Trade the vets?

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Which of these should be traded by this season's trade deadline?

  • Total voters
    72
Brogdon- I think he’s saying all the right things but I think he probably wants to be on a contender.

Grant- we have some interesting prospects to play at power forward. I think he becomes harder to trade as the contract goes on.

Williams - I don’t want the injury history. If there’s a good trade there, you move him.
 
e_blazer said:
Simons and Brogdon are the only solid three point threats on the roster. So, of course, let’s trade them and spend the winter watching opponents clog the middle against the Blazers.
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I wouldn’t trade both. One or the other.
 
Grant is allergic to rebounding. Has to be one of the worst in the league for his size. He simply cannot be bothered with going after rebounds. Now clapping your hands standing waiting for the ball? He's the guy.
 
e_blazer said:
Simons and Brogdon are the only solid three point threats on the roster. So, of course, let’s trade them and spend the winter watching opponents clog the middle against the Blazers.
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Ant shot about 38% on 9.1 three's a game last season. Grant + Sharpe shot 36% on 9.2 three's/game (that's using Grant's career mark, not his 40% clip from last season)

if you assume 72 games, using last season's numbers, Ant would convert 249 three's. Grant + Sharpe would convert 238 three's. So, less than 1 more three every 6 games. About a 32 point total difference over 72 games. Or about .44 points/game. The question then becomes, how many more points would Ant's defense give up on the other end compared to Grant/Sharpe?

And again, Grant shot 40% last season on three's, not 36%

also, PER/36, Sharpe grabbed 2.1 more rebounds than Ant and 1 more offensive rebound

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so, even after completely discounting defense, Ant's 0.44 point advantage on three's would be offset by that 1.13 points from Sharpe's offensive rebound (for instance); net would be +0.69 points/36

obviously, that's a simplistic breakdown with no certain outcomes, and a 1 for 2 comparison, but it does demonstrate there are more factors than just 'spreading the floor'. Ant may be better at spreading a defense, but he's worse in a lot of other areas

keep Brogdon, trade Ant?
 
wizenheimer said:
Ant shot about 38% on 9.1 three's a game last season. Grant + Sharpe shot 36% on 9.2 three's/game (that's using Grant's career mark, not his 40% clip from last season)

if you assume 72 games, using last season's numbers, Ant would convert 249 three's. Grant + Sharpe would convert 238 three's. So, less than 1 more three every 6 games. About a 32 point total difference over 72 games. Or about .44 points/game. The question then becomes, how many more points would Ant's defense give up on the other end compared to Grant/Sharpe?

And again, Grant shot 40% last season on three's, not 36%

also, PER/36, Sharpe grabbed 2.1 more rebounds than Ant and 1 more offensive rebound

View attachment 58270

so, even after completely discounting defense, Ant's 0.44 point advantage on three's would be offset by that 1.13 points from Sharpe's offensive rebound (for instance); net would be +0.69 points/36

obviously, that's a simplistic breakdown with no certain outcomes, and a 1 for 2 comparison, but it does demonstrate there are more factors than just 'spreading the floor'. Ant may be better at spreading a defense, but he's worse in a lot of other areas

keep Brogdon, trade Ant?
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If Brogdon is okay staying, I think he makes a lot of sense as our sixth man. Marang said that the young players already look up to him and respect him.

He also said that the team is going to be Ant/Ayton pick and roles all season. He thinks that Simons will be the primary ball handler.
 
I’m actually hoping Simons starts the year hot and he goes on the market. I’d take a solid young wing or big for him. Maybe like a Wendell Carter. Or pry that wing from the Pelican’s away.
 
I don’t think having vets is a bad thing. We saw what happened with Kai Jones, Ja, and there’s going to be more and more instances like that around the league as time goes on. Right now, vets can go as demand for them around the league goes up.

Brogdon is saying all the right things, which is great PR-wise and for team morale. I’m sure he’ll end up where he wants to go when the price is right. The only real immediate need to move Brogdon would be if Sharpe demands minutes. Until he changes his mental approach to the game and shows rapid improvement, we can wait until the market value is a young player + a 1st. I like Brogdon + a 2nd for Kobe Brown + Morris + ‘28 unprotected 1st right now.

Grant is someone I’d like traded by the deadline. I don’t fear his contract looking worse because the cap will keep jump. I do fear that we lose out on his full value once he is past 30. If he’s traded before the deadline, he realistically has 4 real prime years to help a contending team.

Thybulle doesn’t need to be traded until any of Camara, Walker, and Murray show they need minutes to develop. I think that at this point, his reputation as a defender is cemented even if we have a terrible defensive ranking. If he keeps shooting 3’s like he has, teams like Dallas might be clamoring to give up more than just a 1st for him.

Ant is obviously going to net the biggest return. I think that at his absolute peak value to us, he’ll be worth a lotto pick in this next draft + whatever else. I don’t think he will be on the roster next year.
 
Cronin will probably just let the market dictate when we trade the vets. Brogdon will probably be the first one traded. If he gets traded, it’ll likely be for a 1st and a young forward. Thybulle will probably be the next guy, who will probably be traded by the deadline for maximum value once we have a clearer idea of the Camara vs Murray vs Walker battle. Grant will be traded between the deadline and the draft, and Ant will likely be traded by the draft.
 
