OT Two police offers shot and killed in Kissimmee Florida

[Cippy91]

Responded to a call and shot. Also...

 

[Sedatedfork]

Very tragic. I'm hoping that this nation can get their head screwed on straight and soon.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Im just gonna start digging a hole and hide out. Ill know its over when the bombing noises cease....

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/evere...ng-matthew-baxter-sam-howard-photos-facebook/

What a violent right-wing Nazi

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/evere...ng-matthew-baxter-sam-howard-photos-facebook/

What a violent right-wing Nazi

He's got mental issues. The guy in the Challenger is completely sane just evil.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Cops are killers, there are a lot of killers that are cops. Do you think cops are so innocent?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm not sure about he other tow shootings but the one focused In the article....

Umm so this guy believes the kkk is infiltrating the police force. He then ambushes a couple of cops who happen to be black and Hispanic.
Wouldn't the better option be to infiltrate the police force with minorities that understand the conditions we are in? But instead he kills two officers hat more than likely are on his side of things.

I swear people are just losing it and following others that are losing it. I'm thinking of getting my concealed weapons permit. Not to carry all the time, but long road trips, etc...

 

[Cippy91]

Cops are killers, there are a lot of killers that are cops. Do you think cops are so innocent?

Well shit it seems like in this case they were responding to a call and ambushed but hey if you wanna continue the idea that all cops are evil that's cool, spread the hate brother

 

[Cippy91]

I'm not sure about he other tow shootings but the one focused In the article....

Umm so this guy believes the kkk is infiltrating the police force. He then ambushes a couple of cops who happen to be black and Hispanic.
Wouldn't the better option be to infiltrate the police force with minorities that understand the conditions we are in? But instead he kills two officers hat more than likely are on his side of things.

I swear people are just losing it and following others that are losing it. I'm thinking of getting my concealed weapons permit. Not to carry all the time, but long road trips, etc...

No different than the Dallas shooting that happened. Then some shootings after that. People are crazy man and a lot of people love this behavior, they think all cops are the worst but these are the same people who couldn't step foot in a cops shoes for a day. They refuse to see sides

 

[Orion Bailey]

Cops are killers, there are a lot of killers that are cops. Do you think cops are so innocent?

Man, See again with the generalizing thought process of sooo many.
Yes.. there are some cops that are killers. acknowledged evil killers. Probably maybe 1% of all cops. Yes there are some racist cops. Probably between 5%-50% depending on your geographic location.
But if we are ever to get through this, we have got to stop generalizing. Not all cops are killers. I know one first hand here. Guitar player in a locally successful and prominent regional metal band. Dude is cool as hell. White male.

When I was too young to remember my age, but it was before school, I was in the backseat with my mother driving and she got pulled over. We didn't have our seat belts on but it wasn't yet a law. We are talking 76-77'? She had a boyfriend that was constantly F the police and spent half his life in Salem. We were on our way to see him if I remember correctly, though we turned around after....
Anyhow, she was pulled over for a broken tail light and had a suspended license for an unpaid speeding ticket.
She was gonna go to jail and I was gonna go... hell if I know.
The cop saw the situation, and let her go with the promise that she would take me home and read me this short book/magazine he gave her.
When we got home, she sat me down and read it to me. It had to do with wearing your seat belt and how important it was.
I never forgot the book, the moment and the many social/society lessons learned. Young innocent minds can see the truth more often than our jaded adult minds.

ohhh by the way....

The cop was a black male.

Right then I subconsciously knew I could never judge any group or any sect as a whole and its all about the individual. Whether they are left wing, right wing, cops, conservative, liberal, antifa, kkk, black lives matters, etc, etc, etc.

There will always be ignorant and idiotic fools within any gathering containing some form of agenda, whether it be law enforcement, or belief of a way of life. But we still cannot judge them as a whole based off of the actions of a few. We can put pressure on them to condemn their own, but not all individuals in any group think exactly the same.

