Zombie Trading CJ (2 Viewers)

[mook]

Well, I was wrong that we'd have traded him by now. I still think we will at some point. But we're going to have to lose some more before it becomes acceptable. Even at .500, it's just really risky for the GM to stake his career on trading a young, talented, locked-into-a-long-contract cornerstone.

With Dame and CJ as our cornerstones, I just don't see Portland ever getting past the first round (barring injuries like happened with the Clips). It's just too much defensive pressure on the team to have to cover for all the open shots they give up.

 

[Tunchi]

Well, I was wrong that we'd have traded him by now. I still think we will at some point. But we're going to have to lose some more before it becomes acceptable. Even at .500, it's just really risky for the GM to stake his career on trading a young, talented, locked-into-a-long-contract cornerstone.

With Dame and CJ as our cornerstones, I just don't see Portland ever getting past the first round (barring injuries like happened with the Clips). It's just too much defensive pressure on the team to have to cover for all the open shots they give up.

Yup one of them has to go. I would love Cj for Cousins but I don't like how Cousins could walk in free agency so that makes me hesitant to pull that trigger

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yup one of them has to go. I would love Cj for Cousins but I don't like how Cousins could walk in free agency so that makes me hesitant to pull that trigger

Realistically, If we traded CJ for DMC today, what do you think our record ends up being then?

I see it this way. DMC is tired of losing. He has been on that shitty losing team his whole career. If we could get him, get 45-55 wins, make the playoffs and make it to the second round?
I think he says yes!!! A winning team. Lets stay with this, let them put the right role players around us and we are major players/contenders for the next decade.

Winning means ALOT to most disgruntled stars. Show me a head case on a winning team? There have been a few (Rodman), but by and large, most disgruntled stars that seem to have issues are on losing teams like DMC and Carmelo.

I think its worth the risk and believe that Dame, combined with winning, can bring the best out of him.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Okay, I cant get the trade machine to do what I want because of untouchables until later, but the moment all of these players are open for trading, what about this colossal 4 team trade???

Portland gets:

NO - Anthony Davis, Tyreke Evans
SAC - Willy Cauly Stein
PHI - Okafor

NO Gets:

SAC - DMC
POR - ED Davis, Connaughton

SAC Gets:

POR - CJ, Aminu, Meyers

Philly Gets:

SAC - Pondexter, Crabbe (or Turner?)


I think the money would roughly work out, may need small tweaks and/or fillers to make it all work, but that would leave us looking like this:

Dame/Napier/Quarterman
Evans/Crabbe?
Harkless/Layman
AD/Vonleh
Okafor/Plumlee


Is that even remotely possible in my fantasy world?

We wold obviously need to fill a couple holes, but I think NO is good at finding young cheap role players. That's a pretty hot balanced lineup no? Scoring, Defense...
Yeah, I'm still kinda drunk...

 

[Sarni]

We should first try to trade for a good big avoiding letting CJ go - could be second tier but still very good like Noel, Valanciunas, Lopez etc. If that fails, a straight up CJ for Cousins but ONLY if we get assurances from Cousins that he will extend here beyond 2018 - even sign him up immediately until 2022.

Otherwise keep CJ because in the next 12-18 months there will come an opportunity to trade him for a top talent. Even getting something like Jabari Parker + Milwaukee's pick would be good for us. We may also get a good big without giving up CJ. Honestly, either trade him for an absolute superstar or not at all. Trading him to Philly would be silly.

 

[Nikolokolus]

We should first try to trade for a good big avoiding letting CJ go - could be second tier but still very good like Noel, Valanciunas, Lopez etc. If that fails, a straight up CJ for Cousins but ONLY if we get assurances from Cousins that he will extend here beyond 2018 - even sign him up immediately until 2022.

