Zombie Trading CJ (2 Viewers)

[maxiep]

They're almost the same player. If he continues to increase his value, I say trade McCollum for a more complimentary piece.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I think we should trade CJ for another player who can't shoot, because we have too many shooters. Oh, wait?!?!

 

[Blazinaway]

would you guys trade McCollum and perhaps a bit more (small piece) for Okafor?

 

[julius]

I think we should trade CJ for another player who can't shoot, because we have too many shooters. Oh, wait?!?!

They should trade CJ for a mythical PF who is a stud and will lead the team to the promised land!

All we need is a time machine, and a way to convinced the Spurs that CJ is worth Tim Duncan in 1997...

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

I think we should trade CJ if and when the team is a championship/deep playoff contender and it is obvious that the back court is not working, and not a second sooner. Our lotto numbers came up on this guy, be happy we have a stud like CJ in the making.

 

[42N8Bounce]

would you guys trade McCollum and perhaps a bit more (small piece) for Okafor?

Yes. I'd hate to see CJ go, but that would be a trade I think the Blazers wouldn't pass up.

McCollum:
Age: 24
- PER: 19.0
- PPG: 21.0
- APG: 4.3
- RPG: 3.7
- SPG: 1.3

Okafor:
Age: 20
- PER: 15.4
- PPG: 17.3
- APG: 1.2
- RPG: 7.9
- BPG: 1.2

Even considering some of Okafor's negatives, I don't think they'd give him up cheap. I'd love to say CJ and (Kaman or Henderson), but my guess is a more realistic trade would include Leonard. That would certainly give the Blazers a bit of balance in the roster. Not going to happen.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I actually wouldn't do the deal. Okafor is horrible on D (CJ even bests him on that side of the ball - although not hard as long as you try and beats him on O too). I would rather have Noel personally. But in reality both teams probably say no on both sides no matter which big you are talking about.

 

[Cippy91]

I really don't get the idiots who really like the idea of trading cj especially halfway through the first season he's actually starting and getting minutes. Why would you get rid of a piece of one of the best back courts in the NBA? I don't get it. It's obvious dame and cj have great chemistry and a good relationship, yet here are some fans wanting to try to destroy it for who the fuck knows why. In the next couple years you could add some great pieces to this roster and make it a contender. Teams will have issues with a better roster and dame and cj leading the way. They are a real problem for teams, yeah the defense isn't that great by those two but they won't be stopped especially when this roster gets even better with more weapons that defenses have to focus on. What a great story it would be for this backcourt of two very underrated guards coming out of small schools to lead a team to a title but I forgot a lot of blazer fans love to fuck with the dumbest of ideas. "Hey lets trade cj for Tristan Thompson or okafor." Are you out of your fucking mind? This shit baffles me but hey whatever if you can't see it then maybe basketball isn't your thing.

 

[42N8Bounce]

I really don't get the idiots who really like the idea of trading cj especially halfway through the first season he's actually starting and getting minutes. Why would you get rid of a piece of one of the best back courts in the NBA? I don't get it. It's obvious dame and cj have great chemistry and a good relationship, yet here are some fans wanting to try to destroy it for who the fuck knows why ... but I forgot a lot of blazer fans love to fuck with the dumbest of ideas. "Hey lets trade cj for Tristan Thompson or okafor." Are you out of your fucking mind? This shit baffles me but hey whatever if you can't see it then maybe basketball isn't your thing.

I think calling people idiots for considering ways to improve the team is a bit harsh. I think there's a difference from 'shopping' a player, and listening to offers. I'm a huge CJ fan, but if a team comes to the Blazers with an offer that potentially improves the team, I certainly hope the Blazers listen.

 

[Cippy91]

I think calling people idiots for considering ways to improve the team is a bit harsh. I think there's a difference from 'shopping' a player, and listening to offers. I'm a huge CJ fan, but if a team comes to the Blazers with an offer that potentially improves the team, I certainly hope the Blazers listen.

