Trades that "move the needle"

[santeesioux]

I like how the mods just let you guys beat up on the Timberpup fans until they've had enough and post their usual pics, resulting in a ban.

 

[WarriorFan]

I think both Portland and my Warriors should be going after the same guy to help with interior defense and that's Ekpe Udoh. He would be cheap to aquire and has a decent enough post game for a backup 4/5 but most importantly he seems to know his role and won't mess up chemistry. What do you guys think of him?

As far as the trade in the OP, there is no way you get Melo for Batum. This thread reminds me of when the warriors were going after Howard and I swore that I didn't want him, he would ruin chemistry, and I would rather have Bogut. In my heart though, I know that Howard is the much better player. Same thing here. You all may hate Melo, and I do too, but he is miles ahead of Batum and it would certainly take LMA + to get him.

 

[noknobs]

why don't your Lakers trade Kobe for Melo straight up

Low blow, man. You can insult my momma, but don't ever call me a Laker fan.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think both Portland and my Warriors should be going after the same guy to help with interior defense and that's Ekpe Udoh. He would be cheap to aquire and has a decent enough post game for a backup 4/5 but most importantly he seems to know his role and won't mess up chemistry. What do you guys think of him?

As far as the trade in the OP, there is no way you get Melo for Batum. This thread reminds me of when the warriors were going after Howard and I swore that I didn't want him, he would ruin chemistry, and I would rather have Bogut. In my heart though, I know that Howard is the much better player. Same thing here. You all may hate Melo, and I do too, but he is miles ahead of Batum and it would certainly take LMA + to get him.

The OP is from a Minnesota fan masquerading as a Blazers fan and in a matter of hours or maybe even days he's going to post a bunch of pics of schlongs and then get banned - and the sun will rise in the east and set in the west.

 

[magnifier661]

I think both Portland and my Warriors should be going after the same guy to help with interior defense and that's Ekpe Udoh. He would be cheap to aquire and has a decent enough post game for a backup 4/5 but most importantly he seems to know his role and won't mess up chemistry. What do you guys think of him?

As far as the trade in the OP, there is no way you get Melo for Batum. This thread reminds me of when the warriors were going after Howard and I swore that I didn't want him, he would ruin chemistry, and I would rather have Bogut. In my heart though, I know that Howard is the much better player. Same thing here. You all may hate Melo, and I do too, but he is miles ahead of Batum and it would certainly take LMA + to get him.

It's weird cause warriors and Blazers have the same type of philosophy defensively. I think right now, the Warriors are better paint scorers, but they distribute the ball much like the blazers. I'm up for tomorrow's game! Should be a fun one!

As for your trade proposal, who are you thinking to use for the exchange?

 

[magnifier661]

The OP is from a Minnesota fan masquerading as a Blazers fan and in a matter of hours or maybe even days he's going to post a bunch of pics of schlongs and then get banned - and the sun will rise in the east and set in the west.

Minny hatred runs deep. I mean they can't even finish off sub .500 teams on the road. They are just terrible!

 

[BlazerWookee]

It's not his fault they've only won two games. He has Raymond Felton running the point, A'Mare Stoudemire getting minutes and no Tyson Chandler. The Knicks are in a bad situation with no picks and no up and coming players outside of Shumpert. You need players that can create for themselves and Melo can do that. Our defense is already terrible, adding Melo won't make it any worse but he can make our offense even better. Think about what he's being asked to do in New York. He has to carry that team because there is no one else on that roster even near the level of Dame or LMA. A'Mare was supposed to be his #2 but he's hasn't been good since 2010 now. I would love Shumpert back in the deal because he would legitimately help our perimeter defense. He may not be the offensive weapon Wes is but he is a better defender and more athletic. He also has some PG skills and would fit nicely next to Dame or McCollum. He wouldn't make up for the loss of Batum & Wes completely but he would be able to match up on many wings and point guards and lock them down. Stotts could do so much more offensively with a core of LMA/Melo/Lillard than he can with LMA/Dame/Nic/Wes. Nic & Wes are both limited offensive players.

36 posts, and on ignore. Congratulations, troll.

 

[WarriorFan]

As for your trade proposal, who are you thinking to use for the exchange?

