Trades that "move the needle"

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And then tell them "Wait, there's more! Were gonna give you Crabbes!"
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
This Melo Maddness is easily squashed.
Ask yourself, what are the Blazers doing well? Why are they getting open shots? Hint: Ball movement

Conclusion: Bad fit. Melo doesn't pass the ball.

Ask yourself what the Blazers aren't doing well? Why are teams scoring? Hint: lacking defense

Conclusion: Bad fit. Melo doesn't play defense.

Why would Melo every come to Portland when he forced a trade out of Denver?

Conclusion: Bad fit. He would never want to be in Portland.

Why are people suggesting a trade for Melo?

Conclusion: People don't think past their fantasy basketball rosters, and my God have mercy on your soul.
Click to expand...

I have given several reasons why I believe Melo would be a good addition to this roster. Saying all I want him for is my fantasy basketball team is creating a straw man argument, that seem to be the norm around here. (especially considering that is NOT how fantasy basketball works...) The blazers have been projected to be somewhere in the 6-8 seeds in the West this year. We have beat Denver, San Antonio, 2x Sacramento, Detroit, Phoenix, Toronto, Brooklyn, Milwaukee and Boston. We SHOULD have beat all those teams, with the exception of San Antonio. That we are beating the teams we should beat is progress! It's a very positive sign that we're headed in the right direction. But so many are already counting on this continuing and us ending up as a top 4 seed. I am not sure that will happen and even if it does we are second round fodder, much like the Hawks of the last decade have been. To put us among the best teams in the league we need another superstar and Melo fits that bill. Yes his defense is subpar but his offensive game more than makes up for it. No one can stop him, including LeBron.

Also I am a Green Bay PAckers fan so forget the Christian Ponder jokes. Collarbone jokes would wound me much more
 
ponderguy said:
I have given several reasons why I believe Melo would be a good addition to this roster. Saying all I want him for is my fantasy basketball team is creating a straw man argument, that seem to be the norm around here. (especially considering that is NOT how fantasy basketball works...) The blazers have been projected to be somewhere in the 6-8 seeds in the West this year. We have beat Denver, San Antonio, 2x Sacramento, Detroit, Phoenix, Toronto, Brooklyn, Milwaukee and Boston. We SHOULD have beat all those teams, with the exception of San Antonio. That we are beating the teams we should beat is progress! It's a very positive sign that we're headed in the right direction. But so many are already counting on this continuing and us ending up as a top 4 seed. I am not sure that will happen and even if it does we are second round fodder, much like the Hawks of the last decade have been. To put us among the best teams in the league we need another superstar and Melo fits that bill. Yes his defense is subpar but his offensive game more than makes up for it. No one can stop him, including LeBron.

Also I am a Green Bay PAckers fan so forget the Christian Ponder jokes. Collarbone jokes would wound me much more
Click to expand...

Why couldn't dame be our superstar? I'm not getting your idea that melo would make us better. He plays on a team that is an nba darling and they only won 2 fucking games. Aren't you tired of ISO offense? Aren't you grasping how horrid our defense is? Don't you understand that melo is worse of a defender than Batum?

It doesn't add up! Now if you are talking about players like Noah or Horford, you have a point. Bringing an offensive ball hog isn't the key.
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
This Melo Maddness is easily squashed.

Ask yourself, what are the Blazers doing well? Why are they getting open shots? Hint: Ball movement

Conclusion: Bad fit. Melo doesn't pass the ball.

Ask yourself what the Blazers aren't doing well? Why are teams scoring? Hint: lacking defense

Conclusion: Bad fit. Melo doesn't play defense.

Why would Melo every come to Portland when he forced a trade out of Denver?

Conclusion: Bad fit. He would never want to be in Portland.

Why are people suggesting a trade for Melo?

Conclusion: People don't think past their fantasy basketball rosters, and my God have mercy on your soul.
Click to expand...
"People," lol...
 
ponderguy said:
I have given several reasons why I believe Melo would be a good addition to this roster. Saying all I want him for is my fantasy basketball team is creating a straw man argument, that seem to be the norm around here. (especially considering that is NOT how fantasy basketball works...) The blazers have been projected to be somewhere in the 6-8 seeds in the West this year. We have beat Denver, San Antonio, 2x Sacramento, Detroit, Phoenix, Toronto, Brooklyn, Milwaukee and Boston. We SHOULD have beat all those teams, with the exception of San Antonio. That we are beating the teams we should beat is progress! It's a very positive sign that we're headed in the right direction. But so many are already counting on this continuing and us ending up as a top 4 seed. I am not sure that will happen and even if it does we are second round fodder, much like the Hawks of the last decade have been. To put us among the best teams in the league we need another superstar and Melo fits that bill. Yes his defense is subpar but his offensive game more than makes up for it. No one can stop him, including LeBron.

