Trail Blazers gear up for legislative ask that would ‘guarantee’ team’s future in Portland (3 Viewers)

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“Decaying arena”, eh?
Bill Oram says:

"But he (Silver) is also not omnipotent. He works for the NBA’s 30 owners, and the 29 not named Dundon won’t want to subsidize a middling team in a decaying arena and a flagging market forever."

Flagging market? Has Bill Oram seen what's going on in New Orleans?

As specified by Kris Murray and Blake Wesley, the two worst places to play (atmosphere-wise) are New Orleans and Washington D.C.

Aren't all arenas "decaying?" There are many that were built in the 90s.
 
Bill Oram says:

"But he (Silver) is also not omnipotent. He works for the NBA’s 30 owners, and the 29 not named Dundon won’t want to subsidize a middling team in a decaying arena and a flagging market forever."

Flagging market? Has Bill Oram seen what's going on in New Orleans?

As specified by Kris Murray and Blake Wesley, the two worst places to play (atmosphere-wise) are New Orleans and Washington D.C.

Aren't all arenas "decaying?" There are many that were built in the 90s.
the Moda is pretty old; IIRC 7th oldest...23 of 30 arenas are newer

but Oram was over the top with his hyperbole...I've got teeth 40 years older than the Moda and the decay is minor

personally, I think this entire process has been too rushed and too motivated by anxiety. I haven't seen a single analysis of how wise it would be to invest 600-700M in a 32-33 year old arena vs spending 1.2-1.3B on a brand new state of the art arena. Floating hundreds of millions in bonds that at the end of their 20 year term paid off the debt of a 52 year old building vs millions in bonds that paid off a 20 year old building

I also haven't seen a single comment by the Dundon group about this bill the legislature passed. Supposedly, it's all contingent on the new owner agreeing to keep the Blazers in Portland for 20 more years. It would be a little encouraging if they said something
 

"The pressure to rely heavily on public investment came on strong. Karl Lisle, the city’s head of the spectator venues, which includes Moda Center, said in a Jan. 23 chat message to colleagues in the mayor’s office that a Blazers lobbyist told him “100% public financing is the only solution.”"

Dundon is gonna have to show off his private participation at some point--buying the team for $4.2B is a nice investment but those dollars go to the Allen Estate, not the Oregon taxpayer.
 
Can someone tell me how much money does the Blazers bring in, vs how much money they're asking for.
 
the Moda is pretty old; IIRC 7th oldest...23 of 30 arenas are newer

but Oram was over the top with his hyperbole...I've got teeth 40 years older than the Moda and the decay is minor

personally, I think this entire process has been too rushed and too motivated by anxiety. I haven't seen a single analysis of how wise it would be to invest 600-700M in a 32-33 year old arena vs spending 1.2-1.3B on a brand new state of the art arena. Floating hundreds of millions in bonds that at the end of their 20 year term paid off the debt of a 52 year old building vs millions in bonds that paid off a 20 year old building

I also haven't seen a single comment by the Dundon group about this bill the legislature passed. Supposedly, it's all contingent on the new owner agreeing to keep the Blazers in Portland for 20 more years. It would be a little encouraging if they said something
Not sure who this Orem guy is……but I believe it’s safe to say he hasn’t been to any other arena but Moda to have an opinion on it’s state.
 
it's going to be really interesting to see how Portlands City Council and Dundon jive on getting a 20 year lease deal done or something way short. Im all for pressure being put on city council to not fuck around on this one. This City and State needs to prove we can not only be business friindly enough to attract new business but just a critical retaining existing business's.
“Leadership begins with clear-eyed recognition that Portland and Oregon will need to compete with other cities who are likely already plotting to woo the next Blazers owner to their city,” read the joint letter sent in July. All hands on deck...Maybe Uncle Phil and Dundon can develop the area around Moda.
 
Can someone tell me how much money does the Blazers bring in, vs how much money they're asking for.
those kinds of stats are pretty complicated and usually are presented in front of some agenda

complicated? let's say some guy named Julius, who makes big bucks moderating a Blazer fan forum while trying to keep a leash on the top dog at the forum decides to take his family to a Blazer game. So he gets his family ready, mainly by yelling at his wife, gently and with deference, to 'get-dressed-already-that-outfit-looks-as-good-as-the-other-one-geeeezuzz' and off they go. And he spends $200-300 on tickets, beverages, snacks, parking.

