Two way contracts

[Boob-No-More]

Kemp, who outplayed Karl Malone and Barkley every time he played them, was the PF of the half-decade, yet went only 17th, way higher than forecast.

http://bkref.com/tiny/FoAEi

In 43 regular season meetings, Shawn Kemp never out scored Karl Malone a single time (he tied him once):



He fared slightly better in the playoffs, where he outscored Malone 3 times in 17 games:



I'm not even going to bother checking the Kemp-Barkley head-to-head match ups as you are obviously just making stuff up.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

House might not be a bad guy for a 2-way contract even though I think one of those 2 spots should definitely be a big man.

One should be a wing and one should be a big. I know I know best players available but with Harkless’ injury and the general state of our front court, I think it’d be smart to grab some depth using the two ways.

My question is could a team sign a two way guy, have him spend 40 days, or whatever the max is, with the team before being released and doing it all over again with somebody else? Is there a deadline for signing two way guys?

 

[Scalma]

One should be a wing and one should be a big. I know I know best players available but with Harkless’ injury and the general state of our front court, I think it’d be smart to grab some depth using the two ways.

My question is could a team sign a two way guy, have him spend 40 days, or whatever the max is, with the team before being released and doing it all over again with somebody else? Is there a deadline for signing two way guys?

Nevermind. Found it. January 15. So we could technically sign someone now and have them spend 45 days with the team before releasing them and doing it with someone else. The problem is days are prorated so we wouldn’t have 45 days with the next guy. Still, a good way to build depth. Days spent with parent club before g league training camp begins, and after g league season concludes also wouldn’t count towards the 45 days.

 

[jlprk]

In 86 regular season meetings, Shawn Kemp never out scored Karl Malone a single time (he tied him once):

He fared slightly better in the playoffs, where he outscored Malone 3 times in 34 games:

I'm not even going to bother checking the Kemp-Barkley head-to-head match ups as you are obviously just making stuff up.

As I've told you many times over the years, Kemp was always in foul trouble (because he skipped college, then got defenseless coaching from Karl). His minutes were lowered by sitting on the bench. Karl would ration his minutes, saving him for when it mattered. Those stats you see for Kemp's opponents included many minutes they played while Kemp sat on the bench. I watched the minutes Kemp played against each opponent like Malone, and it was no contest. Talkative Barkley admits it. Malone's the strong silent type and doesn't talk about it.

 

[hoopsjock]

As I've told you many times over the years, Kemp was always in foul trouble (because he skipped college, then got defenseless coaching from Karl). His minutes per game were always low, sitting on the bench. Karl would ration his minutes, saving him for when it mattered. Those stats you see for Kemp's opponents included many minutes played while Kemp sat on the bench. I watched the minutes Kemp played against each opponent like Malone, and it was no contest. Talkative Barkley admits it. Malone's the strong silent type and doesn't talk about it.

LMAO! Spin, spin, spin!

 

[jlprk]

LMAO! Spin, spin, spin!

Weird. Did you watch all his games like I did?

 

[hoopsjock]

Weird. Did you watch all his games like I did?

Your memory is failing you! I watched a ton of Sonics games, but no not every single one. You are lying if you say you did because not all the games were televised back then.

 

[Scalma]

As I've told you many times over the years, Kemp was always in foul trouble (because he skipped college, then got defenseless coaching from Karl). His minutes were lowered by sitting on the bench. Karl would ration his minutes, saving him for when it mattered. Those stats you see for Kemp's opponents included many minutes they played while Kemp sat on the bench. I watched the minutes Kemp played against each opponent like Malone, and it was no contest. Talkative Barkley admits it. Malone's the strong silent type and doesn't talk about it.

Kemp also didn’t have the support at center that Malone did. The offense in Utah ran through Malone. He had more shots. In Seattle it was more balanced. Malone had better stats, but context matters. Kemp was the better all around player in his prime, but consistency matters as well so I’d probably give it to Malone.

 

[Boob-No-More]

As I've told you many times over the years, Kemp was always in foul trouble (because he skipped college, then got defenseless coaching from Karl). His minutes were lowered by sitting on the bench. Karl would ration his minutes, saving him for when it mattered. Those stats you see for Kemp's opponents included many minutes they played while Kemp sat on the bench. I watched the minutes Kemp played against each opponent like Malone, and it was no contest. Talkative Barkley admits it. Malone's the strong silent type and doesn't talk about it.