No different than the Dallas shooting that happened. Then some shootings after that. People are crazy man and a lot of people love this behavior, they think all cops are the worst but these are the same people who couldn't step foot in a cops shoes for a day. They refuse to see sides

It's really concerning how many people are so pro anarchy and want this to continue to spread until civil war breaks out.... But it wont be civil war, it will be total chaos, because it isn't red vs blue. There are several sects all with their own agendas, and then there will be the military/national guard.
Unfortunately, our own freedoms may be the very death of us. Instead of respecting those freedoms we are all too often abusing those freedoms...(There is no law against being rude and cutting in line, so I can do it, etc.).
Going to extremes and as lines of respect are being crossed all over the place and it almost always turns to violence. The lack of respect for the fellow American to have a different mindset within this plural society is gonna bring us all down. In the end, when push comes to shove, those of us who know history and what we were originally fighting for when our ancestors migrated here(not what they did after they arrived and won independence) we will fight for those same freedoms. If we don't have freedom of the press and freedom of speech we will dive into a dark time... very dark time...and i mean the world. not just America.
We led the world in the idea of our governments providing full disclosure and the people have a say in what they do. Never before has the world seen such a successful government that wasn't a dictatorship of some form. These freedoms help us maintain knowledge of events and if the voices that feed them to us, whether jaded or not, are muffled... yeah. dark times indeed. Civil war with our enemies jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[Cippy91]

Man, See again with the generalizing thought process of sooo many.
Yes.. there are some cops that are killers. acknowledged evil killers. Probably maybe 1% of all cops. Yes there are some racist cops. Probably between 5%-50% depending on your geographic location.
But if we are ever to get through this, we have got to stop generalizing. Not all cops are killers. I know one first hand here. Guitar player in a locally successful and prominent regional metal band. Dude is cool as hell. White male.

When I was too young to remember my age, but it was before school, I was in the backseat with my mother driving and she got pulled over. We didn't have our seat belts on but it wasn't yet a law. We are talking 76-77'? She had a boyfriend that was constantly F the police and spent half his life in Salem. We were on our way to see him if I remember correctly, though we turned around after....
Anyhow, she was pulled over for a broken tail light and had a suspended license for an unpaid speeding ticket.
She was gonna go to jail and I was gonna go... hell if I know.
The cop saw the situation, and let her go with the promise that she would take me home and read me this short book/magazine he gave her.
When we got home, she sat me down and read it to me. It had to do with wearing your seat belt and how important it was.
I never forgot the book, the moment and the many social/society lessons learned. Young innocent minds can see the truth more often than our jaded adult minds.

ohhh by the way....

The cop was a black male.

Right then I subconsciously knew I could never judge any group or any sect as a whole and its all about the individual. Whether they are left wing, right wing, cops, conservative, liberal, antifa, kkk, black lives matters, etc, etc, etc.

There will always be ignorant and idiotic fools within any gathering containing some form of agenda, whether it be law enforcement, or belief of a way of life. But we still cannot judge them as a whole based off of the actions of a few. We can put pressure on them to condemn their own, but not all individuals in any group think exactly the same.



It's really concerning how many people are so pro anarchy and want this to continue to spread until civil war breaks out.... But it wont be civil war, it will be total chaos, because it isn't red vs blue. There are several sects all with their own agendas, and then there will be the military/national guard.
Unfortunately, our own freedoms may be the very death of us. Instead of respecting those freedoms we are all too often abusing those freedoms...(There is no law against being rude and cutting in line, so I can do it, etc.).
Going to extremes and as lines of respect are being crossed all over the place and it almost always turns to violence. The lack of respect for the fellow American to have a different mindset within this plural society is gonna bring us all down. In the end, when push comes to shove, those of us who know history and what we were originally fighting for when our ancestors migrated here(not what they did after they arrived and won independence) we will fight for those same freedoms. If we don't have freedom of the press and freedom of speech we will dive into a dark time... very dark time...and i mean the world. not just America.
We led the world in the idea of our governments providing full disclosure and the people have a say in what they do. Never before has the world seen such a successful government that wasn't a dictatorship of some form. These freedoms help us maintain knowledge of events and if the voices that feed them to us, whether jaded or not, are muffled... yeah. dark times indeed. Civil war with our enemies jumping on the bandwagon.

basically summed up as what I believe as well...

