Trail of Tears

[CupWizier]

They not me Mrs Olshey, I'm not on the team and neither are you. "Fact is, we..." lol

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...lazers-warriors-nasty-humiliation/3692973002/

STOMP

I like MY team. You have a problem with it, gfy.

CUP

 

[BonesJones]

deleted

Smh.

 

[H.C.]

Smh.

How should I respond to a troll Torey?
Clearly you have something you'd like to say

 

[PtldPlatypus]

@H.C. & @Propagandist I deleted the series of posts from both of you that were nothing but personal in nature. I would kindly request that you both stop sniping at one another.

Thanks.

 

[tester551]

Except you got a lot wrong here.

The luxury tax doesnt limit use of the TPE.

We're talking about tradeable contracts so a two-way contract that doesnt count as anything in the trade isnt a tradeable contract.

The tax wouldnt eliminate us of the MLE, itd simply mean we'd have to use the taxpayer MLE. The difference between a $6M MLE and $9.8M TPE isnt huge, and wouldnt hurt us as bad as having limited trade flexibility.

For contracts over $26M, it becomes far less of an upgrade if we have to use CJ. Having to throw in CJ because of lack of foresight and not having proper tradeable contracts would be silly.

That July hypothetical trade would be reliant on Hood accepting his PO and I've never seen a trade agreed to in advance that includes a player with a PO they have yet to accept.

And I'd rather have Hood, Ariza, and additional 2nd round picks than Whiteside.

Expept I'm not wrong at all.

1) Two-way contracts can be traded... therefore by definition they are tradeable contracts.

2) I wasn't clear enough about the use of the MLE & TPE. Portland 'could' use the exceptions under the terms of the CBA.
However, when the owner sets financial constraints, then the Blazers can't use the MLE or TPE regardless of what may be allowed under the CBA. We're starting the repeater tax in the eye for next season. It would be fiscally irresponsible to go into next season paying the repeater tax on a team that just finished with <40 wins.
Blazers recent actions speak louder than words... the key is that lux tax line. Batum's contract does not increase flexibility because we'd be so damn close to the line - there's be little that could be done & stay below it.

3) So you admit that reading CJ would result in an upgrade... glad we can agree on that.

4) Your right, trading Hood (in June or July) requires him picking up the option. It's a calculated risk to be able to have his contract available as 'trade ballast'. Given the 10% chance that any star we'd want to trade for comes on the market - that's a better risk/reward scenario.

5) Whiteside has been better than Ariza & Hood - and he's integral to this season. We need him more for this season than some 2nds & Batums contract..... neither one of us are calling the shots - so it doesn't matter what YOU or I want.

 

[e_blazer]

Shouldn't the name of this thread be switched to the game thread from last night?

 

[Hobbesarable]

Trail of Tears morphed into Trail of Snipes.

Let's get ready to rumble!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Damn, I needed two cups of coffee to get through just this one thread.

 

[CupWizier]

Damn, I needed two cups of coffee to get through just this one thread.

I suggest having a third about halfway through. Just remember, stomps thinks Olshey should be fired for not drafting Giannis in 2013

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I thought legalized weed would get people to chill out a bit, but boy was I wrong about that.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If only there was a way to see who in this forum wanted to draft which player in 2013.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Relooking at that draft and seeing how many flame outs there were I'm perfectly fine with CJ.

 

[CupWizier]

Relooking at that draft and seeing how many flame outs there were I'm perfectly fine with CJ.

View attachment 29819
View attachment 29820

I know there have been redos for drafts and McCollum was selected as the #3 choice in some i have seen.

 

[tlongII]

CJ was a great pick.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

CJ was a great pick.

I always thought we should have drafted LeBron instead of CJ

 

[Strenuus]

Drafted #10. Because he only cares about his stats (1) and no one elses (0). Perfect.

 

[CupWizier]

Drafted #10. Because he only cares about his stats (1) and no one elses (0). Perfect.

Interesting. Why was Giannis drafted at 15?

 

[BonesJones]

Expept I'm not wrong at all.