Also I am a Green Bay PAckers fan so forget the Christian Ponder jokes. Collarbone jokes would wound me much more
Click to expand...
"We," lol...
 
magnifier661 said:
It doesn't add up! Now if you are talking about players like Noah or Horford, you have a point. Bringing an offensive ball hog isn't the key.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree with this, Melo is not a superstar talent. He is a great offensive player and a horrible defender. Noah or Horford are both far superior players. I'd love to get one of them.
 
Draco said:
Yeah I agree with this, Melo is not a superstar talent. He is a great offensive player and a horrible defender. Noah or Horford are both far superior players. I'd love to get one of them.
Click to expand...

I would give batum or Matthews, Barton, Leonard, Claver, And CJ for either one of them.
 
magnifier661 said:
Why couldn't dame be our superstar? I'm not getting your idea that melo would make us better. He plays on a team that is an nba darling and they only won 2 fucking games. Aren't you tired of ISO offense? Aren't you grasping how horrid our defense is? Don't you understand that melo is worse of a defender than Batum?

It doesn't add up! Now if you are talking about players like Noah or Horford, you have a point. Bringing an offensive ball hog isn't the key.
Click to expand...

It's not his fault they've only won two games. He has Raymond Felton running the point, A'Mare Stoudemire getting minutes and no Tyson Chandler. The Knicks are in a bad situation with no picks and no up and coming players outside of Shumpert. You need players that can create for themselves and Melo can do that. Our defense is already terrible, adding Melo won't make it any worse but he can make our offense even better. Think about what he's being asked to do in New York. He has to carry that team because there is no one else on that roster even near the level of Dame or LMA. A'Mare was supposed to be his #2 but he's hasn't been good since 2010 now. I would love Shumpert back in the deal because he would legitimately help our perimeter defense. He may not be the offensive weapon Wes is but he is a better defender and more athletic. He also has some PG skills and would fit nicely next to Dame or McCollum. He wouldn't make up for the loss of Batum & Wes completely but he would be able to match up on many wings and point guards and lock them down. Stotts could do so much more offensively with a core of LMA/Melo/Lillard than he can with LMA/Dame/Nic/Wes. Nic & Wes are both limited offensive players.
 
ponderguy said:
Our defense is already terrible, adding Melo won't make it any worse but he can make our offense even better.
Click to expand...
No. He absolutely WILL make our defense worse. If you're replacing one of our better defensive players (Nic) with one of the worst defensive players in the league (Melo), then common sense tells you that your defense just got worse. Just because we're bad now doesn't mean we can't get worse.

Also, there is a huge offensive trade-off and it's no guarantee that he'd make our offense better. You're shipping out our team's best passer (Nic) for someone who doesn't pass (Melo). So, while Melo does have the ability to dominate the post (something we could really use) he's not the sort of player that's going to make his teammates better.

I think the trade has the potential to make us a better Playoff team, but would almost certainly make us a worse regular season team.
 
Ponderguy, I really hope you run the "long con" and don't jump the gun and post the dick pics too soon. So far your dedication to staying in character is laudable.
 
magnifier661 said:
It's really moot though. Honestly, I think it would require both Matthews and Batum. I don't know if I could do that.
Click to expand...

If Atlanta is trading away Horford they will try to tank. Now with the weak East I don’t see them doing that this season as currently they are in the running for a top4 seed. Just imagine if LeBron or Bosh gets injured its not unreasonable to see them making a lot of noise in the playoffs.

But for the sake of argument sure lets say they decide to trade away Horford. They are going to want young talent and picks. Players like Meyers would be great, as they will help a team lose in the present to improve their draft pick but he gives them some long term potential. CJ should have good value. Crabbe, Freeland, Clavier could make salaries match while having value exceed their very cheap contracts. The Hawks are not going to want vets on 2 or 3 year contracts like Wes and Batum. I suppose they could flip those guys to a third team but Atlanta would have no interest in them on their roster.

