Politics Turning GA, NC, NV, and/or PA into victory (Biden vs Trump, 2020 election!)

[TorturedBlazerFan]

If you knowingly vote(d) for a candidate who shares your morals, your morals are directly tied to that candidate. Same goes for candidates you yourself openly support.

The only time that I feel that this isn't true is when it comes to... holding your nose and voting against the opposing candidate.

I wonder what the statistics are but at least most of my adult life the decision seems to most be, I don't like this one, but I really don't like that other one, so most of the time voting seems to be a vote in opposition to the other party.

I don't think I've met a single person who is excited about Biden or Trump, they just think the other party is worse.

I think both parties suck and are bought off by big businesses and foreign interests, but I don't think that someone who votes for either side in the battle is at fault for what the leaders of the parties do.

 

[CupWizier]

You have that inversed. The logic posted on this very site all the time is if you vote for Trump you're basically complicit in everything Trump does, and you can now be defined entirely by that vote.

You are way over generalizing. There might be some from both sides who may think that way, but I highly doubt it's ALL or even MOST and I think often times it's just words to rile the other side.

By the way, in my 40 plus years of voting I have never felt the person I voted for shares ALL of the same ideals as me or vice versa.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You are way over generalizing. There might be some from both sides who may thin that way, but I highly doubt it's ALL or even MOST and I think often times it's just words to rile the other side.

Sure 'all the time' is generally a hyperbolic statement but it's a fairly common colloquialism. I see the logic used pretty frequently though.

 

[Road Ratt]

but I don't think that someone who votes for either side in the battle is at fault for what the leaders of the parties do.

You vote/show support, for a candidate. They should hold the morals you yourself stand for, if they don't you shouldn't have ever voted for them (Unless holding your nose to vote). What your candidate does while in office should reflect what you yourself believe in. Therefore your morals are directly tied to theirs. As I see it. (I am not certain how a person can vote for someone and then turnaround and say "I take no responsibility for what that candidate does".)

If I may ask, How can they not be?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You vote/show support, for a candidate. They should hold the morals you yourself stand for, if they don't you shouldn't have ever voted for them (Unless holding your nose to vote). What your candidate does while in office should reflect what you yourself believe in. Therefore your morals are directly tied to theirs. As I see it.

If I may ask, How can they not be?

Well I think its pretty easy. There a plethora of reasons someone may lend ‘support’ to someone. Some moral, some fear, some multiple issues, some single issues, some because they see them as enabling their businesses, or their interests.
Many people dont vote because They morally stand behind this persons morals, they vote because they think it is in their own best interest to have that person making laws. Weve seen it with guys like Elon Musk who was kind of a leftist and now seems to be going to the right because he thinks its better for his business, it doesnt have anything to do with ‘morality’ of the right. It’s economics to him.
To say that they should have the same moral principles you do would mean that most or a majority of people are voting on the grounds of morality, which I think some people vote based on morality, but not all.

 

[Road Ratt]

Well I think its pretty easy. There a plethora of reasons someone may lend ‘support’ to someone. Some moral, some fear, some multiple issues, some single issues, some because they see them as enabling their businesses, or their interests.
Many people dont vote because They morally stand behind this persons morals, they vote because they think it is in their own best interest to have that person making laws. Weve seen it with guys like Elon Musk who was kind of a leftist and now seems to be going to the right because he thinks its better for his business, it doesnt have anything to do with ‘morality’ of the right. It’s economics to him.
To say that they should have the same moral principles you do would mean that most or a majority of people are voting on the grounds of morality, which I think some people vote based on morality, but not all.

This literally let's everyone off the hook for who they vote for and what that candidate does. (doesn't seem logical)

So as not to beat a dead horse. I guess I'll agree to disagree.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

This literally let's everyone off the hook for who they vote for and what that candidate does. (doesn't seem logical)

So as not to beat a dead horse. I guess I'll agree to disagree.

