Trade Webster ASAP?

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Rastapopoulos said:
So... you play Blake ZERO minutes, and Outlaw NO minutes at the three (and only 15 total), both of which are unrealistically small, and you STILL only have 8 minutes left for Webster? I think that makes my point.
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What's the point? Bayless will get a lot of minutes at the 2, pushing Rudy's minutes back.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Rasta, so you see us re-signing Outlaw this summer?
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Yes, unless some other team throws money at him, and maybe even then. I think he's a loyal guy (like McDyess back in the day) and I think he has a lot of teammates, and Roy in particular, who will lobby hard to keep him.

If there were teams (and Boston and Memphis have been mentioned in the past) who really wanted him and were prepared to offer us something stellar for him right now, then maybe he's traded. But if he ends the year with us, I see him being re-signed. UNLESS
(a) we can't ditch Webster AND
(b) Paul Allen's situation changes and suddenly the money dries up.
 
This is Outlaw's big money offer. He's going to go to the highest bidder. I'm not sure, I'd guess he'd be in the $6-7 million dollar a year range ending at $8-ish.
 
yuyuza1 said:
That's what I was trying to do. One of either Outlaw or Webster (along with Blake) have to go. There are too few minutes for either of them to be effective, but even then I'd probably keep Outlaw because he can switch onto PF if needed, which Webster can't do.
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I know, but my solution is this: Quit trying to make people happy. Some players sit on teams, that is just a fact of life. Better players play, worse players sit. Except when Nate is coach, and you have to virtually trade some players off the team to get him to quit playing them.

I don't feel sorry for any player who has to collect an NBA paycheck while playing zero minutes. So sad!:devilwink:
 
hasoos said:
Thats not the problem. The problem is, who will pull the trigger from the other side?

I have seen several trade "rumor" shows on NBATV over the last few days, and the weirdest thing is even the agents are saying that there are no trade rumors with legs right now.
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That's part of why I've only come up with a small range, because I set myself the following restrictions:
1) Must be with an Eastern Conference team (I think everyone in the West hates the Blazers)
2) Must either feature a fairly scrubby player with an expiring contract (Scalabrine, Brown), or a player we can use with a contract that his team regrets (Bass, Hinrich).
 
hasoos said:
I know, but my solution is this: Quit trying to make people happy. Some players sit on teams, that is just a fact of life. Better players play, worse players sit. Except when Nate is coach, and you have to virtually trade some players off the team to get him to quit playing them.
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I think that's shortsighted and leads to underachieving teams. You should never be hired in management with that attitude.

I don't feel sorry for any player who has to collect an NBA paycheck while playing zero minutes. So sad!
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It's not a matter of feeling sorry for them, it's a matter of squeezing the most out of them. Some players only play well when they feel threatened (otherwise they just relax). Others, and it's my firm impression that Martell is one of these, only play well when they don't. If we had hardly anyone at the swing position, then Martell would be much more valuable to us. As it is, that's crowded with players who deserve minutes more than he does, and meanwhile, we're STARVED for big bodies.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Two for one. That's called a "consolidation trade" for a reason. And Hinrich is better than either.

Have people forgotten what it was like before Outlaw and Oden went down? Underperforming play, bitching from the fans, tension over minutes. That's why you make trades - a team with minutes crunches has a bad lockerroom, more often than not.

Martell has been great for us when he can just play. Remember his 25 point quarter against Utah? Wasn't Roy out for that game? But he deserves better than just to be a rainy day policy.
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I haven't. I am assuming it will return to that team dynamic when Outlaw returns.


However, I don't think there is anyway in the world that KP trades anyone in the middle of a season. Nate is going to have to figure it out.

Too bad I have almost zero faith that Nate is capable of solving this puzzle.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I think that's shortsighted and leads to underachieving teams. You should never be hired in management with that attitude.



It's not a matter of feeling sorry for them, it's a matter of squeezing the most out of them. Some players only play well when they feel threatened (otherwise they just relax). Others, and it's my firm impression that Martell is one of these, only play well when they don't. If we had hardly anyone at the swing position, then Martell would be much more valuable to us. As it is, that's crowded with players who deserve minutes more than he does, and meanwhile, we're STARVED for big bodies.
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Management of a basketball team and management in business are two different things, don't try to make them the same because they are not. If they were, Gilbert Arenas would have already been fired and his contract torn up. The NBA is dominated by the players with a higher talent level who can make a difference in a game. You win by having them out on the floor playing well together. Not by having the happiest role players.
 