1) Two-way contracts can be traded... therefore by definition they are tradeable contracts.

2) I wasn't clear enough about the use of the MLE & TPE. Portland 'could' use the exceptions under the terms of the CBA.
However, when the owner sets financial constraints, then the Blazers can't use the MLE or TPE regardless of what may be allowed under the CBA. We're starting the repeater tax in the eye for next season. It would be fiscally irresponsible to go into next season paying the repeater tax on a team that just finished with <40 wins.
Blazers recent actions speak louder than words... the key is that lux tax line. Batum's contract does not increase flexibility because we'd be so damn close to the line - there's be little that could be done & stay below it.

3) So you admit that reading CJ would result in an upgrade... glad we can agree on that.

4) Your right, trading Hood (in June or July) requires him picking up the option. It's a calculated risk to be able to have his contract available as 'trade ballast'. Given the 10% chance that any star we'd want to trade for comes on the market - that's a better risk/reward scenario.

5) Whiteside has been better than Ariza & Hood - and he's integral to this season. We need him more for this season than some 2nds & Batums contract..... neither one of us are calling the shots - so it doesn't matter what YOU or I want.

1.) Guess I should've explained better. I meant tradeable contracts in terms of contracts that are valuable to the team for trade purposes.

2.) You're worried about a $7.2M TPE, when we could instead of more expiring salary to match what coming in via trade. Having more expiring salary to trade is more helpful than a $7.2M TPE, so I choose that. And chasing role players instead of providing ourselves the opportunity to go get a star to add to our rotation instead of by gutting our rotation would be in line with what this franchise has done, and won't lead to contention. Batum plus minimal contracts put us right around that line, and repeater tax isn't that crazy if youre around the tax-line. It'd be flip that contract for an upgrade to help contend, and/or try to trade it down.

3.) Giving up much more value in a trade than we'd otherwise need to because we have limited flexibility due to a lack of foresight would be a bit of a mistake.

4.) Lots of trades happen in June, not July. Even then, it's $6M, and #3 would likely apply there as well.

5.) Whiteside is not more important to the team than Ariza and Hood when Nurkic and Collins are healthy, and that's not factoring in the risk that he leaves this summer or becomes and overpaid declining player.

 

[hoopsjock]

Most of the people upset about today and all that were people who had already said they'd be mad if Whiteside wasn't traded, or were more than likely going to be upset at NO for whatever he did because they don't like NO.
I believe on the other side most of the people who approve of him, were probably going to be supportive of what he did no matter what too unless he traded Dame or something.
I don't think today "swayed" anyone in terms of how they felt about NO, or the state of the team.

Wrong!



You know I've actually been on team Olshey, except hyping the Crabbe TPE and then letting it expire.

After Thursday I'm willing to admit that I was wrong and this guy Olshey is a complete fraud. I didn't want them to keep Whiteside but if they were going to it makes no sense to either not explore ways to make this team better even if that's just in the buyout market or to to make a trade just to save $2 million. Especially if you factor in revenue from the playoffs would be more than that, even if they only had 2 home games.

Why would he be mandated to only cut part of the tax? If they weren't going to get out of the tax completely why would they risk the bad optics of penny pinching at the peak of Dame's powers? I don't buy that Jody only wanted to save a couple million. I'm guessing she's not happy, granted this is just speculation, but c'mon they won't expore using the roster spot after not signing a big to help the depleted roster all year?

Pick a lane! Get under the tax! Go for it this year! Give up on this year and add assets for next year! My problem isn't that we didn't do exactly what I wanted, it's that we're not committing to any one thing! They're half assing cutting salary and only kind of competing this year.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Drafted #10. Because he only cares about his stats (1) and no one elses (0). Perfect.

That's why Kobe was drafted at #13 ya know.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

ohhhh...this is a fun game! use playoff results as a gauge!

