Politics Trump: Treasonous Traitor and....Impeachment?

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riverman said:
Taiwan
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The independence or not of the people of Taiwan has no logical comparison to the wishes of the people in the Crimea. If anything it is the opposite. Do a little checking with people that know, you may find there has been a correction without US interference. Perhaps Obama stumbled onto the correct actions, despite the teeth gnashing
of his loyalist.

I find it sort of funny the way you speak of the people of Taiwan, as if they were one. They are not, and the native peoples of that island sure did not want all those Chinese that came to their island. For that matter, they were pretty damn pissed at us Americans for helping them overwhelm their island. If a vote were held in those days, residents only voting, the Americans and the Chinese would have been both voted off the island.
Carter returning the island to Mao's gang was complete disconnect with anyone on the island. But it might be similar to another Democrat President forcing the Crimean people back under the rule of the Ukrainians, if we are ever so unfortunate to be in a position to perform the fuck up.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
hell, to create man made islands in international waters
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Yes, allowing this to go down will be and error. Wait until they begin to enforce a 200 mile economic exclusion zone around the island. That will mess with about 5 different countries locally and inhibit trade routes of many more.
 
MarAzul said:
The independence or not of the people of Taiwan has no logical comparison to the wishes of the people in the Crimea. If anything it is the opposite. Do a little checking with people that know, you may find there has been a correction without US interference. Perhaps Obama stumbled onto the correct actions, despite the teeth gnashing
of his loyalist.

I find it sort of funny the way you speak of the people of Taiwan, as if they were one. They are not, and the native peoples of that island sure did not want all those Chinese that came to their island. For that matter, they were pretty damn pissed at us Americans for helping them overwhelm their island. If a vote were held in those days, residents only voting, the Americans and the Chinese would have been both voted off the island.
Carter returning the island to Mao's gang was complete disconnect with anyone on the island. But it might be similar to another Democrat President forcing the Crimean people back under the rule of the Ukrainians, if we are ever so unfortunate to be in a position to perform the fuck up.
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I know more about Taiwan and the Taiwanese....than you'll ever know....don't be ignorant...the Taiwanese have been there for hundreds of years...there are 18 aboriginal tribes with Portuguese, Polynesian and Dutch blood...the Japanese were there for 75 years...the mainland Chinese nationalists are only a portion of the population that over generations has intermarried and become the modern Taiwanese...the Haka people as well..they look down on Chiang Kai Shek there in modern history....as to loyalists from the former Soviet Union.....that's exactly like the orange and green in Ireland....do your homework and get back to me.....I even speak their language...my wife speaks 3 of the Taiwanese languages...you should listen to those with direct experience and not project nonsense Marz…..my Taiwanese in laws would laugh you out of the room with these ridiculous comments...Carter never returned any Taiwanese to Mao.....jesus...read about the KMT and DPP.....there are two political powers in Taiwan....the DPP has elected 3 of the last 4 presidents....you're talkin' out your ass dude..the Paiwan tribe is the original Maoris that sailed to New Zealand....many are my friends...Chiang Kai Shek killed the local leaders and grabbed all the real estate
 
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MarAzul said:
But it might be similar to another Democrat President forcing the Crimean people back under the rule of the Ukrainians, if we are ever so unfortunate to be in a position to perform the fuck up.
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You are building a strawman. No one is suggesting using military force here.

But there is a difference between saying 'we disapprove, we will impose sanctions but we are not going to war over it' and saying 'hey, do whatever you like, we don't really care'. The former is normal America foreign policy, the latter is idiocy which will encourage additional bad behavior.

barfo
 
barfo said:
You are building a strawman. No one is suggesting using military force here.

But there is a difference between saying 'we disapprove, we will impose sanctions but we are not going to war over it' and saying 'hey, do whatever you like, we don't really care'. The former is normal America foreign policy, the latter is idiocy which will encourage additional bad behavior.

barfo
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So I take it that you are not a fan of the past administration?
 
riverman said:
you should listen to those with direct experience and not project nonsense Marz
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Ha! I only gave you first hand experience. Of how it was long before you showed up and all was secure.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
So I take it that you are not a fan of the past administration?
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Not sure what you mean by that. The past administration imposed sanctions on Russia. This one is trying to remove them.

barfo
 
barfo said:
You are building a strawman. No one is suggesting using military force here.

But there is a difference between saying 'we disapprove, we will impose sanctions but we are not going to war over it' and saying 'hey, do whatever you like, we don't really care'. The former is normal America foreign policy, the latter is idiocy which will encourage additional bad behavior.

barfo
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I did not see you make any of these request of the previous President.
I heard no one call him a traitor for not demanding Putin force the Crimean people back under the thumb of the Ukrainians
 
MarAzul said:
But it might be similar to another Democrat President forcing the Crimean people back under the rule of the Ukrainians,
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what the fuck are you even talking about? you must literally have no respect for the people of that region....we didn't force anyone to do shit over there
 
barfo said:
Not sure what you mean by that. The past administration imposed sanctions on Russia. This one is trying to remove them.

barfo
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sure on his way out the door...how did that middle east thing work out...you know the plane load of money..or his dealings with rocket man...oh, wait...come on..not gonna get in the weeds on this, you have to admit that he was far more focused on domestic matters, and feckless else where
 
MarAzul said:
Ha! I only gave you first hand experience. Of how it was long before you showed up and all was secure.
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Chiang Kai Shek is a chapter in Taiwanese history....you were there to watch the Nationalists conquer the island....they've since thrown that shit out the door...even threw away those history books and printed the real ones....and as a sailor...americans were treated really well by the locals....still are...they are no longer Chinese Taipei.....they are now Taiwan..my wife's people have been on that island for 500 years
 
...
 