Kemp was in foul trouble a lot against Malone. At least that part you remember correctly, but only because he couldn't stop The Mailman any other way. He fouled out 9 times in 43 regular season match-ups. Malone never fouled out once in those 43 games, in spite of playing more minutes. Probably because he didn't need to foul Kemp to stop him.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Kemp also didn’t have the support at center that Malone did. The offense in Utah ran through Malone. He had more shots. In Seattle it was more balanced. Malone had better stats, but context matters. Kemp was the better all around player in his prime, but consistency matters as well so I’d probably give it to Malone.

Kemp (before he got fat) did two things better than Malone - dunk and block shots. In most stats, Malone's career averages, for a 19 year career, were better than Kemp's best single season.

BNM

 

[jlprk]

Your memory is failing you! I watched a ton of Sonics games, but no not every single one. You are lying if you say you did because not all the games were televised back then.

I either watched or listened to them all. (I mean, I probably missed a couple of games per season, but you know what I mean.)(Since you're calling me a liar, no use appealing to your basic human common sense here, since you view me as the enemy.)

Kemp was in foul trouble a lot against Malone. At least that part you remember correctly, but only because he couldn't stop The Mailman any other way. He fouled out 9 times in 43 regular season match-ups. Malone never fouled out once in those 43 games, in spite of playing more minutes. Probably because he didn't need to foul Kemp to stop him.

Kemp was simply spectacular, a highlight film every night (which piled up the fouls against every team, not just the Jazz). Compared to Kemp, Malone just plodded along, receiving passes from Stockton (10 times the playmaker Payton was).

Kemp (before he got fat) did two things better than Malone - dunk and block shots. In most stats, Malone's career averages, for a 19 year career, were better than Kemp's best single season.

I answered that previously. You're repeating yourself. (i.e. to compare properly, you'd need Malone's stats while Kemp was on the floor)

 

[Scalma]

Kemp (before he got fat) did two things better than Malone - dunk and block shots. In most stats, Malone's career averages, for a 19 year career, were better than Kemp's best single season.

BNM

Kemp in his prime was also a better rebounder, and a more versatile defender. If his usage was higher the points would’ve been similar as well. Not his fault Seattle was more balanced.

 

[jlprk]

Hoopsjock and Boob are bored waiting for the game. For perspective, here's the innocent little post that started all this. (The thread is about 2-way players...remember?)

When he decides on two-way players, I hope Olshey has more imagination than to just sign Oliver and Onnanukuku. Whitsitt used to make surprise finds, not just pursue big names (e.g. Shawn Kemp, George Karl, Kevin Calabro). Come on, Olshey, surprise us with an underrated find we've never heard of who makes good.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I either watched or listened to them all. (I mean, I probably missed a couple of games per season, but you know what I mean.)(Since you're calling me a liar, no use appealing to your basic human common sense here, since you view me as the enemy.)



Kemp was simply spectacular, a highlight film every night (which piled up the fouls against every team, not just the Jazz). Compared to Kemp, Malone just plodded along, receiving passes from Stockton (10 times the playmaker Payton was).



I answered that previously. You're repeating yourself. (i.e. to compare properly, you'd need Malone's stats while Kemp was on the floor)

My two cents and Im ‘young’ enough that I dont have super clear memories of Kemp althought I definitely remember him. Was that he was definitely a more explosive athlete than Malone, but wasnt as consistant or have the same range as Malone either. I think you’re under-rating Payton slightly but Stockton was in rarified air in terms of passing and setting up his team mates. Stockton was no doubt in my mind better than Payton.

Malone and Kemp are more even than people think in terms of talent and raw ability, but obviously I dont think its questionable Id rather have Malones career.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Kemp in his prime was also a better rebounder, and a more versatile defender. If his usage was higher the points would’ve been similar as well. Not his fault Seattle was more balanced.

Sometimes usage going up makes efficiency go down.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I answered that previously. You're repeating yourself. (i.e. to compare properly, you'd need Malone's stats while Kemp was on the floor)

What does it matter? Kemp couldn't stay on the floor because he couldn't guard Malone without fouling him. You are the one who brought this up.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

What does it matter? Kemp couldn't stay on the floor because he couldn't guard Malone without fouling him. You are the one who brought this up.