Otherwise keep CJ because in the next 12-18 months there will come an opportunity to trade him for a top talent. Even getting something like Jabari Parker + Milwaukee's pick would be good for us. We may also get a good big without giving up CJ. Honestly, either trade him for an absolute superstar or not at all. Trading him to Philly would be silly.

Not to be rude, but this is delusional; I think you vastly overrate CJ's market if you believe that A) we have enough ballast to add to a trade to get Parker alone (never mind their pick) and B) that this team is going to be able to trade its table scraps and "get a good big" without throwing CJ into the mix.

Which players on this team are other GMs salivating over and dying to acquire in trade? I'd say it's a pretty fucking short list of 2, and even then I suspect McCollum isn't quite the prize people around here imagine. He's a smallish 2 guard that doesn't draw a lot of fouls and is a poor defender, but he's a good shooter. If there is any trade to be made it's probably CJ for a draft pick in the mid-lottery range.

 

[Sarni]

Not to be rude, but this is delusional; I think you vastly overrate CJ's market if you believe that A) we have enough ballast to add to a trade to get Parker alone (never mind their pick) and B) that this team is going to be able to trade its table scraps and "get a good big" without throwing CJ into the mix.

Which players on this team are other GMs salivating over and dying to acquire in trade? I'd say it's a pretty fucking short list of 2, and even then I suspect McCollum isn't quite the prize people around here imagine. He's a smallish 2 guard that doesn't draw a lot of fouls and is a poor defender, but he's a good shooter. If there is any trade to be made it's probably CJ for a draft pick in the mid-lottery range.

Seriously, CJ for a mid-lottery pick? We may as well close the business altogether if we are trading a 20 ppg consistent proven player for a mid-lottery draft pick. What's next, the rest of our team combined for top 55 protected 2nd round pick? Lillard for no. 12 pick from Washington?

I know the rest of our team is not great but they are not that terrible. Players like Aminu, Crabbe and Harkless have some value. Plumlee could be a good back up at a lot of teams. I am not saying we will get Cousins for them but there will be players with lowish stock that we could work with - Noel for Crabbe could be doable, Faried for Aminu and something could be doable. We could get Monroe for scrubs and it might work out better for us too. I don't buy that all our player are worthless because we lost three games in a row in the middle of November. I don't believe that McCollum is worth as much as George Hill either.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Seriously, CJ for a mid-lottery pick? We may as well close the business altogether if we are trading a 20 ppg consistent proven player for a mid-lottery draft pick. What's next, the rest of our team combined for top 55 protected 2nd round pick? Lillard for no. 12 pick from Washington?

I know the rest of our team is not great but they are not that terrible. Players like Aminu, Crabbe and Harkless have some value. Plumlee could be a good back up at a lot of teams. I am not saying we will get Cousins for them but there will be players with lowish stock that we could work with - Noel for Crabbe could be doable, Faried for Aminu and something could be doable. We could get Monroe for scrubs and it might work out better for us too. I don't buy that all our player are worthless because we lost three games in a row in the middle of November. I don't believe that McCollum is worth as much as George Hill either.

We have a lot of middling players being paid a lot of money (Crabbe, Turner, Harkless, et al.) that are producing very little. Expensive players with a lot of years left on their current deals, that don't make a difference are the least desirable trade commodities in the NBA.

As for CJ being a super-desirable acquisition, I'm sure there's some contender out there that would be happy to have him as a third "star," but what would they be wanting to trade for him? Also, is anybody looking at him seriously as a foundation piece to build around? I doubt it.

 

[Sinobas]

We have a lot of middling players being paid a lot of money (Crabbe, Turner, Harkless, et al.) that are producing very little. Expensive players with a lot of years left on their current deals, that don't make a difference are the least desirable trade commodities in the NBA.

As for CJ being a super-desirable acquisition, I'm sure there's some contender out there that would be happy to have him as a third "star," but what would they be wanting to trade for him? Also, is anybody looking at him seriously as a foundation piece to build around? I doubt it.