Go up to Neil or any gm in the league and ask them if cj for nerlens Noel, okafor, or Thompson is a smart move. These are all moves proposed in this thread that are pretty ridiculous. I think it's totally acceptable for the word idiot. This dudes a rising star. Pair him and his mid range game and ability to create his shots with dames athleticism and that's a mean back court as proven so far. Add some better pieces next year and it's looking scary. I mean yeah some day if there is a trade we absolutely can't pass up on then go for it but there is no reason to trade him or even think about it. People should be happy we have such a dangerous offensive backcourt but instead, not even a full season in with this duo, fans talking reckless about trading cj. It's the craziest thing in the world to me. We haven't even seen what this duo can do with an even more stacked team in years to come and people wanna make trades for average bigs. Come on now. If anybody thinks cj is even being thought of for trades, they are crazy. This is our future back court and talent will be added around them. I mean what thread are we gonna see next, "trading Allen crabbe". Can't people be excited about these players we got developing into their own and actually want to be here and play for Portland

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I really don't get the idiots who really like the idea of trading cj especially halfway through the first season he's actually starting and getting minutes. Why would you get rid of a piece of one of the best back courts in the NBA? I don't get it. It's obvious dame and cj have great chemistry and a good relationship, yet here are some fans wanting to try to destroy it for who the fuck knows why. In the next couple years you could add some great pieces to this roster and make it a contender. Teams will have issues with a better roster and dame and cj leading the way. They are a real problem for teams, yeah the defense isn't that great by those two but they won't be stopped especially when this roster gets even better with more weapons that defenses have to focus on. What a great story it would be for this backcourt of two very underrated guards coming out of small schools to lead a team to a title but I forgot a lot of blazer fans love to fuck with the dumbest of ideas. "Hey lets trade cj for Tristan Thompson or okafor." Are you out of your fucking mind? This shit baffles me but hey whatever if you can't see it then maybe basketball isn't your thing.

No need to be a dick about it.

 

[BonesJones]

No need to be a dick about it.

I dont think I disagree with him though

 

[BonesJones]

Can't people be excited about these players we got developing into their own and actually want to be here and play for Portland

No because theyre developing too much to the point where we might make the playoffs...

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I dont think I disagree with him though

I don't think we should trade CJ either. Doesn't mean he should be calling people idiots and shit simply because they have different opinions.

 

[BlazerWookee]

One player has been consistently pretty good over his career, and has continued to improve. The other has not.

Oh come now. Derozan may not be great, but he's pretty good at the very least...

 

[BlazerWookee]

No because theyre developing too much to the point where we might make the playoffs...

"developing too much," lol...

 

[mook]

Travis Outlaw
LaMarcus Aldridge
Darius Miles
Bonzi Wells
Zach Randolph
Rasheed Wallace
Greg Oden
Brandon Roy

What do these guys have in common? They were all, at some point in their Blazers career, if not untouchable then at least priced extremely highly by management and Blazers fans. Too young. Too promising. Why give up on them for somebody else more experienced/at a greater position of need? What if they become another Jermaine O'Neal?

This is a very old argument applied to yet another young Blazer, CJ McCollum.

In hindsight, a lot of these guys we probably should have dumped when their stock was higher. Instead we lost nearly all of them for peanuts or nothing at all. Not because they were bad players. Often, they didn't quite fit. Sometimes we just flat overrated them, and all that upside didn't pay off. Sometimes it was just injuries.

Timing an asset to get the very most out of it when you sell it is very tricky, and is usually very unpopular at the time if you do it right.

NBA management, incidentally, rarely gets criticized for holding on to a guy too long. Nobody is calling for NO's head now because we didn't trade Aldridge when we could have. But loss aversion is a powerful, unrecognized force in trade decisions. (How long ago did Jermaine O'Neal trade happen? Yet it's burned in our brains. But looking at the above examples, it's the exception and not the rule.) We fear more giving up on what we have than giving up on what we could have.

It's not idiocy at all to discuss trading pieces that don't quite fit, especially when one of those pieces could fit so well on other teams (and could consequentially yield us so much in exchange).

CJ's talents are extremely valuable in the modern NBA. Teams that have shoot-first point guards who can create their own shot and hit threes and have great personalities and are young are incredibly valuable. CJ ticks all those boxes.