I'm hoping he could be had for a couple 2nd round picks because that's about all gs could give up but if I'm Portland, I'd really consider McCollum. Maybe he turns out to be good but its not a sure thing. Even in the best case scenario, I don't think he can play with lillard so he would be a 6th man and, in that role, I think he's very replaceable.

I'll be at the game tomorrow. Should be fun with both teams on the 2nd night of a b2b.

 

[Draco]

I think both Portland and my Warriors should be going after the same guy to help with interior defense and that's Ekpe Udoh. He would be cheap to aquire and has a decent enough post game for a backup 4/5 but most importantly he seems to know his role and won't mess up chemistry. What do you guys think of him?

I’m amazed Udoh played 19 minutes against us and recorded 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals, and 0 blocks. He did contribute a few turnovers and a missed shot though.

No way in hell we consider giving up CJ for him I'm not sure if we even give up Joel Freeland for him.

 

[Draco]

There is a Knicks player I’d be interested in trading for, Tyson Chandler. If NY is well under .500 I’d at least make the phone call. CJ, Meyers, TRob, a couple of future draft picks. If they are going to lose Melo in free agency or line up another trade to get rid of Melo and rebuild perhaps they consider it. It seems like a deal that is more likely in the offseason if they can’t resign Melo.

One other name, Anderson Varejao. He is on a reasonable $9million contract that expires after next season same as most of our current deals. The Cavs could be a mess and looking to cut his salary as well as tank if the next few months don’t go well. I wouldn’t trade CJ for him but if it was Meyers, Freeland, Claver and Crabbe I’d make the deal. It isn’t a “move the needle” trade but it would give us one of the better backup centers in the league who could do the dirty work. His hair would match Lopez too!

 

[Draco]

Would we have any interest in trading CJ for Dion Waiters? He does not play well with Kyrie at all as both guys seem more comfortable with the ball. Jack also likes to have the ball, that backcourt is not working well together in Cleveland. CJ could be an off the ball shooter for them. Dion could take over for Mo’s role next year and move Lillard off the ball at times when they are on the court together.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Out of curiosity, Draco, what do you think about CJ (whether pre-draft, pre-injury, etc.)? Did his injury drop him, in your opinion, into a "scrap" guy like Leonard and Crabbe?

I mean, I'm as bummed as anyone that the kid broke his foot again, but there's no way (had they been in the same draft) that I would've taken Waiters over CJ, and nothing I've seen from either so far (which includes college and SL highlights from CJ) makes me question that opinion. Not "fit", "injury", "stats", "highlights", "commentary", etc. I don't see anything in Dion's profile that makes me think he's any more equipped to handle the Mo Role than CJ is--he seems to be (with a 1.5-1 A/TO ratio and 17% AST%) a straight SG that doesn't shoot that well, but will pass to an open guy occasionally (so it's not all a minus). I just don't see the love, or the fit for us.

For your previous posts, I think we're 2 years too late for Chandler to move the needle, and I don't think our "scraps" (even including CJ as a scrap, which I don't) get us enough to bring back Chandler's contract. I'd also probably take Varejao straight-up over Chandler right now, and for the next 2 years.

 

[Strenuus]

There is a Knicks player I’d be interested in trading for, Tyson Chandler. If NY is well under .500 I’d at least make the phone call. CJ, Meyers, TRob, a couple of future draft picks. If they are going to lose Melo in free agency or line up another trade to get rid of Melo and rebuild perhaps they consider it. It seems like a deal that is more likely in the offseason if they can’t resign Melo.

One other name, Anderson Varejao. He is on a reasonable $9million contract that expires after next season same as most of our current deals. The Cavs could be a mess and looking to cut his salary as well as tank if the next few months don’t go well. I wouldn’t trade CJ for him but if it was Meyers, Freeland, Claver and Crabbe I’d make the deal. It isn’t a “move the needle” trade but it would give us one of the better backup centers in the league who could do the dirty work. His hair would match Lopez too!

Oh lord! That'd be a lot of hair. Do it!

 

[Draco]

Out of curiosity, Draco, what do you think about CJ (whether pre-draft, pre-injury, etc.)? Did his injury drop him, in your opinion, into a "scrap" guy like Leonard and Crabbe?