Now, that $200-300 would be counted as part of the "money the Blazers bring in". But that's not enough context. Good old Julius was a Portland guy spending Portland money at a Portland venue. He could have alternately spent that $200-300 at True Value Hardware, making it part of the money True Value brings to Portland instead of the Blazers. In other words, that's not really money 'brought in', it's just local money changing hands; net neutral. Granted, it's probably better if Julius spends that money in Portland than on that secret monthly subscription to Pornhub, but a guy has to guy, right?

not only that, because of BRI formulas, out of that $200-300, only about $10-15 stays in Portland; the rest is sent to 29 other cities. But that full $200-300 gets counted as "money the Blazers bring in" and it's mostly malarkey

something good old Julius might consider is that these economic multiplier arguments are always presented shiny side up. The other side of the coin isn't shown

an example of that: all these fucking massive Data Centers that have been built in Oregon/Washington in the shadow of the BPA. "these data centers will be great investments bringing in thousands of jobs and leveraging economic multipliers"...at least that's what the local officials were told and armed with shiny-sided coins they dove willy-nilly into the data center business; creating tax-free enterprise zones while salivating over the incoming economic boom. And there was a big boom, temporarily, as the facilities were built. Lots of high paying construction jobs pumping money into the local economies. High Times!

but after the dust settled, it was time to examine the other side of the coin. The first thing was these data centers really don't employ that many people. For the most part they run themselves and as technology improves, especially AI tech, these centers will employ even fewer people. But that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the biggest negative impact of those centers: They are massive power hogs; in both pure electrical consumption and electrical transmission.

and the result of all that is the BPA service region, which used to have the lowest electrical rates in the nation, now has nearly the highest rates in the nation. Julius will have noticed that if he's the one who pays his families monthly electrical bill. Those data centers are good business for the corporate overlords, but they are bad business for every other electrical customer in the Northwest

and there is always another side of the coin. Now, pouring 600-650M into the 31-32 year old Moda Center probably won't have the negative impact those data centers have, but anybody who thinks there's not an un-shiny side of the coin is naive. There always is when when public money is funneled to private business.

personally, I'm opposed to this plan, mostly on principle. That's because I've gown aware of the other sides of these coins. I'm opposed to the state assuming ownership of the Moda by going into a 360M debt and when finally retiring the debt having a 52-53 year old building. I don't think there was any substantial examination of the comparative value of investing 600M in a 32 year old building vs the cost of a brand new, state of the art arena. I'm saying that as somebody with an engineering degree who has spent over 40 years in commercial and residential construction. At some point in time, as a building ages, depreciation of building value becomes a real thing, not just a tax thing. And I was opposed to the 3 governments involved embarking on this process without having any publicly stated commitment from the new owners. Now, maybe there was a private conversation but there's no indication of that. And this entire process seems like a rushed reaction to a vague innocuous comment by the NBA commissioner

I think there are probably some rocks in the road ahead. We just don't know how big the rocks are. And yeah, I know TLDR
 
those kinds of stats are pretty complicated and usually are presented in front of some agenda

complicated? let's say some guy named Julius, who makes big bucks moderating a Blazer fan forum while trying to keep a leash on the top dog at the forum decides to take his family to a Blazer game. So he gets his family ready, mainly by yelling at his wife, gently and with deference, to 'get-dressed-already-that-outfit-looks-as-good-as-the-other-one-geeeezuzz' and off they go. And he spends $200-300 on tickets, beverages, snacks, parking.

Now, that $200-300 would be counted as part of the "money the Blazers bring in". But that's not enough context. Good old Julius was a Portland guy spending Portland money at a Portland venue. He could have alternately spent that $200-300 at True Value Hardware, making it part of the money True Value brings to Portland instead of the Blazers. In other words, that's not really money 'brought in', it's just local money changing hands; net neutral. Granted, it's probably better if Julius spends that money in Portland than on that secret monthly subscription to Pornhub, but a guy has to guy, right?

not only that, because of BRI formulas, out of that $200-300, only about $10-15 stays in Portland; the rest is sent to 29 other cities. But that full $200-300 gets counted as "money the Blazers bring in" and it's mostly malarkey

something good old Julius might consider is that these economic multiplier arguments are always presented shiny side up. The other side of the coin isn't shown

an example of that: all these fucking massive Data Centers that have been built in Oregon/Washington in the shadow of the BPA. "these data centers will be great investments bringing in thousands of jobs and leveraging economic multipliers"...at least that's what the local officials were told and armed with shiny-sided coins they dove willy-nilly into the data center business; creating tax-free enterprise zones while salivating over the incoming economic boom. And there was a big boom, temporarily, as the facilities were built. Lots of high paying construction jobs pumping money into the local economies. High Times!