But recent history seems to show that only one of those guys are valuable per team.

We need to upgrade a lot of things. CJ can help us do that.

 

[RR7]

Recent history shows only one is valuable per team?

 

[Tunchi]

Travis Outlaw
LaMarcus Aldridge
Darius Miles
Bonzi Wells
Zach Randolph
Rasheed Wallace
Greg Oden
Brandon Roy

What do these guys have in common? They were all, at some point in their Blazers career, if not untouchable then at least priced extremely highly by management and Blazers fans. Too young. Too promising. Why give up on them for somebody else more experienced/at a greater position of need? What if they become another Jermaine O'Neal?

This is a very old argument applied to yet another young Blazer, CJ McCollum.

In hindsight, a lot of these guys we probably should have dumped when their stock was higher. Instead we lost nearly all of them for peanuts or nothing at all. Not because they were bad players. Often, they didn't quite fit. Sometimes we just flat overrated them, and all that upside didn't pay off. Sometimes it was just injuries.

Timing an asset to get the very most out of it when you sell it is very tricky, and is usually very unpopular at the time if you do it right.

NBA management, incidentally, rarely gets criticized for holding on to a guy too long. Nobody is calling for NO's head now because we didn't trade Aldridge when we could have. But loss aversion is a powerful, unrecognized force in trade decisions. (How long ago did Jermaine O'Neal trade happen? Yet it's burned in our brains. But looking at the above examples, it's the exception and not the rule.) We fear more giving up on what we have than giving up on what we could have.

It's not idiocy at all to discuss trading pieces that don't quite fit, especially when one of those pieces could fit so well on other teams (and could consequentially yield us so much in exchange).

CJ's talents are extremely valuable in the modern NBA. Teams that have shoot-first point guards who can create their own shot and hit threes and have great personalities and are young are incredibly valuable. CJ ticks all those boxes.

But recent history seems to show that only one of those guys are valuable per team.

We need to upgrade a lot of things. CJ can help us do that.

What's the recent history your citing?

 

[mook]

Recent history shows only one is valuable per team?

Name some teams with dual point guards, both starting, in the Lillard mold who have made it to conference finals.

 

[RR7]

Name some teams with dual point guards, both starting, in the Lillard mold who have made it to conference finals.

That's doing your work for you. You said recent history shows only one is valuable. I'm asking you to back up that claim.

 

[handiman]

How do you put CJ in that mix and not Dame???

Travis Outlaw
LaMarcus Aldridge
Darius Miles
Bonzi Wells
Zach Randolph
Rasheed Wallace
Greg Oden
Brandon Roy

What do these guys have in common? They were all, at some point in their Blazers career, if not untouchable then at least priced extremely highly by management and Blazers fans. Too young. Too promising. Why give up on them for somebody else more experienced/at a greater position of need? What if they become another Jermaine O'Neal?

This is a very old argument applied to yet another young Blazer, CJ McCollum.

In hindsight, a lot of these guys we probably should have dumped when their stock was higher. Instead we lost nearly all of them for peanuts or nothing at all. Not because they were bad players. Often, they didn't quite fit. Sometimes we just flat overrated them, and all that upside didn't pay off. Sometimes it was just injuries.

Timing an asset to get the very most out of it when you sell it is very tricky, and is usually very unpopular at the time if you do it right.

NBA management, incidentally, rarely gets criticized for holding on to a guy too long. Nobody is calling for NO's head now because we didn't trade Aldridge when we could have. But loss aversion is a powerful, unrecognized force in trade decisions. (How long ago did Jermaine O'Neal trade happen? Yet it's burned in our brains. But looking at the above examples, it's the exception and not the rule.) We fear more giving up on what we have than giving up on what we could have.

It's not idiocy at all to discuss trading pieces that don't quite fit, especially when one of those pieces could fit so well on other teams (and could consequentially yield us so much in exchange).

CJ's talents are extremely valuable in the modern NBA. Teams that have shoot-first point guards who can create their own shot and hit threes and have great personalities and are young are incredibly valuable. CJ ticks all those boxes.