DaLincolnJones said:
how did that middle east thing work out...you know the plane load of money..
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Worked fine until Trump killed it - all parties agreed that Iran was complying with the agreement - we'll see how no plan at all works now.

barfo
 
MarAzul said:
Ha! I only gave you first hand experience. Of how it was long before you showed up and all was secure.
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you know the difference between Formosa and Taiwan..?...nah...didn't think so
 
MarAzul said:
What do you think was the result of no longer recognizing Taiwan as independent of China? You know, his one China proclamation.
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He kow towed for the GNP..a billion consumers over 23 million...a cowardly move by Carter..he also warned China against invasion and we started arming Taiwan at a huge profit...we even patrolled their waters....still do at times...Carter just kicked them out of the UN and closed the embassy which he quickly disguised as the American Trade Center in Taipei...Carter was in economic dire straits on the homefront
 
riverman said:
you know the difference between Formosa and Taiwan..?...nah...didn't think so
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Well when I was first there it was Formosa. The last time, one of their Patrol boats fetched me and the injured pilot I had in tow, out of the strait. They took us to their home port on the North end of the island. Patched us up, had to put his arms back in the shoulder sockets, pluck the splinters out of my ass, but couldn't help my hearing, that took about six months or so. They decided not to send us by public transportation to Kaohsiung because they did not think it was save for us given the mood of the locals. My ship was in Kaohsiung Formosa and the Pilots was somewhere off shore probably about 100 miles out, but he could get a hop out from Kaohsiung. I am guessing you were maybe 4 years old then. That was Formosa.

The next time I was to the island it was known as Taiwan, Quemoy had a new name too. This time I was not
with the US Navy, I was the product manager of a Banking system used worldwide. One of my new customers was the Bank of Taiwan, the central Bank of that .... What is the right word, it was no longer independent or Nationalist China. A Province?

So fill me in dude, I like to learn new things.
 
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MarAzul said:
Well when I was first there it was Formosa. The last time, one of their Patrol boats fetched me and the injured pilot I had in tow, out of the strait. They took us to they home port on the North end of the island. Patched us up, had to put his arms back in the shoulder sockets, pluck the splinters out of my ass, but couldn't help my hearing, that took about six months or so. They decided not to send us by public transportation to Kaohsiung because they did not think it was save for us given the mood of the locals. My ship was in Kaohsiung Formosa and the Pilots was somewhere off shore probably about 100 miles out, but he could get a hop out from Kaohsiung. I am guessing you were maybe 4 years old then. That was Formosa.

The next time I was to the island it was known as Taiwan, Quemoy had a new name too. This time I was not
with the US Navy, I was the product manager of a Banking system used worldwide. One of my new customers was the Bank of Taiwan, the central Bank of that .... What is the right word, it was no longer independent or Nationalist China. A Province?

So fill me in dude, I like to learn new things.
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I was first there in 1971....the radiocomstation was in Tienmou...I tried to get stationed there..friendliest Asian country of all I'd visited...it was called the Republic of China....I moved there to teach English at a medical university in 1986...still under KMT control with the ROC tag...Lee Tung Huei was the first native Taiwanese president although he ran under the KMT party....Chiang Kai Shek's son was president when I first got there and he was the first to begin independent reform and democracy....under Chiang Kai Shek dancing or pubs were illegal....Chiang Ching Kuo...his son was an intellectual and democratic promoter....he broke with mainland tradition and married a Russian wife...very progressive guy....when I returned as a civilian the navy was long gone and the comsta in Tienmou was an American visa office....interestingly enough I taught private English lessons to the president of the Bank of Taiwan for many years...he hated his job....wanted to cook for a career but his grades made him a banker and pressure from his family. The Taiwanese didn't think about militarily conquering China at all....they wanted to do it with economics and have become the number one investor in China's industrial base...they say it may take a century but they'll buy China from within ..not with machines of war, but with advanced technology and management
 
MarAzul said:
What the fuck meds do they have you on?
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I have been with my wife to cookouts here in Oregon and parties with our friends...it always amazes me when she meets americans who begin to tell her what the Taiwanese are like or the Chinese....and none of them has ever even been there...everybody thinks they're an expert...and few distinguish between nationality and ethnicity. We just shake our heads and wonder.....used to happen in Taiwan too....locals not knowing I speak Mandarin talking about me from a barstool away....then I speak to the bartender in Mandarin and they get so embarrassed...I've lived in Taipei, Taoyuan, Taichung, Kaoshiung and Hualien...I know more about those places than my wife does...locals there don't move around much..tend to stay in their hometowns or move to Taipei
 
Sorry to derail the thread but to the OP the one thing Trump said when he got elected I got excited about was allowing Taiwanese president Tsai Ying Wen to actually get off the plane in America and he even called her....I had hoped he'd recognize them for the ally that they are and the democratic nation they are...in the end he too shrugged them off to kow tow to China.....my one hope from Trump was never to reach fruition
 
But Trump...
But Clinton...
But Obama....
But Bush....

Jesus Christ you all people arguing like this are why the youth of the nation refused to vote in 16.
But I guess you enjoy getting tuned out.
When it happens, you then don't look at yourself and ask why. You go and call millennials lazy.
 
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