but after the dust settled, it was time to examine the other side of the coin. The first thing was these data centers really don't employ that many people. For the most part they run themselves and as technology improves, especially AI tech, these centers will employ even fewer people. But that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the biggest negative impact of those centers: They are massive power hogs; in both pure electrical consumption and electrical transmission.

and the result of all that is the BPA service region, which used to have the lowest electrical rates in the nation, now has nearly the highest rates in the nation. Julius will have noticed that if he's the one who pays his families monthly electrical bill. Those data centers are good business for the corporate overlords, but they are bad business for every other electrical customer in the Northwest

and there is always another side of the coin. Now, pouring 600-650M into the 31-32 year old Moda Center probably won't have the negative impact those data centers have, but anybody who thinks there's not an un-shiny side of the coin is naive. There always is when when public money is funneled to private business.

personally, I'm opposed to this plan, mostly on principle. That's because I've gown aware of the other sides of these coins. I'm opposed to the state assuming ownership of the Moda by going into a 360M debt and when finally retiring the debt having a 52-53 year old building. I don't think there was any substantial examination of the comparative value of investing 600M in a 32 year old building vs the cost of a brand new, state of the art arena. I'm saying that as somebody with an engineering degree who has spent over 40 years in commercial and residential construction. At some point in time, as a building ages, depreciation of building value becomes a real thing, not just a tax thing. And I was opposed to the 3 governments involved embarking on this process without having any publicly stated commitment from the new owners. Now, maybe there was a private conversation but there's no indication of that. And this entire process seems like a rushed reaction to a vague innocuous comment by the NBA commissioner

I think there are probably some rocks in the road ahead. We just don't know how big the rocks are. And yeah, I know TLDR
Another thing is that the Trail Blazers take up dates at the Moda Center that might be more profitable for the city if filled by other events.
I assume revenue would be down, maybe a lot, but that's not profit.

From the Google:

Concerts are generally more profitable for indoor arenas than hosting sports teams, as they can generate double the profit, allow for more flexible scheduling, and command higher premium prices
. While sports teams provide a consistent, baseline revenue stream, concerts are now seen as the primary driver for maximum income.


Profitability Comparison
  • Concerts: Concert tickets have reached all-time highs and are growing in popularity, often delivering higher revenue per night. A single high-demand concert can generate up to $300,000 in profits, far surpassing the per-game revenue of many sports teams.
  • Sports Teams: While providing steady income through regular season games, sports teams require higher operational overhead and offer lower profit margins per event compared to music acts.
  • Modern Trends: New arena developers are increasingly skipping professional sports teams to keep their calendars clear for higher-paying concerts.
Factors Impacting Profitability
  • Diversification: Multi-purpose venues that host both concerts and teams, or fill off-peak nights, are most profitable in 2026, allowing them to maximize year-round revenue.
  • Revenue Generation: While teams have high concession and sponsorship revenue (often 40%+ of income), concerts maximize "per-capita" spending.
  • Scheduling: Concerts provide flexibility, while sports teams (like NBA/NHL) require dedicated, long-term locker room space and lock up dates, limiting other opportunities.
Conclusion
For maximizing quick, high-volume profit, concerts are the better option. For steady, consistent occupancy, sports teams are ideal, but the highest revenue potential lies in a flexible mix, with a strong focus on concerts.
 
For maximizing quick, high-volume profit, concerts are the better option. For steady, consistent occupancy, sports teams are ideal, but the highest revenue potential lies in a flexible mix, with a strong focus on concerts.
I have to assume there is a max # of touring concerts that would patronize the Moda if the Blazers left. There are only so many touring arena shows at a given time.
 
it's going to be really interesting to see how Portlands City Council and Dundon jive on getting a 20 year lease deal done or something way short. Im all for pressure being put on city council to not fuck around on this one. This City and State needs to prove we can not only be business friindly enough to attract new business but just a critical retaining existing business's.
“Leadership begins with clear-eyed recognition that Portland and Oregon will need to compete with other cities who are likely already plotting to woo the next Blazers owner to their city,” read the joint letter sent in July. All hands on deck...Maybe Uncle Phil and Dundon can develop the area around Moda.