 

[stampedehero]

This is tragic. They have families and are feel pain just like you and me.

 

[Orion Bailey]

basically summed up as what I believe as well...

The good cops are in a really bad spot. Almost a no win situation other than they should help to call out the bad cops they know of. But other than that, man. What do you do and even doing that could have serious repercussions.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

basically summed up as what I believe as well...

The problem is that Joe even spoke in stereotypes but what are they supposed to do? Every guy with a 65 Impala on 13inch rims isn't packing a concealed weapon. The percentage of people in that situation carrying would seem higher than the same situation using a brand new stock Hyundai Elantra.

You're not supposed to think that way but if you're a cop it is a lot harder because your life depends on being aware of every situation.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Anyone of any race with a face tattoo is getting extra attention from me if I pull them over. Them's the breaks.

 

[Minstrel]

The good cops are in a really bad spot. Almost a no win situation other than they should help to call out the bad cops they know of. But other than that, man. What do you do and even doing that could have serious repercussions.

Yeah, the good cops (whom I have no doubts make up the vast majority of the force) need to call out the bad cops, and the police force in general needs to stop automatically closing ranks around any policeman or policewoman that comes under fire for a shooting or a framing. The vibe the police force gives off, IMO, is that every cop is innocent even before the facts are known. There needs to be real accountability and a real desire to drum out the bad cops as quickly as possible. After all, the bad cops are getting the good cops killed.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The problem is that Joe even spoke in stereotypes but what are they supposed to do? Every guy with a 65 Impala on 13inch rims isn't packing a concealed weapon. The percentage of people in that situation carrying would seem higher than the same situation using a brand new stock Hyundai Elantra.

You're not supposed to think that way but if you're a cop it is a lot harder because your life depends on being aware of every situation.

Yep, I wasn't a fan of the whole racial profiling argument in the early 90's was it? But it shouldn't be racially, it should be culturally profiling. If you chose to dress and hang with those, in areas of high crime, then you will be profiled as such. Black, White, Hispanic, etc. It's all about cultures. Within the gang and criminal world there is absolutely a culture of dress and behavior that should be profiled. No it wont keep a cop 100% safe and they may have it wrong once in a while, but as long as they treat all people with respect and just be aware of the individuals cultural behavior for safety concerns, I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Cippy91]

The problem is that Joe even spoke in stereotypes but what are they supposed to do? Every guy with a 65 Impala on 13inch rims isn't packing a concealed weapon. The percentage of people in that situation carrying would seem higher than the same situation using a brand new stock Hyundai Elantra.

You're not supposed to think that way but if you're a cop it is a lot harder because your life depends on being aware of every situation.

Well I mean it's instinct right? they don't mean to racial profile I don't think but even you and I know the statistics coming out of southside chicago and it's like hey man, fuck that place I am not going there. Or maybe even Detroit or Baltimore. The statistics are very real and they reflect on the people there. Not saying everybody in those areas are bad but lets face it, most of them are raised in a shitty environment, we don't know what kind of anger they have, poor education, etc. Mostly black. That's not racism at that point, these are real numbers and real stereotypes. I don't agree with racial profiling but how do you not in a high crime area that is mostly black or latino? it's impossible. The issue is most normal people don't think this way. It's logic though. They wanna act like being a cop is so easy, well okay go do it. They wouldn't last a day in the bad areas, they would shit themselves. On top of that imagine having a family and kids whether you are a black or white cop because black cops are also endangered just for wearing that uniform. You wanna go home to your kids. If you are in a shit neighborhood, some guy reaches in his pocket when you tell him not to, sorry but I would probably drop him too. I am not taking this chance in 2017 where these two officers got called to a scene then ambushed or last year with the dallas officers. Fuck that I am going home to my family and I promise you anybody else in that scenario would do the same, but everybody is an expert now, "why didn't they just taze him". Well tazing somebody doesn't work all the time, I have seen it on video.. Unfortunately nobody wants to view the other side, it's just fuck cops and they are all racist pigs. That's wrong.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yeah, the good cops (whom I have no doubts make up the vast majority of the force) need to call out the bad cops, and the police force in general needs to stop automatically closing ranks around any policeman or policewoman that comes under fire for a shooting or a framing. The vibe the police force gives off, IMO, is that every cop is innocent even before the facts are known. There needs to be real accountability and a real desire to drum out the bad cops as quickly as possible. After all, the bad cops are getting the good cops killed.