I mean, I'm as bummed as anyone that the kid broke his foot again, but there's no way (had they been in the same draft) that I would've taken Waiters over CJ, and nothing I've seen from either so far (which includes college and SL highlights from CJ) makes me question that opinion. Not "fit", "injury", "stats", "highlights", "commentary", etc. I don't see anything in Dion's profile that makes me think he's any more equipped to handle the Mo Role than CJ is--he seems to be (with a 1.5-1 A/TO ratio and 17% AST%) a straight SG that doesn't shoot that well, but will pass to an open guy occasionally (so it's not all a minus). I just don't see the love, or the fit for us.

For your previous posts, I think we're 2 years too late for Chandler to move the needle, and I don't think our "scraps" (even including CJ as a scrap, which I don't) get us enough to bring back Chandler's contract. I'd also probably take Varejao straight-up over Chandler right now, and for the next 2 years.

I think CJ has a lot of value still, he was an elite scorer in college. He showed that scoring ability in summer league more than Ben McLemore or Otto Potter. His injury isn’t a joint or a chronic injury, it can be a pain to recover from and be prone to early setbacks but once its healed its something guys always make a complete recovery from. We have a lot of hope for CJ but another poster said it best, prospects such as him are like an unused scratch off ticket, its worthless if you scratch it off. If we wait to deal CJ he will either play great in which case we want to keep him or else he bombs in which case he losses all the value he currently has.

I don’t know too much about Dion he was a very high pick so I thought maybe we should look into it. I meant to pose that more as a question to people who are familiar with his game, than something I’d do. I’ve heard Cleveland is disappointed with his ability to play with Kyrie but perhaps in a different situation he would perform much better.

With Chandler we would more than match his salary if we bundled TRob, Freeland, Meyers, CJ, Claver and Crabbe. We could probably get within the matching limit without all those players. Brian you probably know more about that limit, what is it 150%? Meyers is a guy I and others have been very harsh on but when you’re talking about him being the 3rd or 4th asset coming back in a trade I think NBA teams will look at his upside. I don’t think NY is interested in the above type of trade yet, especially since they don’t have their own draft pick this year, but it’s the type of offer I’d be inquiring about around the league. It’s the type of offer a team who has a big injury or an implosion as we had when Nate got fired could push them to close a deal. We are best off waiting until the offseason to make roster moves but if another team is eager to do something immediately as the Pelicans were with Robin or the Rockets with TRob we should jump at the opportunity.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Here's where caramelo puts my needle:

 

[Strenuus]

Here's where caramelo puts my needle:

What about your other needle?

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

What about your other needle?

Finally, someone taking advantage of my straight lines.

 

[ponderguy]

36 posts, and on ignore. Congratulations, troll.

6420 comments on blazersedge. If I'm a troll I'm awfully dedicated to one team!

 

[ponderguy]

relevant article today from SI on Melo
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20131122/carmelo-anthony-knicks/?xid=nl_siextra

 

[magnifier661]

Melo is a complete fucking tool. He deserves to be in New York. Perfect place for a tool

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

I have given several reasons why I believe Melo would be a good addition to this roster. Saying all I want him for is my fantasy basketball team is creating a straw man argument, that seem to be the norm around here. (especially considering that is NOT how fantasy basketball works...)

Your "reasons": "I love Melo... I don't care what the fans want the fact is Melo is better than all three of those players and in my head I'm the GM so I'm doing what is best for the team. . Melo isn't a consistent defender but he when he needs to he can lock his man down and is the most versatile scorer in the league. He can score in any way from any spot on the court."

I don't love Melo, but that's hardly relevant. Melo being better than any one player in your mind, does not equate to him improving a team if you have to give up 3 guys, that combined, make Portland better. Why does Portland need more scoring with an offense that is already one of the best in the entire NBA? Even you agree, Melo doesn't defend. Portland's weakness is defense, and Melo does not address that in any way, shape, or form.

For you to take this, "People don't think past their fantasy basketball rosters, and may God have mercy on your soul", literally, is unfortunate. This isn't a straw man, it is sarcasm (unless you feel your opinion of Melo is related to you salvation). But there is truth to that statement. People advocating for Melo to be a Blazer either won't address, or are unable to address significant barriers to Melo being traded to the Blazers and how the cost to the Blazers for obtaining him make Portland better. Look at the Knicks record. How the heck does that make Portland better to bring anyone from that team to Portland?