it’ll pass EASY like it did the state.
 
the Moda is pretty old; IIRC 7th oldest...23 of 30 arenas are newer

but Oram was over the top with his hyperbole...I've got teeth 40 years older than the Moda and the decay is minor

personally, I think this entire process has been too rushed and too motivated by anxiety. I haven't seen a single analysis of how wise it would be to invest 600-700M in a 32-33 year old arena vs spending 1.2-1.3B on a brand new state of the art arena. Floating hundreds of millions in bonds that at the end of their 20 year term paid off the debt of a 52 year old building vs millions in bonds that paid off a 20 year old building

I also haven't seen a single comment by the Dundon group about this bill the legislature passed. Supposedly, it's all contingent on the new owner agreeing to keep the Blazers in Portland for 20 more years. It would be a little encouraging if they said something
Good points. I wholeheartedly agree. Tear down the MC and build a new arena.
 
those kinds of stats are pretty complicated and usually are presented in front of some agenda

complicated? let's say some guy named Julius, who makes big bucks moderating a Blazer fan forum while trying to keep a leash on the top dog at the forum decides to take his family to a Blazer game. So he gets his family ready, mainly by yelling at his wife, gently and with deference, to 'get-dressed-already-that-outfit-looks-as-good-as-the-other-one-geeeezuzz' and off they go. And he spends $200-300 on tickets, beverages, snacks, parking.

Now, that $200-300 would be counted as part of the "money the Blazers bring in". But that's not enough context. Good old Julius was a Portland guy spending Portland money at a Portland venue. He could have alternately spent that $200-300 at True Value Hardware, making it part of the money True Value brings to Portland instead of the Blazers. In other words, that's not really money 'brought in', it's just local money changing hands; net neutral. Granted, it's probably better if Julius spends that money in Portland than on that secret monthly subscription to Pornhub, but a guy has to guy, right?

not only that, because of BRI formulas, out of that $200-300, only about $10-15 stays in Portland; the rest is sent to 29 other cities. But that full $200-300 gets counted as "money the Blazers bring in" and it's mostly malarkey

something good old Julius might consider is that these economic multiplier arguments are always presented shiny side up. The other side of the coin isn't shown

an example of that: all these fucking massive Data Centers that have been built in Oregon/Washington in the shadow of the BPA. "these data centers will be great investments bringing in thousands of jobs and leveraging economic multipliers"...at least that's what the local officials were told and armed with shiny-sided coins they dove willy-nilly into the data center business; creating tax-free enterprise zones while salivating over the incoming economic boom. And there was a big boom, temporarily, as the facilities were built. Lots of high paying construction jobs pumping money into the local economies. High Times!

but after the dust settled, it was time to examine the other side of the coin. The first thing was these data centers really don't employ that many people. For the most part they run themselves and as technology improves, especially AI tech, these centers will employ even fewer people. But that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the biggest negative impact of those centers: They are massive power hogs; in both pure electrical consumption and electrical transmission.

and the result of all that is the BPA service region, which used to have the lowest electrical rates in the nation, now has nearly the highest rates in the nation. Julius will have noticed that if he's the one who pays his families monthly electrical bill. Those data centers are good business for the corporate overlords, but they are bad business for every other electrical customer in the Northwest

and there is always another side of the coin. Now, pouring 600-650M into the 31-32 year old Moda Center probably won't have the negative impact those data centers have, but anybody who thinks there's not an un-shiny side of the coin is naive. There always is when when public money is funneled to private business.

personally, I'm opposed to this plan, mostly on principle. That's because I've gown aware of the other sides of these coins. I'm opposed to the state assuming ownership of the Moda by going into a 360M debt and when finally retiring the debt having a 52-53 year old building. I don't think there was any substantial examination of the comparative value of investing 600M in a 32 year old building vs the cost of a brand new, state of the art arena. I'm saying that as somebody with an engineering degree who has spent over 40 years in commercial and residential construction. At some point in time, as a building ages, depreciation of building value becomes a real thing, not just a tax thing. And I was opposed to the 3 governments involved embarking on this process without having any publicly stated commitment from the new owners. Now, maybe there was a private conversation but there's no indication of that. And this entire process seems like a rushed reaction to a vague innocuous comment by the NBA commissioner

I think there are probably some rocks in the road ahead. We just don't know how big the rocks are. And yeah, I know TLDR
Wait? What is this “Porn Hub” you speak of and what does it cost @julius ?
 

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