I think it's logical to keep nuance and individuality in mind when talking to people about why they would vote for someone rather than say. This person is bad, you voted for them, you're bad too! Some people might be voting for what you would consider morally bad reasons, but not all. My aunt before she died was like an original feminist, and would not vote for anyone who was a man, she made it very clear every time politics came up, the only thing that influenced her voting was the sex of the person she was voting for (she was a college-educated person too) because to her putting more women in government was the only thing important when voting time came around. This doesn't let anyone off the hook, this says when speaking about an individual dig deeper than trying to define them based on a vote.

 

[Road Ratt]

I think it's logical to keep nuance and individuality in mind when talking to people about why they would vote for someone rather than say. This person is bad, you voted for them, you're bad too! Some people might be voting for what you would consider morally bad reasons, but not all. My aunt before she died was like an original feminist, and would not vote for anyone who was a man, she made it very clear every time politics came up, the only thing that influenced her voting was the sex of the person she was voting for (she was a college-educated person too) because to her putting more women in government was the only thing important when voting time came around. This doesn't let anyone off the hook, this says when speaking about an individual dig deeper than trying to define them based on a vote.

You have a vote. You use that vote.

My point is. What you seem to be saying to me is: "I take no responsibility for that vote." That does let everyone off the hook.

I am willing to agree to disagree. If you will, so will I. Other than that we sit here and circle jerk each other off all day.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You have a vote. You use that vote.

My point is. What you seem to be saying to me is: "I take no responsibility for that vote." That does let everyone off the hook.

I am willing to agree to disagree. If you will, so will I. Other than that we sit here and circle jerk each other off all day.

I don't think that's what I'm saying at all.
If I disagree to the terms, does it become a battle of who can last longer...?

 

[Road Ratt]

I don't think that's what I'm saying at all.
If I disagree to the terms, does it become a battle of who can last longer...?

No. But, how do resolve when two people disagree? "Debate" all day? shouting match? guns at high noon?

It seems better to end things when the conversation comes a deadlock. Beyond that we are just wasting each others time.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

No. But, how do resolve when two people disagree? "Debate" all day? shouting match? guns at high noon?

It seems better to end things when the conversation comes a deadlock. Beyond that we are just wasting each others time.

lol, The who can last longer was a joke about the circle jerk.

 

[Road Ratt]

lol, The who can last longer was a joke about the circle jerk.

Couldn't see the joke myself.

I'll leave now, my hand isn't tired.

 

[barfo]

Seems pretty simple to me.

If you vote for someone, you own that vote. Whatever sort of a shitheel your candidate turns out to be is on you. You don't get to say 'oh, I didn't know he was a racist' or 'I knew he was racist but that's not why I voted for him'. On the flip side, whatever good they do is to your credit.

If you don't vote, or lodge a protest vote, then whoever wins, whatever bad the winner does is on you for not doing your part to prevent it. But you don't get to claim any credit for any good they might do.

If you vote for a candidate that has a chance but loses, you have every right to disclaim all responsibility for the winner.

I've been in each of the three categories in my life.

barfo

 

[wizenheimer]

Seems pretty simple to me.

If you vote for someone, you own that vote. Whatever sort of a shitheel your candidate turns out to be is on you. You don't get to say 'oh, I didn't know he was a racist' or 'I knew he was racist but that's not why I voted for him'. On the flip side, whatever good they do is to your credit.

If you don't vote, or lodge a protest vote, then whoever wins, whatever bad the winner does is on you for not doing your part to prevent it. But you don't get to claim any credit for any good they might do.

If you vote for a candidate that has a chance but loses, you have every right to disclaim all responsibility for the winner.

I've been in each of the three categories in my life.

barfo

great post and exactly right.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

great post and exactly right.

You mean, you agree with it. lol

 

[wizenheimer]

You mean, you agree with it. lol

well of course....and I only disagree with bad posts

and, a couple of days ago I ran over a post with my tractor...it was my post though, so I owned it....

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Seems pretty simple to me.

If you vote for someone, you own that vote. Whatever sort of a shitheel your candidate turns out to be is on you. You don't get to say 'oh, I didn't know he was a racist' or 'I knew he was racist but that's not why I voted for him'. On the flip side, whatever good they do is to your credit.

If you don't vote, or lodge a protest vote, then whoever wins, whatever bad the winner does is on you for not doing your part to prevent it. But you don't get to claim any credit for any good they might do.

