Trade Question

[Crimson the Cat]

Assuming Portland's target was Kirk Hinrich, would Chicago entertain this offer:

- Portland sends Outlaw and Ruffin to Chicago for Hinrich

The traded player exception we received mid-season would be used to make up the salary difference. Obviously this deal would need to be completed prior to July 1st.

I would think Chicago's first goal would be to find a shooting guard to possibly replace/upgrade Ben Gordon, but I just don't think they're going to find such a player. Instead I would think they'd be interested pairing up Outlaw with Thomas as their 4s.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Nevermind this wouldn't work under the CBA.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not sure if this is what you discovered when you said "this wouldn't work under the CBA," but it's worth noting that the trade exception can't be used in combination with other assets to match a salary. It constitutes its own "trade slot," so can only be dealt for something of similar financial value.

 

[Jayps15]

You can't combine the traded player exception we got from Diogu with anything else in an outgoing trade (unless you can finagle a non-simultaneous trade, and with only 1 contract coming back in Hinrich, you can't). We could still do the deal without the trade exception because we have the cap room to absorb the hit. And the Bull could apply for a trade exception worth the difference in outgoing salary. We'd also have to resign Ruffin before the trade because his contract is over (and no you can't just trade him before July 1st either).

But all that withstanding, no, I don't think Chicago would be interested in an Outlaw for Hinrich swap.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I'm not sure if this is what you discovered when you said "this wouldn't work under the CBA," but it's worth noting that the trade exception can't be used in combination with other assets to match a salary. It constitutes its own "trade slot," so can only be dealt for something of similar financial value.

Yeah. That's what I found out.

If the target was Hinrich, it looks like a third team would be needed. It just doesn't make sense for either team using their respective assets.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

We could still do the deal without the trade exception because we have the cap room to absorb the hit.

I didn't think of that. We could send Outlaw and a 2nd rounder for Hinrich and absorb about $3.5M. We'd have to wait to complete this after July 1st.

I'm thinking the Bulls would go for this depending on their other options.

 

[B-Roy]

Why don't you just add more if you want Hinrich?

It seems that after the playoffs, and seeing how vital Hinrich was to them, Chicago wouldn't want to get rid of him for some scraps.

Doubt they go for this.

 

[Denny Crane]

Rumor has it that Hinrich is going to Minnesota for the 6th pick in the draft.

The Bulls are very close to the LT threshold, and I don't think they want to lose him for similar salaries.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Why don't you just add more if you want Hinrich?

It seems that after the playoffs, and seeing how vital Hinrich was to them, Chicago wouldn't want to get rid of him for some scraps.

Doubt they go for this.

Outlaw and our #24 for Hinrich?

Outlaw and Serg for Hinrich?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'll make it easy.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ck43me
Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and the 24th pick for Kirk Hinrich and do it before June 30th.

If the Bulls really want to get below the luxury line they'd have the option of letting the two players walk for cap relief, since they are both on un-guaranteed contracts and the deadline to guarantee them is June 30th at Midnight. My guess is that might even keep a guy like Blake as a good high quality backup to Derrick Rose, who makes Backup point guard money and for all of his faults, Travis would still give them a good 3/4 who shoots the three well and is cheap at 3.6 million for one more year.

The Blazers would still have a decent chunk of cap space, a 2.9 million trade exception from the Ruffin deal to pursue a backup power forward and maybe add some veteran help to round out the roster

 

[B-Roy]

Again, that's if you believe Hinrich will put us over the top.

Personally, I'm not convinced. He's a better defending Steve Blake to me. We do need perimeter defense, but not at Hinrich's cost.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Again, that's if you believe Hinrich will put us over the top.

Personally, I'm not convinced. He's a better defending Steve Blake to me. We do need perimeter defense, but not at Hinrich's cost.

Let's put it this way. The only thing I believe that is going to put us over the top is if Oden taps into his full potential. Getting a solid point guard upgrade and having a third go-to scorer is important, but it's all window dressing compared to this factor.

 

[Minstrel]

Again, that's if you believe Hinrich will put us over the top.

Personally, I'm not convinced. He's a better defending Steve Blake to me. We do need perimeter defense, but not at Hinrich's cost.

If Pritchard can use the money better, great. If not, I'd be perfectly happy absorbing Hinrich's salary. I'd say he's a rich man's Blake...a conservative point guard who can shoot the ball, pass the ball better than Blake and defend much better than Blake.

Hinrich might be a bit overpaid, but not by enough for it to be the sort of awful contract Portland should avoid. As I said, if Pritchard can find a better use of the cap space, then that's good. Otherwise, I'd rather take Hinrich than get nothing for the cap space and lose it anyway next off-season. Hinrich may not put the team over the top, but he'll get the team closer. Other factors (a resurgent Oden, major improvements from players like Aldridge, Batum, Fernandez or Bayless) could then put Portland over the top.

 

[SteelBlaze1]

Let's put it this way. The only thing I believe that is going to put us over the top is if Oden taps into his full potential. Getting a solid point guard upgrade and having a third go-to scorer is important, but it's all window dressing compared to this factor.