You said you gave several reasons why you believe Melo would be a good addition to the roster. I went back, painful as it was, and looked for your reasons, and the more I read, the less hyperbolic I feel my statement was. You want to play GM, you provide poor reasoning for how this helps the Blazers as a team, and you assert your opinion as fact. That is definitely fantasy. So, my apologies for giving you too much credit by adding "basketball" to the fantasy. Unnecessarily specific be your grievance (oh, and if you say it like a pirate of the Caribbean, it's kinda fun).

The blazers have been projected to be somewhere in the 6-8 seeds in the West this year. We have beat Denver, San Antonio, 2x Sacramento, Detroit, Phoenix, Toronto, Brooklyn, Milwaukee and Boston. We SHOULD have beat all those teams, with the exception of San Antonio. That we are beating the teams we should beat is progress! It's a very positive sign that we're headed in the right direction. But so many are already counting on this continuing and us ending up as a top 4 seed. I am not sure that will happen and even if it does we are second round fodder, much like the Hawks of the last decade have been.

Portland is headed in the right direction (in your opinion), but they should change the entire line-up with the exception of Lillard and Lopez. This makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

To put us among the best teams in the league we need another superstar and Melo fits that bill. Yes his defense is subpar but his offensive game more than makes up for it. No one can stop him, including LeBron.

According to Melo's coach, Anthony is not a superstar, because he doesn't get "superstar calls." Who cares who can't stop him if he can't stop anyone he's defending either? That starting line up you suggested, TRob starting PF? That makes Portland better? Seriously, go back to the trade machine and enjoy yourself... quietly. Maybe take a coloring book and a box of crayons with you.

 

[ponderguy]

Your "reasons": "I love Melo... I don't care what the fans want the fact is Melo is better than all three of those players and in my head I'm the GM so I'm doing what is best for the team. . Melo isn't a consistent defender but he when he needs to he can lock his man down and is the most versatile scorer in the league. He can score in any way from any spot on the court."

I don't love Melo, but that's hardly relevant. Melo being better than any one player in your mind, does not equate to him improving a team if you have to give up 3 guys, that combined, make Portland better. Why does Portland need more scoring with an offense that is already one of the best in the entire NBA? Even you agree, Melo doesn't defend. Portland's weakness is defense, and Melo does not address that in any way, shape, or form.

For you to take this, "People don't think past their fantasy basketball rosters, and may God have mercy on your soul", literally, is unfortunate. This isn't a straw man, it is sarcasm (unless you feel your opinion of Melo is related to you salvation). But there is truth to that statement. People advocating for Melo to be a Blazer either won't address, or are unable to address significant barriers to Melo being traded to the Blazers and how the cost to the Blazers for obtaining him make Portland better. Look at the Knicks record. How the heck does that make Portland better to bring anyone from that team to Portland?

You said you gave several reasons why you believe Melo would be a good addition to the roster. I went back, painful as it was, and looked for your reasons, and the more I read, the less hyperbolic I feel my statement was. You want to play GM, you provide poor reasoning for how this helps the Blazers as a team, and you assert your opinion as fact. That is definitely fantasy. So, my apologies for giving you too much credit by adding "basketball" to the fantasy. Unnecessarily specific be your grievance (oh, and if you say it like a pirate of the Caribbean, it's kinda fun).



Portland is headed in the right direction (in your opinion), but they should change the entire line-up with the exception of Lillard and Lopez. This makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.



According to Melo's coach, Anthony is not a superstar, because he doesn't get "superstar calls." Who cares who can't stop him if he can't stop anyone he's defending either? That starting line up you suggested, TRob starting PF? That makes Portland better? Seriously, go back to the trade machine and enjoy yourself... quietly. Maybe take a coloring book and a box of crayons with you.