But you can't use just one season for a GM who's been in charge since 2012. You have to use them all

2012-13 - 21st
2013-14 - 8th
2014-15 - 13th
2015-16 - 11th
2016-17 - 16th
2017-18 - 16th
2018-19 - 4th

so, his average is 13th in a 30 team league. Now, if you want to discard that 1st season, and maybe that's fair to a degree, his average is 11th. Not even top-10. And he's had tax teams the last two years when his average is 10th. Blazers should at least be looking for a GM that can keep his team well into the top-10 over a 6 or 7 year time frame. Shouldn't settle for less

It's interesting how you have this conclusion. I think 11th is actually pretty good.

How would we rank teams like Dallas or Miami? Boston is thought to have a great GM. Houston has been good. I certainly dont think Olshey is one of the best, but I think he's a bit better than average.

After the Kevin Pritchard Rich Cho Chad Buchanan era I think better than average isnt bad. My fear in replacing Olshey is we get a bad GM.

 

[kjironman1]

Except you got a lot wrong here.

The luxury tax doesnt limit use of the TPE.

We're talking about tradeable contracts so a two-way contract that doesnt count as anything in the trade isnt a tradeable contract.

The tax wouldnt eliminate us of the MLE, itd simply mean we'd have to use the taxpayer MLE. The difference between a $6M MLE and $9.8M TPE isnt huge, and wouldnt hurt us as bad as having limited trade flexibility.

For contracts over $26M, it becomes far less of an upgrade if we have to use CJ. Having to throw in CJ because of lack of foresight and not having proper tradeable contracts would be silly.

That July hypothetical trade would be reliant on Hood accepting his PO and I've never seen a trade agreed to in advance that includes a player with a PO they have yet to accept.

And I'd rather have Hood, Ariza, and additional 2nd round picks than Whiteside.

Expept I'm not wrong at all.

1) Two-way contracts can be traded... therefore by definition they are tradeable contracts.

2) I wasn't clear enough about the use of the MLE & TPE. Portland 'could' use the exceptions under the terms of the CBA.
However, when the owner sets financial constraints, then the Blazers can't use the MLE or TPE regardless of what may be allowed under the CBA. We're starting the repeater tax in the eye for next season. It would be fiscally irresponsible to go into next season paying the repeater tax on a team that just finished with <40 wins.
Blazers recent actions speak louder than words... the key is that lux tax line. Batum's contract does not increase flexibility because we'd be so damn close to the line - there's be little that could be done & stay below it.

3) So you admit that reading CJ would result in an upgrade... glad we can agree on that.

4) Your right, trading Hood (in June or July) requires him picking up the option. It's a calculated risk to be able to have his contract available as 'trade ballast'. Given the 10% chance that any star we'd want to trade for comes on the market - that's a better risk/reward scenario.

5) Whiteside has been better than Ariza & Hood - and he's integral to this season. We need him more for this season than some 2nds & Batums contract..... neither one of us are calling the shots - so it doesn't matter what YOU or I want.

1.) Guess I should've explained better. I meant tradeable contracts in terms of contracts that are valuable to the team for trade purposes.

2.) You're worried about a $7.2M TPE, when we could instead of more expiring salary to match what coming in via trade. Having more expiring salary to trade is more helpful than a $7.2M TPE, so I choose that. And chasing role players instead of providing ourselves the opportunity to go get a star to add to our rotation instead of by gutting our rotation would be in line with what this franchise has done, and won't lead to contention. Batum plus minimal contracts put us right around that line, and repeater tax isn't that crazy if youre around the tax-line. It'd be flip that contract for an upgrade to help contend, and/or try to trade it down.

3.) Giving up much more value in a trade than we'd otherwise need to because we have limited flexibility due to a lack of foresight would be a bit of a mistake.

4.) Lots of trades happen in June, not July. Even then, it's $6M, and #3 would likely apply there as well.

5.) Whiteside is not more important to the team than Ariza and Hood when Nurkic and Collins are healthy, and that's not factoring in the risk that he leaves this summer or becomes and overpaid declining player.

This was a very good conversation guys. i learned some things from it.

 

[kjironman1]

Wrong!