That's what I've been trying to tell all the yahoos on this forum that are calling Turner, Crabbe and Leonard "trade assets". If your contract outstrips your value as a player you've got negative value in a trade. I don't see why this is so difficult for some to understand.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Would we be having this conversation about Giannis Antetokounmpo? Rudy Gobert? Or even Steven Adams?

Bear that in mind when we praise Olshey as a drafting genius.

(Disclaimer: I really do like CJ. When he does well, he's probably my fave Blazer. But there were several players available who would've been much more useful, and would still be. Especially as we went on to draft Allen Crabbe in the same draft, who will never get the minutes he needs so long as we have CJ.)

 

[Sarni]

We have a lot of middling players being paid a lot of money (Crabbe, Turner, Harkless, et al.) that are producing very little. Expensive players with a lot of years left on their current deals, that don't make a difference are the least desirable trade commodities in the NBA.

As for CJ being a super-desirable acquisition, I'm sure there's some contender out there that would be happy to have him as a third "star," but what would they be wanting to trade for him? Also, is anybody looking at him seriously as a foundation piece to build around? I doubt it.

Then don't trade him. Don't send our second best player for no. 9 pick or something when the rest of the team is poor.

I agree about Leonard and Turner and did not mention them. Aminu has a good contract, so does Davis. Crabbe has a crap contract but he is a good player and a team like Philadelphia won't get a shooting guard better than him anyway, and have nothing to do with their cap space because nobody of note will sign there for 2-3 years.

 

[Sarni]

Would we be having this conversation about Giannis Antetokounmpo? Rudy Gobert? Or even Steven Adams?

Bear that in mind when we praise Olshey as a drafting genius.

(Disclaimer: I really do like CJ. When he does well, he's probably my fave Blazer. But there were several players available who would've been much more useful, and would still be. Especially as we went on to draft Allen Crabbe in the same draft, who will never get the minutes he needs so long as we have CJ.)

Antetokoumpo would be incredinle for us now but seriously, did anyone predict him to be this good at the time? The guy is a freak.

 

[TBpup]

I see some "I don't care if they are contenders or win championships as long as they are nice and all get along" types of posts. So if they don't care about winning, why should we?

 

[TBpup]

Antetokoumpo would be incredinle for us now but seriously, did anyone predict him to be this good at the time? The guy is a freak.

Discovery69 did. He also called Durant over Oden and has quite the incredible record as a Draft prognosticator in terms of who would be good going into the NBA.

 

[Sinobas]

Would we be having this conversation about Giannis Antetokounmpo? Rudy Gobert? Or even Steven Adams?

Bear that in mind when we praise Olshey as a drafting genius.

(Disclaimer: I really do like CJ. When he does well, he's probably my fave Blazer. But there were several players available who would've been much more useful, and would still be. Especially as we went on to draft Allen Crabbe in the same draft, who will never get the minutes he needs so long as we have CJ.)

I think you give a GM cred anytime they draft a good player. Not even #1 picks are sure things.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Discovery69 did. He also called Durant over Oden and has quite the incredible record as a Draft prognosticator in terms of who would be good going into the NBA.

There were more than a few out there that called Durant over Oden. When push comes to shove though there were less than a handful (if even one) that would have had the balls to actually make the pick had they been in charge of doing it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Antetokoumpo would be incredinle for us now but seriously, did anyone predict him to be this good at the time? The guy is a freak.

Same with Gobert. But hey, that's why GMs get the big bucks. So we could've got the big Buck.

 

[TBpup]

D69 had Gobert rated #3 in that Draft. The guy is amazing to listen to in regards to the Draft every year.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

D69 had Gobert rated #3 in that Draft. The guy is amazing to listen to in regards to the Draft every year.

But even better is the strangely ignored "CuriousDoggyStyle".

 

[Nikolokolus]

Then don't trade him. Don't send our second best player for no. 9 pick or something when the rest of the team is poor.

