surgery and a full recover and an awesome lottery pick would sure make this season more palatable.
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This is the way. Playing Dame now is just counterproductive. He's obviously still a top 10 player in the league when he's right. But once the injury flares up he's not.

Surgery or rest or whatever. Shut him down and focus on building the team for next season.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
This is the way. Playing Dame now is just counterproductive. He's obviously still a top 10 player in the league when he's right. But once the injury flares up he's not.

Surgey or rest or whatever. Shut him down and focus on building the team for next season.
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This would be good for everyone: Dame, the young guys, Chauncey, hell even Cronin. Ease that pressure that is clearly cooking everyone.
 
Phatguysrule said:
No thanks. Dame has been too good to us for that. Let the man retire here. Our job (meaning ownership/management) is to do what we can to get him a team he can win a title with.
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Good luck doing that with the assets we have. The only saving grace is if we get a high pick this year. So lets shut him down.

But again. To not listen to offers at all is ridiculous. Even if you don't want to trade him, nor plan to. Looking at all of your options is the sign of good management.
 
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