But recent history seems to show that only one of those guys are valuable per team.

We need to upgrade a lot of things. CJ can help us do that.

 

[mook]

I'm being a little clumsy here--I'm not saying that CJ has no value to us. I'm saying he's an imperfect fit. But guys like CJ and Lillard are just a gold mine right now. Especially with Curry tearing up the league--everybody wants a guy who can be even a little like him.

Lillard's plantar fasciitis has been a godsend. It's demonstrated to every NBA team that CJ can run a team just as well, and perhaps even better (with some practice) than Lillard. He is a point guard, masquerading as a shooting guard because it's the only space we have when Lillard is healthy.

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd suspect that CJ, Lillard and Blazer management met, and had a discussion something like this:
NO: Dame, how do you feel about you breaking up your Iron Man streak?
DL: Whuh?
NO: Another team really want CJ as their starting PG. But they ain't buying without seeing how he runs the show.
CJ: Really? I get my own team?
NO: You cool with that?
DL: CJ is my man. We can't trade him.
CJ: Hold on, you mean I get to run my own offense?
NO: Yep.
DL: You really want this?
CJ: It's fun being your sidekick, but I want to cash the same shoe contracts you do.
DL: Well....
NO: You want to have Demarcus Cousins to throw it down to?
CJ: Done.
DL: Done.
NO: Done.

 

[Cippy91]

I don't think I was being a dick about it. It's truly idiotic to even suggest a cj for Thompson or Noel. I don't understand what a few of you want? An average big? We have two players that play similar, what's the issue? They aren't exactly the same. That's a nightmare for defenses. That's what we want. Focus on dame, hit cj, and vice versa. Then you have Allen crabbe becoming a stud this season, he's earned his keep. Look at the offensive power those three alone have, then add another max guy or whatever they decide in the coming years to bring great talent here. We aren't even half way through the season and we are talking trade cj. He hasn't even won most improved yet, has t fully shown us his capabilities and it's trade cj. Yeah okay...this dude will be an all star eventually but trade him, yeah smart move right now. Think

 

[mook]

That's doing your work for you. You said recent history shows only one is valuable. I'm asking you to back up that claim.

Somebody here can easily cite a counter-example of two Lillard-types succeeding then. It's an easily disprovable point, if not true.

 

[RR7]

Somebody here can easily cite a counter-example of two Lillard-types succeeding then. It's an easily disprovable point.

Easily disprovable. Great. One example on either side doesn't make a rule. But just curious when teams did what you said recently and it failed.

 

[mook]

How do you put CJ in that mix and not Dame???

Well, he is in the mix. But I left him off because I thought it'd be too controversial.

Truth is that if Lillard were younger and not already locked up to a long-term deal, I'd be just as interested in trading him. But I think DL is too marketable now to the Blazers, he's the face of the franchise. And he's the incumbent. We can't trade him.

I'm a fan of both players and the Blazers. I love CJ, and I'll be a fan of his no matter if he were playing for any team in the league (except Lakers. Fuck the Lakers. Oh yeah, fuck the Spurs as long as they have Aldridge as well. And fuck the Clippers and Rockets. He'd be dead to me on those teams.)

 

[mook]

Easily disprovable. Great. One example on either side doesn't make a rule. But just curious when teams did what you said recently and it failed.

I don't understand your point. Seems pretty obvious to me that scoring point guards are doing fantastic right now. But teams like Phoenix or Golden State (Monte Ellis era) who have had multiple good point guards didn't do so hot.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

CJ isn't a scoring PG. He is a SG who can play the point (better than most which is great).

 

[Draco]

Personally I don't see how it matters. To win a championship you usually need 2 MAX guys and 1 near max guy. It doesn't matter what position those are just that they have the talent to backup their contract. I don't think CJ gets new MAX money but he will get old MAX money (which won't look that high anymore) during his next contract.

Paul will pay out the butt if needed provided the team shows it is ready to take the step.

20 teams with max cap room and very few quality free agents means CJ will certainly get the max. Enes Kanter, Tobias Harris and a torn achillies Wes all got the max.