Sounds like the extreme sides of our political parties too huh? Holding the bad once around them accountable is what the parties need to do.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I agree with both of you but liberals want a fantasy land where every cop risks their life to be 100 percent fair. It ain't happening.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I agree with both of you but liberals want a fantasy land where every cop risks their life to be 100 percent fair. It ain't happening.

You cant think fair when playing it safe as a peace officer, but you must act fair.

 

[Cippy91]

Yep, I wasn't a fan of the whole racial profiling argument in the early 90's was it? But it shouldn't be racially, it should be culturally profiling. If you chose to dress and hang with those, in areas of high crime, then you will be profiled as such. Black, White, Hispanic, etc. It's all about cultures. Within the gang and criminal world there is absolutely a culture of dress and behavior that should be profiled. No it wont keep a cop 100% safe and they may have it wrong once in a while, but as long as they treat all people with respect and just be aware of the individuals cultural behavior for safety concerns, I see nothing wrong with that.

You know whats funny, I have dealt with two cops one good and one bad on one trip. One of my rear lights was out and I knew that but I wanted to see this movie so yes of course knowing I could get pulled over I would be one of the liars, "yeah I didn't know it was out officer, sorry" lol. Anyways I am driving to Clackamas from Damascus and get pulled over by a damascus cop. One of the nicest cops I ever met. Short pull over, even asked what movie I was saying and then my girlfriend and I were out. On the way back, heading through Clackamas we get pulled over by shit cop. He pulled me over for the same thing, I let him know a cop prior told me about it and that's that. Well this cop proceeded to keep me around an extra 30 minutes for whatever reason letting me know he could write me up if he really wanted to. I was being polite the whole time, he even tried to get me on my tinted windows which I knew weren't illegal because I had them checked when I got the car to make sure it was legal. Then he saw my name and asked what school my dad went to. Shit got weird so I was assuming my dad must of really fucked him up in football back in his high school days. It was the perfect good cop bad cop thing. In a nice place too. Clackamas. He was just an asshole on a power trip. That didn't make me go man fuck cops because I know better. There are very good cops and a few bad ones.

 

[Cippy91]

I agree with both of you but liberals want a fantasy land where every cop risks their life to be 100 percent fair. It ain't happening.

and it's a problem because I consider myself liberal but now the idea of liberal is far left. That's how bad they fucked that up. Most actual liberals are the most reasonable type of people. It's exactly what they want, a fantasy land. They don't face the real world or logic head on, it's just their idea of it and it's honestly crazy some of the fantasy land ideas I have heard and you know how I know these ideas are bullshit? they all started not that long ago. I remember just 10 years ago, nobody was saying most of this shit now it's become a standard thing

 

[Orion Bailey]

You know whats funny, I have dealt with two cops one good and one bad on one trip. One of my rear lights was out and I knew that but I wanted to see this movie so yes of course knowing I could get pulled over I would be one of the liars, "yeah I didn't know it was out officer, sorry" lol. Anyways I am driving to Clackamas from Damascus and get pulled over by a damascus cop. One of the nicest cops I ever met. Short pull over, even asked what movie I was saying and then my girlfriend and I were out. On the way back, heading through Clackamas we get pulled over by shit cop. He pulled me over for the same thing, I let him know a cop prior told me about it and that's that. Well this cop proceeded to keep me around an extra 30 minutes for whatever reason letting me know he could write me up if he really wanted to. I was being polite the whole time, he even tried to get me on my tinted windows which I knew weren't illegal because I had them checked when I got the car to make sure it was legal. Then he saw my name and asked what school my dad went to. Shit got weird so I was assuming my dad must of really fucked him up in football back in his high school days. It was the perfect good cop bad cop thing. In a nice place too. Clackamas. He was just an asshole on a power trip. That didn't make me go man fuck cops because I know better. There are very good cops and a few bad ones.