If you vote for a candidate that has a chance but loses, you have every right to disclaim all responsibility for the winner.

I've been in each of the three categories in my life.

barfo

Alright, cancel humanity.

 

[barfo]

Alright, cancel humanity.

I don't understand what you mean (although, I'll admit the concept sounds good).

barfo

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I don't understand what you mean (although, I'll admit the concept sounds good).

barfo

Just saying pretty much anyone who votes or has a voting history has voted for someone who has ended up doing crappy things, or was a ‘bad’ person. So if everyone must own all that, then that’s fine everyone is complicit in basically everything.
Cancelling by online jargon means you cant get a job, you’ll probably get doxxed, you are basically outcasted, because of your history, politics, world-views etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_shaming#Call-outs_and_cancellation

If were saying everyone’s complicit based off of votes, well we should all be cancelled for one thing or another, the longer you’ve lived the longer your list of bad decisions!

 

[wizenheimer]

another big trump fan:


https://crooksandliars.com/2020/08/white-supremacist-trump-supporter-gets

 

[barfo]

Just saying pretty much anyone who votes or has a voting history has voted for someone who has ended up doing crappy things, or was a ‘bad’ person. So if everyone must own all that, then that’s fine everyone is complicit in basically everything.

Not everything, but you can say everyone is complicit in something. Certainly no politician is all good and no bad, but it's our responsibility to pick the most good /least bad option.

Cancelling by online jargon means you cant get a job, you’ll probably get doxxed, you are basically outcasted, because of your history, politics, world-views etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_shaming#Call-outs_and_cancellation

If were saying everyone’s complicit based off of votes, well we should all be cancelled for one thing or another, the longer you’ve lived the longer your list of bad decisions!

Sure, isn't that kind of accurate? Those of us who have lived the longest have, on average, made the most mistakes.

barfo

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Not everything, but you can say everyone is complicit in something. Certainly no politician is all good and no bad, but it's our responsibility to pick the most good /least bad option.



Sure, isn't that kind of accurate? Those of us who have lived the longest have, on average, made the most mistakes.

barfo

It is accurate yes. Lol

 

[Lanny]

again what you think you see is innacurate.
Just because a person claims bullshit doesnt mean he is angry about it.

but nice try at changing the subject because you and Wizen were judging without educating yourself on the video.
If that's making you angry then that's on you.
Im just keeping it real.
Dont mistake that for anger.

I wasn't trying to change the subject other than I'd like to withdraw from the discussion if you'll allow it.

 

[Lanny]

So when people vote for Biden, are they defined by everything he is or has done? When did voting for someone mean you agree with, condone or should be defined entirely by them?
Cause Bidens got 40+ years of political history and a lot of it frankly sucks.
Im not a republican and I wont be voting for Trump but this logic is either good for all or not good for anyone.

One thing we can say is Biden is not a racist and Trump is a racist. Now you do the math. Who do you want to support, a racist or a non racist?

 

[Lanny]

No. But, how do resolve when two people disagree? "Debate" all day? shouting match? guns at high noon?

It seems better to end things when the conversation comes a deadlock. Beyond that we are just wasting each others time.

Exactly right.

 

[kjironman1]

Unless i'm misreading you, that's exactly what we are agreeing with and its a counter to the above highlighted section from Wizen. This very conflation is used on anyone who is a republican or Voted for Trump.

Nope! Nope! Nope! That only applies to one side of this argument. PERIOD!

Did i need to use green on that?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Id like to just say, Forcing people to feel responsible for a candidates every action or inaction, is a very quick way to get people to not vote, for fear of condemnation the moment the candidate they voted for makes a mistake.

 

[Orion Bailey]

And they all make mistakes.

 

[kjironman1]

And they all make mistakes.

But only the winner actually makes mistakes.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

One thing we can say is Biden is not a racist and Trump is a racist. Now you do the math. Who do you want to support, a racist or a non racist?

Hahahaha, Biden's not a racist, lol. He just keeps saying racist things, and what he actually did in Government has been worse for minorities than just about anything Trump has done.