Zombie Trading CJ (3 Viewers)

[Strenuus]

So, when are we trading CJ? Hopefully soon!

 

[Natebishop3]

If Crabbes really that valuable then I wonder what we can get for him.



Dames a big PG. And CJs bigger than him..

But CJ isn't really a point guard. He's a classic combo guard.

 

[BonesJones]

I just think theres only 3 or 4 SGs out there that are better options next to Dame. Klay, Butler, and George. So unless it's one of those 3 than we dont get rid of him.

 

[B-Roy]

People do stupid things when they have money to burn. The lack of shooting guards in the league right now and the fact that he's young and can shoot the ball could bring a nice payday for him. Maybe not max, but I think possibly more than 10 million per year.

Like I said, $10 million is not out of the realm of possibility. That's role player money in the new cap. Max is insane.

 

[Natebishop3]

I just think theres only 3 or 4 SGs out there that are better options next to Dame. Klay, Butler, and George. So unless it's one of those 3 than we dont get rid of him.

So what do you do with Crabbe?

 

[Natebishop3]

Like I said, $10 million is not out of the realm of possibility. That's role player money in the new cap. Max is insane.

I'm not saying he's worth max. I'm saying that it's not impossible for some stupid GM to toss out a stupid contract, similar to Wes with Dallas and Sac. You mentioned that was after Wes had played for six years, but he was also coming off a major injury. There is going to be so much money available this summer, and there are a lot of restricted free agents. Batum and Parsons are going to get paid way more than they are worth.

 

[B-Roy]

But CJ isn't really a point guard. He's a classic combo guard.

Not saying you are wrong, but CJ's AST% has doubled this year to 21.6%. But this is with him playing mostly SG. As the primary PG with Dame out (admittedly a small 4 game sample size), he's averaged 7 assists. Dame's career assist% is 28.6%. Dame is probably more of a point, and CJ is probably more of a shooting, but the truth is they are probably closer to each other than it seems.

 

[Natebishop3]

Not saying you are wrong, but CJ's AST% has doubled this year to 21.6%. But this is with him playing mostly SG. As the primary PG with Dame out (admittedly a small 4 game sample size), he's averaged 7 assists. Dame's career assist% is 28.6%. Dame is probably more of a point, and CJ is probably more of a shooting, but the truth is they are probably closer to each other than it seems.

Dame was really good at running the pick and roll/pick and pop with LA, but Leonard/Aminu/Vonleh are obviously nowhere near Aldridge in terms of being able to run that play. I think that's hurt his game a bit.

 

[B-Roy]

I'm not saying he's worth max. I'm saying that it's not impossible for some stupid GM to toss out a stupid contract, similar to Wes with Dallas and Sac. You mentioned that was after Wes had played for six years, but he was also coming off a major injury. There is going to be so much money available this summer, and there are a lot of restricted free agents. Batum and Parsons are going to get paid way more than they are worth.

Crabbe IF he keeps this up, will have one season of averaging 10/2/1 on 46/35/83 with a 12 PER. Let's say his stats modestly improve to 11/3/2 on 48/37/85. How is that AT ALL comparable to:

Matthews - 6 seasons of 15/3/3 on 44/40/83
Batum - 7 seasons of 13/6/3 on 45/36/84
Parsons - 3 seasons of 14/5/3 on 47/37/70

I think you are severely overrating both Crabbe and the money. Teams don't HAVE to spend their money on anyone. Clearly the Blazers didn't do it last year, and that was arguably an even worse FA class.

 

[B-Roy]

Dame was really good at running the pick and roll/pick and pop with LA, but Leonard/Aminu/Vonleh are obviously nowhere near Aldridge in terms of being able to run that play. I think that's hurt his game a bit.

His ast% this year is 33.8% - a career high. Obviously his usage is up too though, he has the ball in his hands more.

But largely, I think he's about the same as a passer as he's always been.

 

[Natebishop3]

His ast% this year is 33.8% - a career high. Obviously his usage is up too though, he has the ball in his hands more.

But largely, I think he's about the same as a passer as he's always been.

That probably has a lot to do with Batum no longer running the point at times. I'm curious what his ast% was when Batum was out last year.

 

[B-Roy]

Nope,

Batum with Dame:

3 years:

20.3%, 20.9%, 20.6%.

So, about the same role CJ is playing now.

 

[Natebishop3]

Crabbe IF he keeps this up, will have one season of averaging 10/2/1 on 46/35/83 with a 12 PER. Let's say his stats modestly improve to 11/3/2 on 48/37/85. How is that AT ALL comparable to:

Matthews - 6 seasons of 15/3/3 on 44/40/83
Batum - 7 seasons of 13/6/3 on 45/36/84
Parsons - 3 seasons of 14/5/3 on 47/37/70

I think you are severely overrating both Crabbe and the money. Teams don't HAVE to spend their money on anyone. Clearly the Blazers didn't do it last year, and that was arguably an even worse FA class.

You're forgetting a major factor when looking at those three players - minutes played.

Batum has averaged 31 mpg over his career. Parsons' career average is 33 mpg, and he averaged 34 mpg over his three years in Houston (prior to his big contract with Dallas.) Wes is a career 32 mpg player.

Crabbe is a career 16 mpg player. This season is by far his biggest opportunity at 25 minutes per game, but if he was getting closer to 36 mpg, his numbers would extrapolate to a much closer average with those three players.

 

[Natebishop3]

Nope,

Batum with Dame:

3 years:

20.3%, 20.9%, 20.6%.