RR7 said:
Scalabrine, Bass and Hinrich aren't Cs either. Why not figure out some trades to actually help the team, then, as opposed to just dumping Webster.
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Thanks for your help.

Right, none are centers. But getting Hinrich also means getting rid of Blake, which means two players get crunched into one. It doesn't solve all the minutes problems, but it does a little, and even if not, Hinrich is a better defender than either, and has proven to be a very good +/- guy for the Bulls.

Meanwhile both Bass and Scalabrine are primarily 4s. Bass is younger and more athletic than Howard, better than Pendergraph, and bigger than Cunningham. Scalabrine would be there when we need to drag a 4 out of the paint to guard him at the 3 point line.

I'd love to get Gortat for Webster, but the Magic are NOT trading Gortat, so there's no point in suggesting it.
 
All right, how about Webster, Blake AND Przybilla for Elton Brand?

Why does Philly do it? Because they would do ANYTHING to get rid of Brand's contract, even take on Prz (waiving the physical) because he has 2 years less on his contract.

Why do we do it? Because Brand can play, and can even play C because of his HUMUNGOUS arms.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
All right, how about Webster, Blake AND Przybilla for Elton Brand?

Why does Philly do it? Because they would do ANYTHING to get rid of Brand's contract, even take on Prz (waiving the physical) because he has 2 years less on his contract.

Why do we do it? Because Brand can play, and can even play C because of his HUMUNGOUS arms.
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I'd consider it. Brand seems to be regaining at least a little of his old form (though his all-star days are probably long gone). But the big caveat for me, is what about the looming lockout and a potential hard cap in two more years? I'd be plenty bummed out if we couldn't extend one of our own free agents like Nic because Brand is eating 18 million that year in cap room.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
All right, how about Webster, Blake AND Przybilla for Elton Brand?

Why does Philly do it? Because they would do ANYTHING to get rid of Brand's contract, even take on Prz (waiving the physical) because he has 2 years less on his contract.

Why do we do it? Because Brand can play, and can even play C because of his HUMUNGOUS arms.
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$14.8m
$15.9m
$17.0m
$18.1m

Entourage-GTFO.gif
 
There's a reason why they'd do anything to get rid of Brand's contract. Old and overpaid. Terrible combo.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
When has Martell ever faced competition for minutes well? The only time he plays well is when he knows that there's literally NOBODY else the team can turn to. Witness his 48 minutes game.

He WAS playing better and better. Now Batum's back, and he's wilting. This is not a new phenomenon with Martell.
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Martell has competed for, and won, the starting spot at least twice that I can remember. I don't remember him actually losing it, other than to injury.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Two for one. That's called a "gift" for a reason. And Hinrich is better than neither.
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fixed. :cheers:

Seriously, I am so tired of hearing how our depth is actually just a bunch of crappy players.

Our record, reality, and the opinions of nearly all people actually making their livings playing in, managing in, coaching in or reporting on the NBA say just the opposite.

Portland may be the only NBA team whose fans consistently UNDER-RATE the players.

And Hinrich is nothing KP or Nate would waste time and money on.
 
Buzz Killington said:
This is Outlaw's big money offer. He's going to go to the highest bidder. I'm not sure, I'd guess he'd be in the $6-7 million dollar a year range ending at $8-ish.
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coming off a season ending injury in this economic climate? he'll be lucky to get MLE.
 
MARIS61 said:
fixed. :cheers:

Seriously, I am so tired of hearing how our depth is actually just a bunch of crappy players.

Our record, reality, and the opinions of nearly all people actually making their livings playing in, managing in, coaching in or reporting on the NBA say just the opposite.

Portland may be the only NBA team whose fans consistently UNDER-RATE the players.