I think that we should be pushing to upgrade the PG spot (through trade (Hinrich or other)...or FA (Miller) and not through the draft (Rubio, Curry, Jennings, etc.).

I also agree that we should hope our own guys (Oden mainly) get A LOT better this off-season. We did after all win 54 games this year. I would hope that doing that and gaining playoff experience would go a long way toward a better year this year.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Rumor has it that Hinrich is going to Minnesota for the 6th pick in the draft.

The Bulls are very close to the LT threshold, and I don't think they want to lose him for similar salaries.

Interesting. In that case we'd have to offer Bayless, Rudy, or Nic to equal or trump that. That's not happening.

I wonder if a three-way could be worked out?

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I'll make it easy.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ck43me
Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and the 24th pick for Kirk Hinrich and do it before June 30th.

Hmm. I had thought of that, but I see a major problem. I don't think the Blazers want to lose Steve Blake, at least not for Hinrich. Adding a combination of Hinrich and Bayless to our rotation just doesn't improve us THAT much to warrant moving these three quality assets. It's more of a lateral move, IMO. Now having Hinrich AND Blake in place of Blake and Sergio is another story. Huge upgrade overall.

 

[Minstrel]

Hmm. I had thought of that, but I see a major problem. I don't think the Blazers want to lose Steve Blake, at least not for Hinrich. Adding a combination of Hinrich and Bayless to our rotation just doesn't improve us THAT much to warrant moving these three quality assets. It's more of a lateral move, IMO.

I don't agree with that. Hinrich's defense alone will make a large difference over Blake. I also think Hinrich is a better passer, but that's a smaller difference.

I'd like to keep Blake. However, I think Bayless will be an adequate backup next season, so it's not a major imperative to me. I'm not ready to hand Bayless the keys, but I am willing to let him suck up backup minutes behind Hinrich. Especially if Bayless' time on the floor is during times that Roy is also on the floor.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I don't agree with that. Hinrich's defense alone will make a large difference over Blake. I also think Hinrich is a better passer, but that's a smaller difference.

I'd like to keep Blake. However, I think Bayless will be an adequate backup next season, so it's not a major imperative to me. I'm not ready to hand Bayless the keys, but I am willing to let him suck up backup minutes behind Hinrich. Especially if Bayless' time on the floor is during times that Roy is also on the floor.

Agreed about Hinrich vs. Blake. Disagree about Sergio vs. Bayless. I've seen very little so far that would indicate that Bayless will be as good for us as Sergio. But then I'm still higher on Sergio and lower on Bayless than most.

 

[B-Roy]

The main reason I'm not behind the Hinrich bandwagon is of course money, but also because he's terrible at creating for himself. This is the same problem we have with Blake. I can't stand when our offense gets so stagnant it just becomes Roy 1v1, over and over.

Personally, I think we should put all our marbles on Turkoglu.

Hmm. I had thought of that, but I see a major problem. I don't think the Blazers want to lose Steve Blake, at least not for Hinrich. Adding a combination of Hinrich and Bayless to our rotation just doesn't improve us THAT much to warrant moving these three quality assets. It's more of a lateral move, IMO. Now having Hinrich AND Blake in place of Blake and Sergio is another story. Huge upgrade overall.

That's the kind of deal you need to get Hinrich though. Plus, having both Blake and Hinrich is really redundant. Don't want to see that.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Hinrich has to be the most overrated player on the Blazer message boards, outside the players on the team.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Hinrich has to be the most overrated player on the Blazer message boards, outside the players on the team.

Are you going to argue that He isn't that much better than Blake? I believe he would be a nice upgrade.

 

[Trader Ed]

not sure it makes any sense but just tossing it out there.. amodified idea from a poster on RealGM

say we trade Sergio and the #24 for the #8 via NY TE

then say nothing else happens on draft day

on July 1 our cap figue according to Storyteller is $51.48 (less Sergio + #8) with an estimated cap of $58.68 mil leaving us $7.2 mil in room

we add Sergio's $1.5 mil back onto the room and its $8.7 mil
we do not have a #24 so we add $0.9 mil back onto it giving us $9.6 mil in cap room

Hinrich makes $9.5 mil....

any chance a deal for Hinrich can be made at that time... Hinrich for the #8 since we have not signed him yet (whoever it is)?

and giving them a $9.5 mil TE

We can send them Outlaw and Blake if they want them and keep the #8 for something else...

thoughts?

 

[Crimson the Cat]

say we trade Sergio and the #24 for the #8 via NY TE

Maybe Chicago would be cool with that second part, but where I think it falls apart is getting NY to give us the #8 for that package. It's just not enough. They'd either want more talent then the #24 or for us to take a bad contract off their hands.

NY's motivated by clearing cap space. Consolidating the #8 and a bad contract for good pieces that don't run longer than a year's commitment would be their goal IMO.

Jeffries and #8 for Outlaw and Rodriguez makes the most sense for both sides.

Jeffries would be a good locker room guy, giving us as much as Frye IMO.

 

[Trader Ed]

yeah I hear ya on part 1....

it is a bit of a stretch... would be great but...