So, about the same role CJ is playing now.

I'd still like to see what Dame's ast% was when Batum was out last year.

 

[B-Roy]

You're forgetting a major factor when looking at those three players - minutes played.

Batum has averaged 31 mpg over his career. Parsons' career average is 33 mpg, and he averaged 34 mpg over his three years in Houston (prior to his big contract with Dallas.) Wes is a career 32 mpg player.

Crabbe is a career 16 mpg player. This season is by far his biggest opportunity at 25 minutes per game, but if he was getting closer to 36 mpg, his numbers would extrapolate to a much closer average with those three players.

I am not forgetting anything. Players get max contracts based on production, not extrapolated production. If they did, half the players in the league would be max players. $10 million is already overpaying based on his current production.

Think more of Jae Crowder, who got 8 million a year for putting up 10/5.

 

[Natebishop3]

I am not forgetting anything. Players get max contracts based on production, not extrapolated production. If they did, half the players in the league would be max players. $10 million is already overpaying based on his current production.

Think more of Jae Crowder, who got 8 million a year for putting up 10/5.

The thing is, I never said specifically that Crabbe would get a max this summer. I said I could see all three of our guards getting maxed, and then again said that he could someday be a max player. But I think someone is going to throw a bigger contract than we're comfortable with this summer. I guess we can quibble over what would be the numbers on that offer, but I don't think it would be max money this year.

 

[Schilly]

Isn't CJ really the perfect compliment to Dame in the backcourt?

 

[Trackjack]

One thing is CJ and Crabbe just scratching the surface. Is either of them max players no Crabbe if continue to play like he is I figure 10 million an CJ 13-15 when his contract comes up. There not one player on this team that I would considering trading. Dame be much harder to trade due to next year he is a max player. CJ would be easier to trade because he is on rookie contract. But right now it would have to hell of a deal to trade either one.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Isn't CJ really the perfect compliment to Dame in the backcourt?

Alltime? With this team? In the league today? What are your parameters?

 

[Natebishop3]

One thing is CJ and Crabbe just scratching the surface. Is either of them max players no Crabbe if continue to play like he is I figure 10 million an CJ 13-15 when his contract comes up. There not one player on this team that I would considering trading. Dame be much harder to trade due to next year he is a max player. CJ would be easier to trade because he is on rookie contract. But right now it would have to hell of a deal to trade either one.

CJ will be an RFA after next season. Kinda scary. I guess we'll see how Beal does this summer. He and CJ are similar players.

 

[Schilly]

Right now today and for the foreseeable future.

 

[blue9]

I wonder if CJ for Butler might be good for both teams. Sounds like CHI isn't too pleased with the direction Butler is headed, specifically his "leadership". I think CJ is hands-down a better, more capable leader than Butler. I think Butler is massively overrated, but he could solve some of the issues that CJ poses for us - namely defense. Also, he gets to the line a lot (or at least he use to...haven't paid attention recently). I'm not sure I'd do it (I don't like Butler), but it might be one of those times it works for both teams.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I wonder if CJ for Butler might be good for both teams. Sounds like CHI isn't too pleased with the direction Butler is headed, specifically his "leadership". I think CJ is hands-down a better, more capable leader than Butler. I think Butler is massively overrated, but he could solve some of the issues that CJ poses for us - namely defense. Also, he gets to the line a lot (or at least he use to...haven't paid attention recently). I'm not sure I'd do it (I don't like Butler), but it might be one of those times it works for both teams.

Butler is one of the few deals I would do for CJ actually. I don't think CHI would do it but their management is one of the worst in the NBA so perhaps.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Isn't CJ really the perfect compliment to Dame in the backcourt?

I would not say perfect, I would say pretty damn close.

For every player we try to come up with that would be a better compliment to Dame, that player will have a few areas that he is better than CJ, and also a few areas that CJ out performs him. It will be tough to find a better compliment. (maybe as good but not better) Then you have to add in the great chemistry the two have. (For Now at least until the media creates a rift between the two)

If we do come up with a better compliment to Dame, I doubt they will be available. It would have to be through FA or the draft. I doubt a trade is going to pull this off. We would have to give up too much to make it happen, and it will be really risky.

 

[handiman]

Regarding defensive players vs defensive scheme:

I understand that, but I am of the opinion that you should change the scheme before changing the (good) player.

I would agree, except that neither CJ or Dame is good at keeping their man in front of them, regardless of screens. They're always going to put the second line of defense in a help position.

 

[STOMP]

Dames a big PG. And CJs bigger than him..

fantasy is fun, I get it, but reality is an interesting place too. Give it a try sometime

STOMP

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

To go forward with CJ as the SG for the next decade or so you need:

*A lockdown defender at SF (RHJ could've been this)
*A legit shotblocker

In the playoffs CJ will be posted on the reg. We need a weakside shotblocker to soften this.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Had it not been for a prime Shaq with a prime Kobe this 6'1" backcourt would've been multi-champions.

 

[julius]

Had it not been for a prime Shaq with a prime Kobe this 6'1" backcourt would've been multi-champions.

How do you figure? They went to the finals once.

 

[THE HCP]

Had it not been for a prime Shaq with a prime Kobe this 6'1" backcourt would've been multi-champions.

Nah..... Snow was a fantastic on the ball hawking defender. CJ and Dame can't make that claim. The only similarity might be size. Although A.I. was only 6' at best.Their games did complement each other perfectly.