You know I've actually been on team Olshey, except hyping the Crabbe TPE and then letting it expire.

After Thursday I'm willing to admit that I was wrong and this guy Olshey is a complete fraud. I didn't want them to keep Whiteside but if they were going to it makes no sense to either not explore ways to make this team better even if that's just in the buyout market or to to make a trade just to save $2 million. Especially if you factor in revenue from the playoffs would be more than that, even if they only had 2 home games.

Why would he be mandated to only cut part of the tax? If they weren't going to get out of the tax completely why would they risk the bad optics of penny pinching at the peak of Dame's powers? I don't buy that Jody only wanted to save a couple million. I'm guessing she's not happy, granted this is just speculation, but c'mon they won't expore using the roster spot after not signing a big to help the depleted roster all year?

Pick a lane! Get under the tax! Go for it this year! Give up on this year and add assets for next year! My problem isn't that we didn't do exactly what I wanted, it's that we're not committing to any one thing! They're half assing cutting salary and only kind of competing this year.

It's a bad look for sure.
I read a comment somewhere questioning if the team was for sale now? At first i wondered if that could be the case? But even that doesn't really make sense. Paying to get rid of a player that doesn't even really get you in a better position just seems like a total fail?
If Olshey tried to get rid of Whiteside and there simply was no market? That would make more sense? I also can understand him not coming out and saying that. "Well we wanted to dump Hassan but there wasn't a team willing to take him" would not be a good way to address the situation either.
It seems to me the "Human" factor came into play this season.

 

[HailBlazers]

Wrong!



You know I've actually been on team Olshey, except hyping the Crabbe TPE and then letting it expire.

After Thursday I'm willing to admit that I was wrong and this guy Olshey is a complete fraud. I didn't want them to keep Whiteside but if they were going to it makes no sense to either not explore ways to make this team better even if that's just in the buyout market or to to make a trade just to save $2 million. Especially if you factor in revenue from the playoffs would be more than that, even if they only had 2 home games.

Why would he be mandated to only cut part of the tax? If they weren't going to get out of the tax completely why would they risk the bad optics of penny pinching at the peak of Dame's powers? I don't buy that Jody only wanted to save a couple million. I'm guessing she's not happy, granted this is just speculation, but c'mon they won't expore using the roster spot after not signing a big to help the depleted roster all year?

Pick a lane! Get under the tax! Go for it this year! Give up on this year and add assets for next year! My problem isn't that we didn't do exactly what I wanted, it's that we're not committing to any one thing! They're half assing cutting salary and only kind of competing this year.

Bro, an injured Skal is not worth all the heartache.

 

[CupWizier]

Loop

It's a bad look for sure.
I read a comment somewhere questioning if the team was for sale now? At first i wondered if that could be the case? But even that doesn't really make sense. Paying to get rid of a player that doesn't even really get you in a better position just seems like a total fail?
If Olshey tried to get rid of Whiteside and there simply was no market? That would make more sense? I also can understand him not coming out and saying that. "Well we wanted to dump Hassan but there wasn't a team willing to take him" would not be a good way to address the situation either.
It seems to me the "Human" factor came into play this season.

What's interesting is that nobody has any inside information as to what was tried and what was available as far as being able to get under the tax. The attempts could have very easily been tried but no takers. Skal was a fun player, but if he can't play then he has no value and thus why he was possibly off loaded. No reason to continue paying a player that can't play but posters still complain without knowing the whole story of what transpired up to the trade deadline.

 

[kjironman1]

Loop


What's interesting is that nobody has any inside information as to what was tried and what was available as far as being able to get under the tax. The attempts could have very easily been tried but no takers. Skal was a fun player, but if he can't play then he has no value and thus why he was possibly off loaded. No reason to continue paying a player that can't play but posters still complain without knowing the whole story of what transpired up to the trade deadline.

@hoopsjock has some valid points though. From a business point of view and as far as creating a team that can compete or can be in a position to get better this might well be the worst case scenario that happened. I'm going to just hope the returning players and the players they are invested in at this point can make a run. The Blazers now need to get through not just this season but for the most part next season as well to make any real moves. We don't need "INSIDE INFORMATION" to know this.