I agree about Leonard and Turner and did not mention them. Aminu has a good contract, so does Davis. Crabbe has a crap contract but he is a good player and a team like Philadelphia won't get a shooting guard better than him anyway, and have nothing to do with their cap space because nobody of note will sign there for 2-3 years.

A couple of points: it's not that hard to draft a shooting guard on par with Crabbe, so that's a cheaper contract for similar production. Secondly, if the ultimate goal is to win a title and Damian and CJ as a tandem aren't good enough defensively to get us there ,then everything (short of trading Lillard) needs to be on the table; early returns this season suggest we might be closer to a tear down and rebuild than title contention.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Maybe Neil thinks that Paul George will become available?

 

[Sarni]

A couple of points: it's not that hard to draft a shooting guard on par with Crabbe, so that's a cheaper contract for similar production. Secondly, if the ultimate goal is to win a title and Damian and CJ as a tandem aren't good enough defensively to get us there ,then everything (short of trading Lillard) needs to be on the table; early returns this season suggest we might be closer to a tear down and rebuild than title contention.

CJ and Dame are not the problem. The rest of the team is the problem and if we could solve it by trading CJ for a star, then do it. Not for a mid first round pick or something, that is silly. You keep a player, develop him for 4 years, make him a top 5 shooting guard in the league and then give him up for another project you will have to spend years on. The last two drafts who went around that number who would make an impact here until now? Devin Booker.

Maybe something like Noel plus Lakers pick from Phila. On their forum they are very keen on that idea. Lakers pick should be around 10 and it is top 3 protected only for this year. Phila will draft point guard will their pick, they don't need the other one.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

We're not trading CJ. It would be extremely difficult to get the same scoring output from this team without him. Crabbe has value though. He'll be the guy that gets moved with other pieces.

 

[Rhal]

CJ and Dame are not the problem. The rest of the team is the problem and if we could solve it by trading CJ for a star, then do it. Not for a mid first round pick or something, that is silly. You keep a player, develop him for 4 years, make him a top 5 shooting guard in the league and then give him up for another project you will have to spend years on. The last two drafts who went around that number who would make an impact here until now? Devin Booker.

Maybe something like Noel plus Lakers pick from Phila. On their forum they are very keen on that idea. Lakers pick should be around 10 and it is top 3 protected only for this year. Phila will draft point guard will their pick, they don't need the other one.

Noels a FA after this season and he will get a TON of money. We would have to pay him pretty much the same contract as CJ and he has had health problems his entire NBA career, not something 'id take that risk on.

 

[riverman]

I'm starting to think we should play our 3rd stringers as 2nd stringers for a stretch....wake up the bench mob....Napier, Layman and Vonleh play pretty well together.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Bump!! The Blazers have to do something. Dame and CJ are too damn similar players and together the defense just flat sucks! I really want a big splash move to happen.

 

[ripcityboy]

The Blazers might want to wait till the offseason before doing anything drastic. It's obvious this group of players just doesn't work and no one single trade is going to much of a difference. CJ may be a part of the future and he might not be, but they have to consolidate their assets and get the most bang for their buck. The way the team is playing right now a lot of our players just aren't that appealing.

 

[GDiama]

The Blazers might want to wait till the offseason before doing anything drastic. It's obvious this group of players just doesn't work and no one single trade is going to much of a difference. CJ may be a part of the future and he might not be, but they have to consolidate their assets and get the most bang for their buck. The way the team is playing right now a lot of our players just aren't that appealing.

I don't think the GMs are that shortsighted that they don't find our players appealing. They know who is valuable and who is not, who has potential and who doesn't. It's like us talking about Nurkic or Noel. They don't play any mins but we know they would be useful.

 

[blue9]

We really should have offered CJ for Butler over the summer.

 

[BigGameDamian]

We really should have offered CJ for Butler over the summer.

I wonder if it's too late?