Yes we do owe Charlotte our next pick, but I believe it is unprotected in 2016. So we could trade away our pick in 2018, 2019 or 2020. We could give them the option of swapping first round picks in those years as well as 2017. We could reduce or eliminate protections on those picks. If the Blazers want to acquire Horford to make a run at a title now then keeping Wes and Batum is critical. Giving them a first round pick plus a swap option along with two recent lottery picks is a great haul for the Hawks. Contenders don’t give up more than that when acquiring all-stars, that’s on the level of the Harden trade. It would make sense for us because we’d still keep our four core starters, have Lopez, Mo and Wright off the bench. I think we could make serious noise in the postseason, but it runs a high risk of the Blazers giving up major long term assets down the road.
 
ponderguy said:
The blazers have been projected to be somewhere in the 6-8 seeds in the West this year. We have beat Denver, San Antonio, 2x Sacramento, Detroit, Phoenix, Toronto, Brooklyn, Milwaukee and Boston. We SHOULD have beat all those teams, with the exception of San Antonio.
Click to expand...

There has never been a 6-8 seed who should win 10 of 12 games and sweep an eastern road trip. I hate that argument. Either we're a borderline playoff team or we aren't, you can't have it both ways.

ponderguy said:
I have given several reasons why I believe Melo would be a good addition to this roster. Saying all I want him for is my fantasy basketball team is creating a straw man argument, that seem to be the norm around here. (especially considering that is NOT how fantasy basketball works...) . That we are beating the teams we should beat is progress! It's a very positive sign that we're headed in the right direction. But so many are already counting on this continuing and us ending up as a top 4 seed. I am not sure that will happen and even if it does we are second round fodder, much like the Hawks of the last decade have been. To put us among the best teams in the league we need another superstar and Melo fits that bill. Yes his defense is subpar but his offensive game more than makes up for it. No one can stop him, including LeBron.
Click to expand...

Not sure it can be made any clearer to you but here goes. Carmelo doesn't want to be in Portland. Carmelo doesn't fit in Portland. Carmello would make the team worse. What the team needs is not a "superstar" (I'd argue Anthony isn't one anyways). You'd be trading guys who are a big part of what's working for the team and trading for a guy who's a spoiled, selfish, me-first black-hole of a distraction everywhere he's been. If I was looking for a guy who'd be the worst fit for this team, in the entire NBA, I might start with Carmelo Anthony. And that's before I even account for the fact he's almost 30 and earning well north of 20million a year.

Whew, I made it without any personal insults. That was not easy to do...
 
noknobs said:
There has never been a 6-8 seed who should win 10 of 12 games and sweep an eastern road trip. I hate that argument. Either we're a borderline playoff team or we aren't, you can't have it both ways.



Not sure it can be made any clearer to you but here goes. Carmelo doesn't want to be in Portland. Carmelo doesn't fit in Portland. Carmello would make the team worse. What the team needs is not a "superstar" (I'd argue Anthony isn't one anyways). You'd be trading guys who are a big part of what's working for the team and trading for a guy who's a spoiled, selfish, me-first black-hole of a distraction everywhere he's been. If I was looking for a guy who'd be the worst fit for this team, in the entire NBA, I might start with Carmelo Anthony. And that's before I even account for the fact he's almost 30 and earning well north of 20million a year.

Whew, I made it without any personal insults. That was not easy to do...
Click to expand...

Great post. It could not have been said better. Repped.
 
here's 3 more trades!

1. Nicolas Batum, Joel Freeland and CJ McCollum for Larry Sanders, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Brandon Knight
Gives us a very solid defensive frontcourt with Sanders and Lopez. Wright can do many of the things Batum does now offensively while still playing ok defense for his position. We get Giannis Antetokounmpo back to groom as the SFOTF while not losing much in the short term. Knight looks like a bust and is included to keep the trade even but could be swapped for whoever. Just filler.

2. LMA for Blake Griffin
I would only do this if LMA asked for a trade and was going to leave. A roster of Dame/Wes/Nic/Griffin/Lopez reminds me alot of the 96 Sonics team that made it to the finals with Payton/Hawkins/Scrempf/Kemp/Perkins.