I'm sure you were the same person saying KG would never get a ring, or LeBron in Cleveland or Pierce in Boston. If you can't envision how players might fit together in different circumstances than their current one than what are you even doing in a trade thread except to troll? The team IS good right now but I want them to be the best. Melo is one of several players who could help bring the team to that level. This current roster is the Atlanta Hawks of the aughts

 

[magnifier661]

I'm sure you were the same person saying KG would never get a ring, or LeBron in Cleveland or Pierce in Boston. If you can't envision how players might fit together in different circumstances than their current one than what are you even doing in a trade thread except to troll? The team IS good right now but I want them to be the best. Melo is one of several players who could help bring the team to that level. This current roster is the Atlanta Hawks of the aughts

Did you just compare KG and LBJ to melo?! Totally different league. They both make their teams better and are unselfish. Something Melo is not.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

I'm sure you were the same person saying KG would never get a ring, or LeBron in Cleveland or Pierce in Boston. If you can't envision how players might fit together in different circumstances than their current one than what are you even doing in a trade thread except to troll? The team IS good right now but I want them to be the best. Melo is one of several players who could help bring the team to that level. This current roster is the Atlanta Hawks of the aughts

I'm sure I don't care about other teams, or discuss their chances of getting rings. I'm sure I have only been posting here a week or so. I'm sure I made it VERY clear that I CAN see how Melo would fit AND that it would be a HORRIBLE fit. Melo is NOT one of several players who could help bring the team to "that level." And, your analogy to Atlanta is a straw man. I just thought I'd point out an example since you clearly don't understand what a straw man argument is.

 

[ponderguy]

I'm sure I don't care about other teams, or discuss their chances of getting rings. I'm sure I have only been posting here a week or so. I'm sure I made it VERY clear that I CAN see how Melo would fit AND that it would be a HORRIBLE fit. Melo is NOT one of several players who could help bring the team to "that level." And, your analogy to Atlanta is a straw man. I just though I'd point out an example since you clearly don't understand what a straw man argument is.

Melo has made every team he's been on better. The Nuggets had the same record as the Cavs the year before he and LBJ were drafted and he made the playoffs in a tougher western conference. The Knicks have had more success with him than they did with Danillo Gallinarri and Wilson Chandler.

 

[magnifier661]

Melo has made every team he's been on better. The Nuggets had the same record as the Cavs the year before he and LBJ were drafted and he made the playoffs in a tougher western conference. The Knicks have had more success with him than they did with Danillo Gallinarri and Wilson Chandler.

Or did he? Denver were still good when he left and New York sucked

And before the trade, New York was riding a damn good winning streak

 

[noknobs]

Portland is headed in the right direction (in your opinion), but they should change the entire line-up with the exception of Lillard and Lopez. This makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

Clearly you just lack vision.

Look, the submarine is good, but I want it to be the best. For that to happen, we need a screen mesh to cover the hatch and keep us safe from flying insects while we're scooting along the bottom of the mariana trench. To pay for this, we'll of course have to get rid of the nuclear warheads and propulsion system, as well as learn how to breath underwater, but lets focus on the big picture. No fucking flies.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Melo has made every team he's been on better. The Nuggets had the same record as the Cavs the year before he and LBJ were drafted and he made the playoffs in a tougher western conference. The Knicks have had more success with him than they did with Danillo Gallinarri and Wilson Chandler.

Which proves what?

That he can score? The Blazers don't need scoring from the kind he provides.

That Melo is better than Gallinarri and Chandler? I would argue that Batum, Matthews, and LA are all individually better than those 2 guys.

That Melo leads teams to titles? What success has NY had with Melo in a weak eastern conference with 3 teams with winning records? Oh, injuries? A stronger argument could be made for the Blazers in that respect over the past few seasons.

Your counter-arguments are not compelling. And again, Melo's perceived success in Denver and NY is a straw man, as you resist to support how that makes the Blazers better. You Melo/Bargnani/Shumpfort is not a move that helps Portland. It quite literally guts the Blazers for a volume shooter. It doesn't solve any of the Blazers' current weaknesses, nor can you explain how that won't drop a giant poo on the Blazers ball movement, unselfish play, and multi-option attack plan.

 

[ponderguy]

Or did he? Denver were still good when he left and New York sucked

And before the trade, New York was riding a damn good winning streak

Denver was good because they had a HOF coach with one of the greatest minds in the history of the game who could make all the pieces fit together. They were still out in the first round. NY has made the second round for the first time in 13 years with Melo. A breakdown of that trade from the article I cited earlier, just to refresh everyones memories here:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.
• A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20131122/carmelo-anthony-knicks/#ixzz2lQ43iFlw

Getting Melo and Chandler in that deal is a pretty clear win for NY.

 

[magnifier661]

Then you using melo for nugget success is moot, if you are going to downplay their success when melo was gone. Sorry but melo doesn't make a team better. Maybe on nba jams, where you play 2-2