BNM

Non sense. Kemp dominated Malone in the 96 playoffs, and that’s just off the top of my head.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Kemp in his prime was also a better rebounder, and a more versatile defender. If his usage was higher the points would’ve been similar as well. Not his fault Seattle was more balanced.

Kemp averaged 20 ppg once in his career, barely, in CLE. Malone did it 17 times.

Keep in mind USG% doesn't just include FGA, it also includes assists and Malone was > 2x the passer Kemp was. Malone's career average was 3.6 apg. Kemp's was 1.6.

if you want to normalize by pts/100 possessions to level the playing field, Malone's career average, over 19 seasons was 34.4 pts/100 possessions. Kemp's career best was 32.5 pts/100 possessions. Kemp topped 30 pts/100 possessions twice in his carer. Malone topped 30 pts/100 possessions 13 times and topped 40 pts/100 possessions twice. Malone was a more versatile, more consistent, more efficient scorer, even after normalizing for Kemp's fewer shot attempts.

If Kemp was such a great defender, why did he struggle with foul trouble his entire career. He led the league in personal fouls three times and topped 300 PFs seven times. Malone, in spite of playing a lot more minutes and having a much longer career, only topped 300 PFs one time in his 19-year career.

Peak Malone was better than peak Kemp, and it wasn't really that close. At his peak, Kemp waas a guy who could get you 19 pts and 10 reb. At his peak, Malone was a guy you could count on for 27 points and 11 reb. And, Malone's peak was much longer than Kemp's.

Career wise, there is just no comparison. You're talking about a guy who scored over 36,000 points vs. a guy who scored 15,000 A guy who averaged 25.1 ppg, 10.1 rpg and 3.6 apg for 19 years vs. a guy who averaged 14.6 ppg, 8.4 rpg and 1.6 apg for 14 seasons.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Non sense. Kemp dominated Malone in the 96 playoffs, and that’s just off the top of my head.

Malone averaged 27/11.6/5.1 in that series. SEA won because they had a better team.

Look at their career head-to-head averages. One good series by Kemp doesn't negate the fact that Malone dominated him for years.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

Malone averaged 27/11.6/5.1 in that series. SEA won because they had a better team.

Look at their career head-to-head averages. One good series by Kemp doesn't negate the fact that Malone dominated him for years.

BNM

Ok now post how many shots it took for him to average those points, specifically game 7. Your cherry picking of stats is boring. Kemp shot 70% that series lmaoooo domination.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Ok now post how many shots it took for him to average those points, specifically game 7. Your cherry picking of stats is boring. Kemp shot 70% that series lmaoooo domination.

Remember how this all started:

Kemp, who outplayed Karl Malone and Barkley every time he played them

You're cherry picking one series. One series <> every time he played them:

Malone scored better than his career average (25.1 ppg) against Kemp. Kemp scored below his career average (14.6 ppg) against Malone.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

Anyways back on topic

Any predictions

 

[Boob-No-More]

Anyways back on topic

Any predictions

Already made mine: Deyonta Davis:

Another MEM cast off. Fills a position of need. Could be Baldwin IV 2.0.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

Already made mine: Deyonta Davis:



BNM

Unlikely. Warriors signed him to an exhibit 10 contract. He’ll get a bonus to go play for their g league team, assuming he doesn’t sign a two way with them first.

 

[Scalma]

My hope is the bucks give up on DJ Wilson and we get him on a two way.

My expectation is some combination of the three training camp guys. Yay.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

lol, Blazer Fans thinking that a 2-way contract means... "Should we sign prime Kemp or prime Malone"

 

[Scalma]

Looks like it won’t be any of these guys. Neil has exceeded my expectations.

 

[Scalma]

Bruno Caboclo got cut. His upside has always intrigued me, and has done well in the g league. Wouldn’t be the worst project

 

[Boob-No-More]

Bruno Caboclo got cut. His upside has always intrigued me, and has done well in the g league. Wouldn’t be the worst project

Not 2-way eligible.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

Not 2-way eligible.

BNM

Yes he is.