3. LMA for Dwight Howard
Another trade I only do if LMA is leaving. Howard is on the decline but is still one of the best rebounders and defenders in the league. Pairing him and Robinson together should get us ALL the rebounds and make us very tough to score in the paint on. Houston gets a very nice roster full of complementary players. Beverly (Lin?)/Harden/Parsons/LMA/Asik would be very tough to beat.
 
Hahahaha! Keep 'em coming. This is hilarious; I'm sure the butt-hurt will be epic.
 
Those are much more believable as trades that would be suggested by a delusional Blazer Fan, as there's no chance that the other team would do any of those.

Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk
 
noknobs said:
There has never been a 6-8 seed who should win 10 of 12 games and sweep an eastern road trip. I hate that argument. Either we're a borderline playoff team or we aren't, you can't have it both ways.



Not sure it can be made any clearer to you but here goes. Carmelo doesn't want to be in Portland. Carmelo doesn't fit in Portland. Carmello would make the team worse. What the team needs is not a "superstar" (I'd argue Anthony isn't one anyways). You'd be trading guys who are a big part of what's working for the team and trading for a guy who's a spoiled, selfish, me-first black-hole of a distraction everywhere he's been. If I was looking for a guy who'd be the worst fit for this team, in the entire NBA, I might start with Carmelo Anthony. And that's before I even account for the fact he's almost 30 and earning well north of 20million a year.

Whew, I made it without any personal insults. That was not easy to do...
Click to expand...

The west is very tough. projecting anywhere from the 6-8 in the playoffs would make them a good-very good team. the 4 game road trip included the Raptors, Knicks, Boston and Milwaukee. Why shouldn't we have swept it? We should be expecting them to do that if they are going to be a playoff team! The Knicks were the best of the bunch and they are mired in injury problems. I would expect a team like Memphis, Dallas, Minnesota to do the same thing.

Carmelo wanted out of Denver because they were planning on rebuilding and he didn't want to sit through a rebuilding project. HE wanted to go to a contender and thought New York was a good place for him. His statement this March about it was:
"People didn't really know the business side of the situation we were in," Anthony said. "Everybody's contract was up. They had plans of going younger. People from the outside looking in didn't really get it."
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/3/13/4098522/carmelo-anthony-return-denver-knicks-nuggets

At the time Denver was built around Billups, Nene, Melo and JR Smith. Nene is always injured and Billups usefulness as a starter was done when he left Denver. If they hadn't traded Melo they wouldn't have had the influx of young talent they got in the NY trade or the pieces to make the LAwson trade. If Melo had stayed in Denver the league would look very different right now.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Those are much more believable as trades that would be suggested by a delusional Blazer Fan, as there's no chance that the other team would do any of those.

Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Milwaukee was the one I was really thinking about. Sanders has been in some trouble lately with that bar fight and they are heavy on bigs. They may be regretting singing him to that long term deal and a package of Batum/Freeland/McCollum would be a good return for him
 
ponderguy said:
here's 3 more trades!

1. Nicolas Batum, Joel Freeland and CJ McCollum for Larry Sanders, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Brandon Knight
Gives us a very solid defensive frontcourt with Sanders and Lopez. Wright can do many of the things Batum does now offensively while still playing ok defense for his position. We get Giannis Antetokounmpo back to groom as the SFOTF while not losing much in the short term. Knight looks like a bust and is included to keep the trade even but could be swapped for whoever. Just filler.

2. LMA for Blake Griffin
I would only do this if LMA asked for a trade and was going to leave. A roster of Dame/Wes/Nic/Griffin/Lopez reminds me alot of the 96 Sonics team that made it to the finals with Payton/Hawkins/Scrempf/Kemp/Perkins.

3. LMA for Dwight Howard
Another trade I only do if LMA is leaving. Howard is on the decline but is still one of the best rebounders and defenders in the league. Pairing him and Robinson together should get us ALL the rebounds and make us very tough to score in the paint on. Houston gets a very nice roster full of complementary players. Beverly (Lin?)/Harden/Parsons/LMA/Asik would be very tough to beat.
Click to expand...