Yep. everything is all about the individual.
Ive had my best friend blatantly set up by a cop that also caused me a shit load of issues up in Washington.
Ive also been pulled over with that same friend when he was the only one over 21(I was driving) with open containers in the car and our girls all drinking underage, and they dumped our alcohol out in front of us and told us to go home and if they saw us coming back from the party we were heading to, they would pull us over and take us in.

Until we treat all individuals with respect, no matter their race, heritage, occupation... until they prove themselves not worthy of respect, we are just gonna keep going around and around in these violent circles.
Peat and repeat...

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Thoughts and prayers.

 

[Minstrel]

I agree with both of you but liberals want a fantasy land where every cop risks their life to be 100 percent fair. It ain't happening.

I'm not suggesting that shootings where it was ambiguous and the cop had reasonable cause to believe he or she was in danger should be viewed as murder. But in cases where it was clear that there was no danger to the cop and they shoot anyway, fairness isn't on the table, but applying laws about murder and manslaughter is completely reasonable, IMO.

I understand that cops have a tough and dangerous job and they should get some benefit of the doubt--but not to the point that laws don't apply to them.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I'm not suggesting that shootings where it was ambiguous and the cop had reasonable cause to believe he or she was in danger should be viewed as murder. But in cases where it was clear that there was no danger to the cop and they shoot anyway, fairness isn't on the table, but applying laws about murder and manslaughter is completely reasonable, IMO.

I understand that cops have a tough and dangerous job and they should get some benefit of the doubt--but not to the point that laws don't apply to them.

Totally agree. I've never been a cop defender. That one that shot the old black guy in the back while he slowly jogged away should get life. I think he took a plea though, can't remember.

I want them to have body cameras that record at all times. That opens a huge can of worms though. There is no easy solution.

 

[dead247]

Cops are killers, there are a lot of killers that are cops. Do you think cops are so innocent?

Please tell me you're trolling and that you're not that stupid...

 

[Cippy91]

Totally agree. I've never been a cop defender. That one that shot the old black guy in the back while he slowly jogged away should get life. I think he took a plea though, can't remember.

I want them to have body cameras that record at all times. That opens a huge can of worms though. There is no easy solution.

I also remember that one, was bad. I also think people need to get the full story on some of these cases unless there was clear video of it or a shit load of witnesses. Another thing people do is when a black person is killed by police, it's automatically assumed because of race. While there are cases where it was wrong, some of these are still spread today like it was unjust when the actual facts are a bit different. Michael brown for example. Never had his hands up, that was made up for a clever chant. Clear footage of him strong arming a man and stealing cigs before he got shot, as if people believe a guy of that character could just be innocent. Witnesses went up and down with the case until they started telling the truth. Another one is the Trayvon Martin case. That just happened because two stupid people made dumb decisions. George zimmerman was a paranoid guy and trayvon actually was the one to start hitting him, well george zimmerman carried a firearm and shot him. That was just an extremely unfortunate situation where both could of dealt with that a better way. However there are cases that show was unjust such as Freddie grey or eric garner. The dude named philando I believe who got shot and his girlfriend captured it. I also tend to believe there is no evidence of these being racist cops that did these things at all, if anything they were scared and unfit to be cops and reacting off fear but you know everything is racist these days

 

[Cippy91]

Also, it's pretty common protocol that anybody with a knife approaching an officer gets shot. I mean you are just an idiot today if you don't comply. You should know no matter what color if you go reaching for something, you will most likely get shot. I have seen many of these videos and a lot of them also being white people. The issue is this country race baits all the fucking time so they use the black victims to further this agenda that police are somehow hunting black dudes which isn't true at all.