And Hinrich is nothing KP or Nate would waste time and money on.
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:huh:
 
Nikolokolus said:
the big caveat for me, is what about the looming lockout and a potential hard cap in two more years? I'd be plenty bummed out if we couldn't extend one of our own free agents like Nic because Brand is eating 18 million that year in cap room.
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Agreed - that is a danger. BUT: any speculation about a hard cap is just that. And you can bet that even if there was one, it would be phased in slowly, because a bunch of teams would be in the same situation.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Agreed - that is a danger. BUT: any speculation about a hard cap is just that. And you can bet that even if there was one, it would be phased in slowly, because a bunch of teams would be in the same situation.
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:dunno: I just think there are cheaper options out there that are just as 'good.' I'm still holding out hope that some kind of trade will be made between the Wiz and Blazers for Haywood.
 
Nikolokolus said:
:dunno: I just think there are cheaper options out there that are just as 'good.' I'm still holding out hope that some kind of trade will be made between the Wiz and Blazers for Haywood.
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I think you're going to have to give up that dream, for the following reasons:
1. Asking for Batum AND Fernandez is just too ridiculous. Either they're just mocking us, or they're WILDLY overvaluing him.
2. They don't HAVE to trade him. They're in full break-down mode, and his contract expires at the end of the season. They're not even particularly interested in moving him, I bet, unless it's along with one of their catastrophic contracts.

But anyway, I'm suspicious of Haywood. He's been a career chronic underachiever, he's actually gotten into fights with teammate(s), and suddenly he's great because he's putting up semi-decent stats on a stinky team in a contract year? Plus there was that whole Tiger-Woods-shoulda-slugged her back thing. He doesn't do it for me, quite frankly.
 
To alleviate the time crunch, I would like to see a combination of Blake, Outlaw, Rudy, and Joel moved. I want to ensure there is plenty of playing time for Bayless, Batum, and to a certain extent Pendergraph and Cunningham. Webster is an enigma for me. I love what he brings to the team, shooting, defense, energy... but he has always had confidence issues and we've seen a drop in his production since Nic came back.

I want to hold onto Jerryd because I think he can play both guard positions, which I'm not convinced Rudy can do. With a three guard lineup of Miller, Roy, and Bayless, I think we're in good shape for the next few years.

I think we should target a f/c because when Oden comes back, they can backup both Greg and LMA. There should be plenty of minutes to go around. Pendy might be that guy, but I'm not sure he can do the backup center job.

Rudy/Blake/Outlaw for Okafor.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykb74of

New Orleans is sunk without Paul. Okafor is a big contract with five years left. He starts for us immediately and then he backs up both front court spots next year when Greg comes back. If Greg never gets healthy again, Okafor is a nice replacement long term.

Miller/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Bayless/Webster
Batum/Webster/Cunningham
Aldridge/Okafor/Pendergraph
Okafor/Howard/Oden (until healthy)
 
Natebishop3 said:
To alleviate the time crunch, I would like to see a combination of Blake, Outlaw, Rudy, and Joel moved. I want to ensure there is plenty of playing time for Bayless, Batum, and to a certain extent Pendergraph and Cunningham. Webster is an enigma for me. I love what he brings to the team, shooting, defense, energy... but he has always had confidence issues and we've seen a drop in his production since Nic came back.

I want to hold onto Jerryd because I think he can play both guard positions, which I'm not convinced Rudy can do. With a three guard lineup of Miller, Roy, and Bayless, I think we're in good shape for the next few years.

I think we should target a f/c because when Oden comes back, they can backup both Greg and LMA. There should be plenty of minutes to go around. Pendy might be that guy, but I'm not sure he can do the backup center job.

Rudy/Blake/Outlaw for Okafor.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykb74of

New Orleans is sunk without Paul. Okafor is a big contract with five years left. He starts for us immediately and then he backs up both front court spots next year when Greg comes back. If Greg never gets healthy again, Okafor is a nice replacement long term.

Miller/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Bayless/Webster
Batum/Webster/Cunningham
Aldridge/Okafor/Pendergraph
Okafor/Howard/Oden (until healthy)
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+1. Except I value Rudy more than Bayless.
 
MARIS61 said:
fixed. :cheers:

Portland may be the only NBA team whose fans consistently UNDER-RATE the players.
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Dude, I am only saying this cuz I care: the next time you get bit by a rattlesnake, try to get medical attention *before* the hallucinations start. :cheers:
 
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