How about your TWolves trade Love, Rubio and Kevin Martin for Carmello Anthony and J.R. Smith. This would get you a superstar in Anthony and really allow guys like Pek and Barea to blossom and spread their wings. Plus you're getting a potential 6th man of the year in J.R. Smith. Once Budinger comes back you're looking at WCF at a minimum.
 
noknobs said:
How about your TWolves trade Love, Rubio and Kevin Martin for Carmello Anthony and J.R. Smith. This would get you a superstar in Anthony and really allow guys like Pek and Barea to blossom and spread their wings. Plus you're getting a potential 6th man of the year in J.R. Smith. Once Budinger comes back you're looking at WCF at a minimum.
Click to expand...

why don't your Lakers trade Kobe for Melo straight up
 
Draco said:
If Atlanta is trading away Horford they will try to tank. Now with the weak East I don’t see them doing that this season as currently they are in the running for a top4 seed. Just imagine if LeBron or Bosh gets injured its not unreasonable to see them making a lot of noise in the playoffs.

But for the sake of argument sure lets say they decide to trade away Horford. They are going to want young talent and picks. Players like Meyers would be great, as they will help a team lose in the present to improve their draft pick but he gives them some long term potential. CJ should have good value. Crabbe, Freeland, Clavier could make salaries match while having value exceed their very cheap contracts. The Hawks are not going to want vets on 2 or 3 year contracts like Wes and Batum. I suppose they could flip those guys to a third team but Atlanta would have no interest in them on their roster.

Yes we do owe Charlotte our next pick, but I believe it is unprotected in 2016. So we could trade away our pick in 2018, 2019 or 2020. We could give them the option of swapping first round picks in those years as well as 2017. We could reduce or eliminate protections on those picks. If the Blazers want to acquire Horford to make a run at a title now then keeping Wes and Batum is critical. Giving them a first round pick plus a swap option along with two recent lottery picks is a great haul for the Hawks. Contenders don’t give up more than that when acquiring all-stars, that’s on the level of the Harden trade. It would make sense for us because we’d still keep our four core starters, have Lopez, Mo and Wright off the bench. I think we could make serious noise in the postseason, but it runs a high risk of the Blazers giving up major long term assets down the road.
Click to expand...

If olshey could manage to bring in Horford without having to deal Wes or Batum, he definitely is a unanimous choice for GM of the year. A starting 5 of Lillard, Matthews, Batum, Aldridge and Horford would be the strongest starting 5 in the league. Hands down!

Then you add bench pieces of Robin Lopez, T rob, Mo Williams, Freeland, and Wright; and that's even more formidable!
 
noknobs said:
There has never been a 6-8 seed who should win 10 of 12 games and sweep an eastern road trip. I hate that argument. Either we're a borderline playoff team or we aren't, you can't have it both ways.



Not sure it can be made any clearer to you but here goes. Carmelo doesn't want to be in Portland. Carmelo doesn't fit in Portland. Carmello would make the team worse. What the team needs is not a "superstar" (I'd argue Anthony isn't one anyways). You'd be trading guys who are a big part of what's working for the team and trading for a guy who's a spoiled, selfish, me-first black-hole of a distraction everywhere he's been. If I was looking for a guy who'd be the worst fit for this team, in the entire NBA, I might start with Carmelo Anthony. And that's before I even account for the fact he's almost 30 and earning well north of 20million a year.

Whew, I made it without any personal insults. That was not easy to do...
Click to expand...

Rep worthy! I would rep if I wasn't on my phone
 
ponderguy said:
The west is very tough. projecting anywhere from the 6-8 in the playoffs would make them a good-very good team. the 4 game road trip included the Raptors, Knicks, Boston and Milwaukee. Why shouldn't we have swept it? We should be expecting them to do that if they are going to be a playoff team! The Knicks were the best of the bunch and they are mired in injury problems. I would expect a team like Memphis, Dallas, Minnesota to do the same thing.

Carmelo wanted out of Denver because they were planning on rebuilding and he didn't want to sit through a rebuilding project. HE wanted to go to a contender and thought New York was a good place for him. His statement this March about it was:
"People didn't really know the business side of the situation we were in," Anthony said. "Everybody's contract was up. They had plans of going younger. People from the outside looking in didn't really get it."
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/3/13/4098522/carmelo-anthony-return-denver-knicks-nuggets

At the time Denver was built around Billups, Nene, Melo and JR Smith. Nene is always injured and Billups usefulness as a starter was done when he left Denver. If they hadn't traded Melo they wouldn't have had the influx of young talent they got in the NY trade or the pieces to make the LAwson trade. If Melo had stayed in Denver the league would look very different right now.
Click to expand...

Ask why OKC or Miami why they didn't sweep their easy road opponents.
 
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