 

[wizenheimer]

1.)

5.) Whiteside is not more important to the team than Ariza and Hood when Nurkic and Collins are healthy

since Nurkic has joined the Blazers he's missed 93 of 266 games. That's 35%, or about 29 games a year. He's been a Blazer for 3 playoffs and has only been healthy in one. Now, this could all just be random, but considering he missed 50 games the season before he was traded to Portland, he has a scary injury history. Add that season, and he's missed 143 of 348 games....that's 41% of games

 

[CupWizier]

@hoopsjock has some valid points though. From a business point of view and as far as creating a team that can compete or can be in a position to get better this might well be the worst case scenario that happened. I'm going to just hope the returning players and the players they are invested in at this point can make a run. The Blazers now need to get through not just this season but for the most part next season as well to make any real moves. We don't need "INSIDE INFORMATION" to know this.

Worst case scenario? I think it's being over blown. We have the possibility of re-signing Whiteside, we have around 10 mil to go after a free agents, a few TPE's as well as some young players on rookie or low cost contracts that can move. This year is looking like a down year with a possibility of getting the 8th seed but that's probably the best to expect this year. Next year the team will be retooled and players will hopefully be healthy and then make a run. That's where I disagree with hoopsjock as he acts like this team is done now and in the future where as I see it as a one year hiatus and then back to the grind. Trading Whiteside appears to not have been as lucrative as we had hoped and after seeing the Drummond trade that pretty much shows that to be the case.

By the way, my INSIDE INFORMATION comment was based on complaining about deals that didn't happen without knowing if deals were even discussed. It's like deciding a verdict without hearing the testimony or evidence.

 

[kjironman1]

Next year the team will be retooled and players will hopefully be healthy and then make a run. That's where I disagree with hoopsjock as he acts like this team is done now and in the future where as I see it as a one year hiatus and then back to the grind.

10 Million max. Most likely 6-8 million. Not enough to retool. This is not enough money to go after a player that will really make a difference. Looks more like 2 years and possibly 3 to me. This year and next are in the books. They have to perform with what they have.
I'm hoping they can gel with these players and really start to compete. But look at the obvious issues. Hood has to come back and come back strong. Collins has to come back and come back strong. Nurk has to come back and come back strong. 1M has to develop into a better player than can run the second unit. Little has to continue to develop and become a much better player overall. Melo has to start actually making shots. Whiteside has to not only decide to stay but sign for a contract they can afford and not pay excessive amounts of tax for. Then he has to be willing to play with and around Nurk. Ariza has to not get older? I'm not worried about Lillard or CJ. We know what we have there.
So many things have to go right at this point and they are now going to be a repeater tax team.

 

[wizenheimer]

It's interesting how you have this conclusion. I think 11th is actually pretty good.

in a 30 team league, I don't think averaging 11th best is good. Yeah, it's better than average and 15th. But it's not in the top 1/3rd. It may be good enough for selling tickets in a one-team town, but it sure isn't what I'd call 'good'.

How would we rank teams like Dallas or Miami? Boston is thought to have a great GM. Houston has been good. I certainly dont think Olshey is one of the best, but I think he's a bit better than average.

I agree he's probably a "bit better than average". Is that really what the Blazers should be shooting for?...a little better than average?

I'd also say you have to put an asterisk at that 'bit better than average' claim. He was gifted Damian Lillard and Dame is the reason Portland is not in the purgatory of low lottery picks. And I give Olshey lots of demerits for coasting off Dame's talent, and doing a poor job of building a contender around Dame. Dame's prime is burning away and that's covering Olshey's fence-straddling ass

After the Kevin Pritchard Rich Cho Chad Buchanan era I think better than average isnt bad. My fear in replacing Olshey is we get a bad GM.

well then yeah, I see why you're advocating for Olshey. Basically content with a bit above average and fearful of taking risks.