This three team trade makes sense for all teams involved. We would have to cut Young and Porter. I think Ant gives the Raptors the offensive firepower they're lacking and his age fits well with OG and Barnes but Ant also has experience. Brogdon is the definition of Heat culture and they get to put him and Herro in the back court together. We still have a mentor off of the bench for our young guards and this guy is a former all star and champion. Trade Grant near the deadline for a FRP and expirings.
upload_2023-10-14_14-39-10.png
 
I like our team. If it were up to me, we'd revisit this as the trade deadline approaches, but otherwise I think we should give these guys a chance.
 
blazerkor said:
This three team trade makes sense for all teams involved. We would have to cut Young and Porter. I think Ant gives the Raptors the offensive firepower they're lacking and his age fits well with OG and Barnes but Ant also has experience. Brogdon is the definition of Heat culture and they get to put him and Herro in the back court together. We still have a mentor off of the bench for our young guards and this guy is a former all star and champion. Trade Grant near the deadline for a FRP and expirings.
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don't trust the Canadians. They traded us Powell, and we had to eat Clippers bad contracts just to get ridda him.
 
riverman said:
Trade Ant...otherwise keep the gang together and try to win. I voted for both. I'm not giving up on Grant or Brogdan at all but I gave up on Ant 2 years ago
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Yeah good vets help the young players development not hurt. So long as they are getting the minutes.
 
Simons, Grant, and Brogdon, if we can get first rounders in return.
 
e_blazer said:
Simons and Brogdon are the only solid three point threats on the roster. So, of course, let’s trade them and spend the winter watching opponents clog the middle against the Blazers.
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Didn't Jeremi Grant shoot 40% from 3s last season? & Shaedon 36%?

The Trailblazers are in remodeling mode and as such should have all chips on the table regardless of short term consequences.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
Didn't Jeremi Grant shoot 40% from 3s last season? & Shaedon 36%?

The Trailblazers are in remodeling mode and as such should have all chips on the table regardless of short term consequences.

STOMP
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Yes, he did. I think he's mainly a catch and shoot guy rather than being able to create too much. He's also listed as one of the trade bait guys in the poll. I don't have any problems with trading any or all of them for the right package, but I'm not in the "have to trade player X" mode that so many around here seem to be.
 
e_blazer said:
Yes, he did. I think he's mainly a catch and shoot guy rather than being able to create too much. He's also listed as one of the trade bait guys in the poll.
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Agreed, but thats not what you stated that I responded to, that... "Simons and Brogdon are the only solid three point threats on the roster." Especially with a draw and kick creator like Scoot collapsing the D, solid catch and shoot 3 point shooters (I listed two more not one) are absolutely solid 3 point threats.

Klay Thompson is almost solely a catch and shoot guy, he does almost nothing off the dribble. Reggie Miller, Ray Allen... from what you've written, it reads that some of the greatest 3 point shooters in league history are/were not 3 point threats. Part of the effectiveness of having guys like Grant and Shaedon on the perimeter is that it keeps the D spread out just because of the threat of their 3 ball opening the paint for others to drive.

btw, I voted for Brogdon and Grant in this poll mostly because they're older and are unlikely to be part of the next Blazer championship(s). I would only be for trading them though (and others like Williams) if a solid return was coming back. I'd prefer Joe seek this return mainly in draft capitol and expiring contracts to better align the team's timeline. My expectation is that better timeline fitting FA's and traded for players will be added down the line when their young guards are coming into their own but still on rookie deals.

STOMP
 
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Assuming these trades are at the deadline after we've figured out what the group looks like, I'm most on board with moving Grant, then Williams, then Simons. Grant and Williams aren't really part of our future, but despite some people's protestations, Simons might be; I'd only trade Simons if he's a net negative to our team identity. And if we massively exceed expectations, and I mean to a level where they'd want to make a Hollywood movie about the season, we keep them all and let it ride.
 
STOMP said:
Agreed, but thats not what you stated that I responded to, that... "Simons and Brogdon are the only solid three point threats on the roster." Especially with a draw and kick creator like Scoot collapsing the D, solid catch and shoot 3 point shooters (I listed two more not one) are absolutely solid 3 point threats.

Klay Thompson is almost solely a catch and shoot guy, he does almost nothing off the dribble. Reggie Miller, Ray Allen... from what you've written, it reads that some of the greatest 3 point shooters in league history are/were not 3 point threats. Part of the effectiveness of having guys like Grant and Shaedon on the perimeter is that it keeps the D spread out just because of the threat of their 3 ball opening the paint for others to drive.

btw, I voted for Brogdon and Grant in this poll mostly because they're older and are unlikely to be part of the next Blazer championship(s). I would only be for trading them though (and others like Williams) if a solid return was coming back. I'd prefer Joe seek this return mainly in draft capitol and expiring contracts to better align the team's timeline. My expectation is that better timeline fitting FA's and traded for players will be added down the line when their young guards are coming into their own but still on rookie deals.

STOMP
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Yeah, right after I posted that I realized I had forgotten Grant. I thought about editing my post, but was too lazy.

I’d say Grant is the most likely guy to be traded because of his age and contract. Brogdan fills a need as backup PG and the team needs a veteran voice or two. I think Simons is the least likely to get traded. Age, offense and contract make him a solid choice as a keeper.
 
e_blazer said:
Yeah, right after I posted that I realized I had forgotten Grant. I thought about editing my post, but was too lazy.

I’d say Grant is the most likely guy to be traded because of his age and contract. Brogdan fills a need as backup PG and the team needs a veteran voice or two. I think Simons is the least likely to get traded. Age, offense and contract make him a solid choice as a keeper.
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Honestly I'd be most happy about this, though I don't mind if Grant stays as long as he buys in and plays well. Teams can take many shapes and be successful.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
All of them? And get 75 million back in ending contracts? That does not excite me at all.
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Well I think you'd obviously want replacement players you could use or fit team needs better. Ant isn't a good shooting guard, and he can't be our PG. So deal him for somebody who fits better and a good first rounder.

Obviously if you can trade him for a legit starting wing or PF you don't need a first rounder in return.

Same deal with Grant. I don't think he'll help us play winning basketball, so move him.
 
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